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post #766 of 7502
What does power per channel even mean?

5.1 channel headphone * 15 mW per channel = 76.5 mW power output??

Stereo headphone * 15 mW per channel = 30 mW power output?
Edited by miceblue - 10/21/13 at 8:33am
post #767 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

What does power per channel even mean?

5.1 channel headphone * 15 mW per channel = 76.5 mW power output??

Stereo headphone * 15 mW per channel = 30 mW power output?

 

It's a stereo amplifier, so there are 2 channels. 


Edited by reginalb - 10/21/13 at 9:26am
post #768 of 7502

My F807 also has enough power for me even at 5mw per channel.  My amplification requirement is simple - drive my CIEMs & lower impedance headphones well.  A good 5 mw per channel should be plenty for this.  For standard lossless playback, I take my F807 over my DX50 anyday of the week using JH13pro.  The UI on Sony DAPs are very polished so I'm looking to get one of this when it is available.

post #769 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginalb View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post

What does power per channel even mean?


5.1 channel headphone * 15 mW per channel = 76.5 mW power output??


Stereo headphone * 15 mW per channel = 30 mW power output?

It's a stereo amplifier. So there are 2 channels. 

Mmk thanks for the clarification. Why don't they just say 30 mW of power output instead of 15 mW/channel?

If I recall correctly, the Clip+ delivered 15 mW at 16 Ω, not 30 mW.

log(30 mW / 0.03 mW) / log(2) = 9.97
90 dB SPL + 3 dB SPL * 9.97 = 119.91 dB SPL

The ZX1 should provide plenty of power to get most earphones to deafening levels (the 0.03 mW is how much power it takes to get the V-MODA Crossfade M-100 to 90 dB, though at 32 Ω).
Edited by miceblue - 10/21/13 at 9:16am
post #770 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post


Mmk thanks for the clarification. Why don't they just say 30 mW of power output instead of 15 mW/channel?

If I recall correctly, the Clip+ delivered 15 mW at 16 Ω, not 30 mW.

log(30 mW / 0.03 mW) / log(2) = 9.97
90 dB SPL + 3 dB SPL * 9.97 = 119.91 dB SPL

The ZX-1 should be plenty loud for any earphone (the 0.03 mW is how much power it takes to get the V-MODA Crossfade M-100 to 90 dB, though at 32 Ω).

 

watts, or in this case mW per channel is standard in most audio markets... just the way it is. 

post #771 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by miceblue View Post


Mmk thanks for the clarification. Why don't they just say 30 mW of power output instead of 15 mW/channel?

If I recall correctly, the Clip+ delivered 15 mW at 16 Ω, not 30 mW.

log(30 mW / 0.03 mW) / log(2) = 9.97
90 dB SPL + 3 dB SPL * 9.97 = 119.91 dB SPL

The ZX1 should provide plenty of power to get most earphones to deafening levels (the 0.03 mW is how much power it takes to get the V-MODA Crossfade M-100 to 90 dB, though at 32 Ω).

 

I have actually wondered if the Clip+ is actually 7.5/channel, as I have never seen this specified. I just don't know. 

post #772 of 7502
Quote:

Originally Posted by Artstar View Post
 

[snip]

 

I'm just can't fathom how people can argue that they're going to have issues before they've even had a chance to listen to the damn thing! 

 

[snip]

 

At first consideration, I like your argument, certainly, but in this case, we can tell just by considering the specs, that there's a good chance of disappointment when using any IEMs or headphones that exhibit a lack of headroom (poor dynamics, poor bass extension and control, etc.), when used with similarly powered DAPs (i.e. the Sansa Clip+).  We already know what that sounds like and we already know how additional power can cure those problems. 

 

So, break out your most efficient transducers when auditioning the ZX1 and you'll probably be thrilled.

 

Mike


Edited by zilch0md - 10/21/13 at 9:40am
post #773 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginalb View Post
 

 

I have actually wondered if the Clip+ is actually 7.5/channel, as I have never seen this specified. I just don't know. 

 

It's 15mW per channel.  Head-Fi does not allow posting of this banned member's URLs, but feel free to use Google to search for NwAvGuy Clip+. You can find a page where he took several measurements of the Clip+.

 

Mike

post #774 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post
 

 

It's 15mW per channel.  Head-Fi does not allow posting of this banned member's URLs, but feel free to use Google to search for NwAvGuy Clip+. You can find a page where he took several measurements of the Clip+.

