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Sony NWZ-ZX1 - 35th Walkman Anniversary model - Page 371

post #5551 of 7455
Quote:
Originally Posted by OK-Guy View Post


a complete misnomer... you get some 'mic air' with older recordings.

the last 'hissy' Walkman was pre X-Series which is at least 3years ago.

That's what I was saying earlier. Only hiss I hear is older recordings, Frank Sinatra, Elvis, etc. Newer recordings sound crystal clear.
post #5552 of 7455
Quote:
Originally Posted by FortisFlyer75 View Post
 

All depends on what you would prioritise for your your own needs which you may already know with knowing! tricky one as it depends on what you may want, if you already like the rest of your headphone or iem inventory you have then getting a Hugo will make these sound like you have never heard them before getting the last drop out of your head gear which would feel like having new can's, iem's as a result.  I know this as I could not believe how much better my Sony MDR-7520's or Noble N5's sounded with the Hugo and I have heard both of them with a lot of other top kit in the last couple of years and this was a revelation as some of that other top kit is still some good gear I have heard them with.

 

If you use your Walkman a lot for actual portable on the go use then this factor could trump the Hugo, so getting a descent pair of sensitive iem's first to pair with the ZX1 and maybe you might get off set the cost by selling the iem that might become redundant as a result of the new iem purchase possibly? 

 

The Hugo also would have many uses in it's configuration with all those inputs and been able to use it in speaker set up also. 

Just would come down to stretching to that Hugo budget, but from experience it would be worth it all day long.  

 

So comes down to what your personal primary needs/ objective might be determines which purchase might come first.  

Hurricane Hugo strips everything in it's path and leaves nothing but detail, bliss and will leave carnage to other company's that will be trying to emulate in playing catch up in  the coming year or so.  

 

All I know I feared going back to my Walkman also after my time with the Hugo but considering how seriously good the Hugo is making it an inevitable step down going back to ZX1 standalone it is still an enjoyable listen were you are not paranoid by nit picking and comparing it to the Hugo which is in a way a compliment to the ZX1 as when I finally get a Hugo it is nice to know when I need to still use the ZX1 standalone or when mobile on the go walking I will still enjoy it in the way as when I heard it the first time I got my ZX1, so yeah, completely concur that been able to still love your ZX1 after un coupling the Hugo. 

 

 

 

Sounds like you need to get your trousers back and wear them and put your foot down and go behind your wifes back and buy hugo and not tell her and then hide it inside a box of kleenex tissues or disguise it somehow so she never sees it!  Good luck with your mission if you choose to accept it.  p.s. then change log in details so she can't check bank balances also! 

 

Good advice, thanks.

 

I've spent the weekend reading threads on CIEMs and trying to digest the minefield! So much choice and options :eek: Noble 4S, Ultimate Ears Custom In-Ear Reference Monitors are in the right price range, but not yet read how I go about getting them fitted in the uk .. more reading to do.

 

I don't like the idea of carrying more kit around so the sensitive CIEMS are the new priority, with the hope I can then try them with the hugo later. Having the hugo as a home setup, driving some speakers is a nice option, to justify the asking price :cool:

 

Thanks for the final point :beerchug: , you are of course absolutely correct, that I do need to get the trousers back and go and purchase that box of Kleenex! 

post #5553 of 7455
Quote:
Originally Posted by mannp View Post
 

 

Good advice, thanks.

 

I've spent the weekend reading threads on CIEMs and trying to digest the minefield! So much choice and options :eek: Noble 4S, Ultimate Ears Custom In-Ear Reference Monitors are in the right price range, but not yet read how I go about getting them fitted in the uk .. more reading to do.

 

I don't like the idea of carrying more kit around so the sensitive CIEMS are the new priority, with the hope I can then try them with the hugo later. Having the hugo as a home setup, driving some speakers is a nice option, to justify the asking price :cool:

 

Thanks for the final point :beerchug: , you are of course absolutely correct, that I do need to get the trousers back and go and purchase that box of Kleenex! 

No worries, when it's a minefield just take your time and don't rush then you don't blow your wallet up! 

 

UE's can be demoed at Hand Held Audio in Enfield if your able to get there and they do the impressions as well but you will pay a price for this service.  I got my JH16pros done there three years ago, friendly bunch there, know their stuff but they mainly to fit and supply to the music industry and artist.  

 

If your interested in the Noble 4S drop Ok-Guy a line on here as he can help you out there and they should have their own list of places to get done impressions if you went the 4S route. 

