or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Source Gear › Sony NWZ-ZX1 - 35th Walkman Anniversary model
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Sony NWZ-ZX1 - 35th Walkman Anniversary model - Page 53

post #781 of 7455
Well I was one of the first who reported preordering one but I would be lying if I told you I don't have any doubt on the 15mw per channel specs. Won't debate of 15mw is meager or sufficient or ample, but in my experience more power had always give me better sound with most if not all iems. Quite interestingly my Sony xba4 was an exception where it sounded horrible with my hm901 as compared to a clip zip. It has 8ohm OI and may somewhat reflect Sony's design philosophy towards portables and what is sufficient power.

Hope it would sound great, and I should be able listen to the F880 soon to help decide if I would go through or cancel my preorder (in case either F880 impressed so much that I pick it OVER the Z, or it underwhelmed so much that I would just move on). After my initial excitement settled I am finding it a bit hard to imagine how much improved the zx1 can be over f880 given the very similar spec with some component upgrades. Storage is an issue with the F, but paying a lot more for just the extra 64gb and a maxxed out modded version don't really seems logical to me. But alas since when I had been logical with any headfi purchase! Lol biggrin.gif
post #782 of 7455
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginalb View Post
 

No, it's not weak, actually. My Clip+ (right around the same output power) drives everything I have used with them, including my AKG's, which despite their published specs, are much harder to drive than anything else I own. . . .

 

Huh?

 

I'd tried pairing my Clip+ with my Shure SRH840. The 840 isn't particularly difficult to drive, and I was able to listen at high volumes. But it didn't matter: the audio simply didn't sound right, despite being 16/44.1. Music seemed muffled, veiled, and distorted in ways that were often readily apparent. I endured many weeks with the Clip+/SRH840 combination, finally giving up and shoving the Clip+ onto a secluded corner of my desk.

 

Sure, I'll bet the Clip+ can drive plenty of headphones at good volumes. So what?

 

~Brian

post #783 of 7455
I found the Clip Zip to sound anything but muffled and veiled even with an AKG K 701. That's the first time I've ever heard someone say that for the Clip series.

So-called "properly driving" the K 701 with a more suitable amp, the difference isn't night and day either.
post #784 of 7455
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

I found the Clip Zip to sound anything but muffled and veiled even with an AKG K 701. That's the first time I've ever heard someone say that for the Clip series.

 

I was surprised, too. I kept thinking, "If this is what a good DAP sounds like, I'd hate to hear an average DAP!" Eventually I concluded that the Clip+ simply couldn't power my headphones properly. I suppose it's possible my unit was defective, but I don't think so.

 

~Brian

post #785 of 7455
Have a little faith in Sony, im sure they know what they are doing!
post #786 of 7455

Regarding low impedance CIEMs, this is an interesting video of Jerry Harvey, discussing his design ethos with the upcoming 'Roxanne':

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_G62IGzJE0&feature=youtu.be&t=1m28s

post #787 of 7455
Is F880 a good candidate to work as a source transport PHA-2?
post #788 of 7455

Away for a couple of months, and this comes up!!

After years of contacting Sony (emails , calls and letters) and linking them to headfi to read and see what people want, they at last started listing!!!

 

128GB is good , but Sony has to to be Sony, and always keep us wanting more from them.

 

Did anyone listen to it or compare it????


Edited by turokrocks - 10/22/13 at 12:13am
post #789 of 7455
Quote:
Originally Posted by turokrocks View Post
 

Away for a couple on months, and this comes up!!

After years of contacting Sony (emails , calls and letters) and linking them to headfi to read and see what people want, they at last started listing!!!

 

128GB is good , but Sony has to to be Sony, and always keep us wanting more from them.

 

Did anyone listen to it or compare it????

 

What!?!? Your best friend here has spent considerable effort in making my way to the Ginza Sony store - stopping by for coffee along the way, flirting with the Sony sales staff of the Xperia and Digital Camera showrooms whilst oiling my way to the Walkman section. Then having line up, making more small talk to kill time, just for a quick 5 min listening session. Then rush to the closest Starbucks, grabbing a cup of coffee, and some phone numbers along the way just to hop onto their free WiFi to share the NW-ZX1 impressions with the audience here.

 

And you missed my initial impressions post!!??

post #790 of 7455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

 

Yes, it is weak compared to many other DAPs.

 

 

 

I'm in Europe, and the volume cap annoys me, too. Brussels should not be forcing volume caps on consumer devices. I understand their intentions to protect consumers' hearing, but a default (and user-removable) software setting would suffice, rather than treating consumers like juveniles incapable of choosing their own listening levels. One can still buy a car in Europe that will go more than double the speed limit, and that's an infinitely more dangerous proposition than a loud DAP.

 

 

 

Yes, but both of those are single dynamic drivers.