 

Mike

 

I have seen the article to which you refer:

 

"The maximum output of 489 mV corresponds to about 15 mW into 16 ohms (or 7.5 mW into 32 ohms). This is a very healthy max output, especially for a player with such a tiny battery. Many players can only manage about 5 mW... " (Emphasis his)

 

It's not specified if that's total, or per channel. 

post #775 of 7502

Oh, bummer.  Well, we can't make assumptions, either way.

 

Thanks,

 

Mike

post #776 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginalb View Post
 

 

I have seen the article to which you refer:

 

"The maximum output of 489 mV corresponds to about 15 mW into 16 ohms (or 7.5 mW into 32 ohms). This is a very healthy max output, especially for a player with such a tiny battery. Many players can only manage about 5 mW... " (Emphasis his)

 

It's not specified if that's total, or per channel. 

Should be per channel.

post #777 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artstar View Post
 

 

Ultimately, nobody is going to agree with anyone else on what sounds best to them. That's just the unique nature of perception. All the while, there's no right or wrong in all of this either.

 

 

On that, we can agree :beerchug:

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artstar View Post
 

I'm just can't fathom how people can argue that they're going to have issues before they've even had a chance to listen to the damn thing!

 

On the one hand, you make a reasonable argument, there, but on the other, one could equally argue that "I just can't fathom how people can argue that they're not going to have issues before they've even had a chance to listen to the damn thing!"

 

We're all just chatting here. We're just sharing different viewpoints, concerns, and opinions. No harm done, either way.

 

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post
 

 

I'd appreciate if you can make a recommendation of a high impedance can that does not require high current delivery, and if it's not too pricey I'd be happy to buy it and bring it to the Sony Ginza store again to test and report back to this audience here.

 

I think it's obvious from my post that I wasn't discussing high impedance cans. I was discussing CIEMs. I have no interest in cans for a portable device; none whatsoever. To me, cans are for home or transportable use, not truly portable use. If you're going to lug around a pair of cans (and look rather foolish as you walk down the street), then one might as well just carry an equally large iDevice/Android stack.

 

The whole point of the NW-ZX1 is that it is highly compact and portable, so I would only consider using it with IEMs or CIEMs that also fit neatly into my pocket.

 

 

 

Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post
 

I have no idea what you're about here. My response is in direct reference to "I doubt the general consumer would pay so much for this DAP". I see no reference to "power", "impedance", or anything technical. It has to do with levels of spending desire.

 

 

Again, don't know what you're on about here. My response has nothing to do about a product's capability to cater for all levels of audio consumers. It is in response to an individual's attitude and opinion that the general consumer isn't worthy of consideration.

 

 

OK, it seems we had crossed wires, here, and that is also evident from T.R.A.N.C.E.'s reply (below), too.

 

Not to worry.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by T.R.A.N.C.E. View Post
 

 

Umm, all I want is more power output, I don't think that hurts the general consumer... It just benefits the audiophile. My comment wasn't meant to be taken literally. And my "doubt consumer spending" comment wasn't aimed at Japan, was aimed at the world in general.

 

 

Again, I don't see our discussion as an argument. To me, it's just an amiable debate.

 

 

In spite of my reservations about the meagre 15mw+15mw current delivery of the NW-ZX1, I assure you, no one would be happier than me if it turns out that the NW-ZX1 punches above it's on-paper specifications. I think it's a lovely-looking piece of kit and I'd be really chuffed if I could buy a dap this compact that performs beautifully with any CIEMs I throw at it.

post #778 of 7502

How many hours for the ZX1 on a single charge?

 

Dont know whether to pre-order this and wait for 'PRICE-DROP', knowing that the battery is not interchangeable without breaking it open.

 

I was at Sony Store yesterday and they dont even know when the next walkman is coming out!:duggfloat:

post #779 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by AUDIOBREEDER View Post
 

How many hours for the ZX1 on a single charge?

 

 

 

Apparently, Sony are quoting 32hrs, but that's meaningless, since it's for 128kbps mp3 playback - in other words, it's typical disingenuous smoke-&-mirrors marketing B$.

 

I'm guessing it's probably going to be 15-18hrs with Hi-Rez.

post #780 of 7502

Cant wait to get this WMC-NWH10 USB out from Walkman! Maybe we can try it on old walkmans :)

 

 

 

http://www.sony.jp/walkman/products/WMC-NWH10/feature_1.html

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