 

The Hugo especially as it is not a product that will chop and change every five minutes like other products do now days will always be there, not going anyway for later once you are settled with the iems and can only imagine from when I heard the older incarnation of a 4 that the detail resolution of the 4 in a custom will match the Hugo when the time comes and should match the ZX1 really well as well until then. 

 

Main thing is the ZX1 is a good enough Walkman for SQ that it still gives a good long listening session as it is. Even after going back to the ZX1 after I finished my demo session with the Hugo the ZX1 is still good enough on it's own to enjoy the sound despite the Hugo's magical properties of listening bliss.

 

Once you get your trousers back from been ironed and your man size Kleenex is opened and in strategic positioning your will be ready to roll your ciem's which will be easier to hide than a Hugo anyhow!  Good luck :wink_face: 

post #5554 of 7455

To clarify, the hiss is apparent when no music is playing. It doesn't come from the audio file. When music is playing the hiss is still noticeable, and when switching between the two in quiet passages the 5s is 'blacker' in background.

 

Apart from that, in all other respects they sound more or less identical once volume matched. As I keep saying I do not think the iPhone 5S sounds subjectively better to my ears apart from the hiss! I am saying that they really do sound more or less the same and I would assume without the presence of the hiss I would fail any properly conducted ABX trial to determine the differences between the two.

 

I think the hiss is problematic from the standpoint that Sony is selling the product on the basis of delivering high res audio, but in terms of bit depth it simply CANNOT achieve what it is being advertised for.

 

Anyway here is my two part review if you are interested in some of the nitty gritty of the comparison and how I did the volume matching:

 

 

post #5555 of 7455

Thanks Lachlan for a comprehensive and final review.

The Sony is disappointing on many and almost all fronts. As you have pointed out, the ZX-1 should wipe the floor with any smartphone period.

It firstly should kill the Apple products in the sound department without any fuss, it doesn't.

It should have the cpu power to achieve any task without lag, it doesn't.

It's screen rez and brightness should match any player(approx. same price) or phone out there and better it, it doesn't.

 

It only has two things going for it currently at least compared to the iPhone 5s in that it is better made, metal verses mostly plastic and it's 128GB of memory.

The iPhone 5s is first and foremost a phone with gimmicks attached, one being the music player. It has fixed memory and currently is limited to max 64GB.

This should push people to buy the Samsung Galaxy range which has expandable memory and meet and exceed the ZX-1 here. If the Samsung has comparable music playing finesse then it's really a no brainier- and you get a phone thrown in.

 

I have had the ZX-1 for some time now and the more I use it the more it's short cummings annoy me and at the price I paid I feel ripped off. I will wait for the new Cowon Plenue P1 to come out and compare.

Bad job Sony you should and can do better.


Edited by Cecala - 6/8/14 at 7:50pm
post #5556 of 7455
To be clear, comparing against the 5S is not a slight against the ZX1. The 5S and iPod Touch is by measurements and by (open minded) evaluation a good audio player.

As a dedicated music device the Zx1 should probably perform better if it wants valuable pocket space, but it doesn't appear to. However it's still a good player and is surely better built and more usable than a lot of other 'audiophile' grade daps. Compared to other Android phones I think it's a tough call, they appear to be all over the place.

By the way, the 5S is actually made of aluminium and glass. In terms of build quality it is on par with if not better than the ZX1. Gotta miss those hardware music controls though!

I'm curious about how cheap players like the Fiio X3 compare given their excellent RMAA results.
post #5557 of 7455
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

To be clear, comparing against the 5S is not a slight against the ZX1. The 5S and iPod Touch is by measurements and by (open minded) evaluation a good audio player.

As a dedicated music device the Zx1 should probably perform better if it wants valuable pocket space, but it doesn't appear to. However it's still a good player and is surely better built and more usable than a lot of other 'audiophile' grade daps. Compared to other Android phones I think it's a tough call, they appear to be all over the place.

By the way, the 5S is actually made of aluminium and glass. In terms of build quality it is on par with if not better than the ZX1. Gotta miss those hardware music controls though!

I'm curious about how cheap players like the Fiio X3 compare given their excellent RMAA results.

I'm starting to think that your ZX1 may not the same as the Japanese version.  I for example love the sound of my ZX1 and really enjoy it.  I compared it against the X5 and also liked it better.  I also prefer my ZX1 over both the modified AK100, and DX50.  Compared to the ZX1 & X3, I found the X3  to be good but lacking refinement (as well as a bit boommy) next to both the ZX1 & modded AK100.  


Edited by purk - 6/8/14 at 10:04pm
post #5558 of 7455
Well I'm happy with mine. It doesn't lag and the ui is responsive. I did have an issue with a non responsive app that crashed but apart from that its been good.