 

They are entirely different to the reactive low-impedance loads often presented by multi-BA CIEMs. Whilst I acknowledge that the mass-market ventures relatively rarely into BA territory, BA IEMs are becoming increasingly common, as demonstrated by Sony themselves, and there is Etymotic, Klipsch, UE Triple-fi 10, Shure etc.  And the NW-ZX1 is not mass-market. It's seeking to straddle the gap between mass-market and audiophile, and anyone willing to drop 700 bucks on a DAP, and to feed it with Hi-Rez audio files, has a substantially above-average likelihood of exploring above-average IEM / CIEM offerings, many of which are increasingly based upon balanced armature designs.

 

 

 

Why is it that on Head-fi, so many members (even experienced ones like yourself) fail, time & again, to understand that high current delivery is not only required for high-impedance cans?

 

Multi-BA CIEMs quite often have low impedance, with notable dips, at certain frequencies, to very low impedance. This places greater demand upon current delivery.

 

 

 

See above.

 

 

 

Really? I wonder who here is really the one underestimating consumers in Japan. Fitear (as just one example) is extremely popular in Japan. Their products are high-end and whilst I don't claim to know the exact impedance curves of their CIEMs, they are multi-BA designs, so there is a fair chance that they may be wired such that they present a relatively low impedance load to an amp stage.

 

No one is saying that 15mw cannot drive a CIEM to a reasonable volume. But volume isn't the issue.

 

The issue is being able to deliver sufficient current to accomplish appropriate excursion at all frequencies, even those that coincide with scarily low impedance.

 

 

High current isn't really required for multi BAs. You want enough for the purpose the that amount will be significantly less than for cans. It will have more to do with how well the amp section and it's power supply is designed which includes low output impedance. Not so much it's max current delivery. Noise aside, good home power amps don't make the best headphone amps for instance. More power isn't automatically better. 


Edited by goodvibes - 10/22/13 at 2:22am
post #791 of 7455
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post
 

High current isn't really required for multi BAs. You want enough for the purpose the that amount will be significantly less than for cans. It will have more to do with how well the amp section and it's power supply is designed which includes low output impedance. Not so much it's max current delivery. Noise aside, good home power amps don't make the best headphone amps for instance. More power isn't automatically better. 

 

Thanks, I'm acutely aware of the importance of relatively low output impedance, since it interacts appropriately with low-impedance loads.

 

To repeat - I couldn't give a fig about cans. It's not me that keeps harping on about cans whenever power output is mentioned.

 

I'm not suggesting that multi-BA CIEMs require lots of current. My point, all along, has simply been to point out that they need adequate current delivery, not 'getting by' on a feeble amp stage. Everything is relative.

post #792 of 7455
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

[Why don't they just say 30 mW of power output instead of 15 mW/channel?

Standard amplifier nomenclature for several decades now. With bridgeable amplifiers, combining the two channels results in even more power output than just the sum of the two channels. Hence, individual channel output power is the best way to quote it.




"If it sounds good to you, that's all that matters. " - Artstar
post #793 of 7455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post

Quote:

Thanks, I'm acutely aware of the importance of relatively low output impedance, since it interacts appropriately with low-impedance loads.

 

My point, all along, has simply been to point out that they need adequate current delivery, not 'getting by' on a feeble amp stage. Everything is relative.


If you really were acutely aware of the electronics theory behind impedances in power transfer systems (in this case, amplifiers), you would know that you can't achieve good current delivery without a well matched low impedance output. Neither are mutually exclusive.




"If it sounds good to you, that's all that matters. " - Artstar
post #794 of 7455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artstar View Post

you would know that you can't achieve good current delivery without a well matched low impedance output. Neither are mutually exclusive.

 

When did I ever dismiss the importance of low impedance output?

 

The following thread is 18 months old. I started it precisely because I understand the importance of low-impedance output:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/583547/cowon-j3-output-impedance

post #795 of 7455
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post
 

 

What!?!? Your best friend here has spent considerable effort in making my way to the Ginza Sony store - stopping by for coffee along the way, flirting with the Sony sales staff of the Xperia and Digital Camera showrooms whilst oiling my way to the Walkman section. Then having line up, making more small talk to kill time, just for a quick 5 min listening session. Then rush to the closest Starbucks, grabbing a cup of coffee, and some phone numbers along the way just to hop onto their free WiFi to share the NW-ZX1 impressions with the audience here.

 

And you missed my initial impressions post!!??

lol, My bad, I rushed to post before reading.

 

I just read  the whole thread.

 

Thanks for your trouble, appreciated.

 

Now I have something to look for.

No ugly, slow and buggy UI for me (DX50!!! and DX100).

 

Sony welcome back.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Portable Source Gear
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Source Gear › Sony NWZ-ZX1 - 35th Walkman Anniversary model