My last iPhone was the 4s. Good but I'm slowly moving away from iOS. Prefer android though I'm still fond of my iPad.
Edited by Dumbleroar - 6/9/14 at 1:06am
post #5559 of 7455
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

However it's still a good player and is surely better built and more usable than a lot of other 'audiophile' grade daps.

 

well you finally realised what a Walkman is all about, a music player... to be honest the Android UI doesn't interest me.

 

as long as I can 'drag & drop' my music, select Album then hit play that's all that interest me... afterall  it's a Walkman, small point.

post #5560 of 7455

I know this is pointing out the obvious, but hi-res is not just about the dynamics (bit depth) but the resolution/detail and extended frequency range (less important) of a higher sampling rate. In fact, when listening through headphones, true 24-bit dynamic range might be a difficult listen for some music. I cannot hear any hiss with my choice of IEMs and it really does depend on the sensitivity of them whether you will or not. I do have sensitive high frequency hearing so I would hear it if it was there. So I would think the Sony's would still show an obvious improvement with hi-res music even if the dynamic range of the outputs is not capable of a full 24-bit range. That being said, Sony went the wrong way with their advertising, which DOES focus on dynamic range.

 

"Hear detailed, authentic sound on the move with High-Resolution Audio. With higher sampling and bit rates than CDs, High-Resolution Audio gives a wider dynamic range, for crisper highs, richer lows, and greater subtleties."

 

Of course 24-bit dynamic range also does give more individual volume levels even within the space that the Sony is capable of reproducing. We really shouldn't get hung up on whether it can produce a sound so quiet you can hardly hear it and so loud your ears are damaged...that's such an abstract way of viewing it.


Edited by jonstatt - 6/9/14 at 4:20am
post #5561 of 7455

What kind of audio files were used to make these comparisons? Does the Iphone 5S support ALAC/FLAC?

post #5562 of 7455
Using Capriccio app it plays flac
post #5563 of 7455
Quote:
Originally Posted by purk View Post

I'm starting to think that your ZX1 may not the same as the Japanese version.  I for example love the sound of my ZX1 and really enjoy it.  I compared it against the X5 and also liked it better.  I also prefer my ZX1 over both the modified AK100, and DX50.  Compared to the ZX1 & X3, I found the X3  to be good but lacking refinement (as well as a bit boommy) next to both the ZX1 & modded AK100.  

 



Why would Sony make a crappy Austrailian version? He has done extensive measuring and listenting tests to prove it is a capable player and shown that it excels in somethings and has shortcomings in others. I don't understand why people can't grasp that a billion dollar company like Apple can produce decent products.
post #5564 of 7455
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumbleroar View Post

Well I'm happy with mine. It doesn't lag and the ui is responsive. I did have an issue with a non responsive app that crashed but apart from that its been good.

My last iPhone was the 4s. Good but I'm slowly moving away from iOS. Prefer android though I'm still fond of my iPad.


Yes it does because you lack a reference point. A while ago I used someone's Sony phone which had the exact same version of Android that the ZX1 has. To my surprise the phone's responsiveness was quite a lot better, so much so that to me now the ZX-1 is slow. The ZX-1 is very expensive and only plays music so it should have the best of everything, alas it does not so I feel ripped off.

post #5565 of 7455
Quote:
Originally Posted by meat01 View Post


Why would Sony make a crappy Austrailian version? He has done extensive measuring and listenting tests to prove it is a capable player and shown that it excels in somethings and has shortcomings in others. I don't understand why people can't grasp that a billion dollar company like Apple can produce decent products.

 

Just to clarify, I didn't do any RMAA measurements myself and I would love to see more results published about the ZX1 from different sources. So far I've only seen the Soomal figures, but the Soomal figures are enough to be pretty confident about the SNR numbers. 

 

I do think that volume matching is essential for any fair comparison though. This is why I have avoided reviewing audio products in the past (at least on my channel). Way back in my Head Fi history I would talk all the time about Source A sounding like this and Source B sounding like that. Nowadays having done things like ABX tests between lossless and lossy for instance, I have developed a strong degree of scepticism simply because I am now aware of how active my brain is in making up differences.

 

I'm starting to come to the opinion that after a certain minimum performance level has been met from a source in terms of things like distortion and noise, beyond that any differences between sources are imperceptible when driving standard loads.

 

For instance the ZX1 is meant to have a better crosstalk figure than the 5S but I don't really think I can hear that 3/4db difference after volume matching. I can definitely hear the hiss on the ZX1 in my room, but would probably never hear it outside.

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