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Sony NWZ-ZX1 - 35th Walkman Anniversary model - Page 362

post #5416 of 7502

Some funnys reviews of Sony NW-ZX1 but yet quite philosophy :ksc75smile:

http://www.shaoerduo.com/pingce/880.html

 

http://www.shaoerduo.com/pingce/863.html

 

For those understand Mandarin, i specially like this statement:

Quote:
 现在的发烧界有些畸形了,太注重纸面上的东西,而忽视了音乐的本质是用来欣赏的。你买一台素质高超的播放器,听歌的时候全神贯注听定位,听解析,请问您那 是听歌呢么?您直接看示波器算了。卖东西的人也这么卖,素质高,声场大,推力牛逼,就是好东西了。一个人眼睛鼻子嘴都好看,放到一起去可不一定好看,对不 对?那些便携播放器,素质有了,可声音的整体完成度很低很低,听上去一点整体感都没有。好听么?耐听么?
post #5417 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post
 

Might be time to re-read some of the stuff nwavguy and Tyll have written on the problems inherent in trying to measure gear before we put dunces caps on the engineers who built the ZX1. 

 

Certainly I think the ZX1 at the very least sounds as good as the iPhone 5S. Even if these measurement figures are 100% accurate (and there's a lot of figures that as Nwavguy points out, RMAA does not measure) they are both nice players that pull some good measurement figures.It just so happens that the 5S seems to be delivering better ones. (Except for output impedance, which as Tom explained a while back is effectively nearly 0 for the ZX1).

 

But in regards to measurement issues, signal to noise ratio is a very simple measurement. You are just measuring the ratio of the actual signal to noise that isn't part of the signal. As long as the test set up that Soomal used to measure the iPhone 5S is the same as their setup for the ZX1, then the numbers are comparable and the ZX1 fails to deliver 16 bits of dynamic range.  I am not going to put dunces caps on the engineers, it's the marketing side of thing (selling a product that can't actually deliver what is promised) which is at issue.

post #5418 of 7502

The iphone 5s downgrades 24/96 to 24/44? So that has it's problems as well. 

post #5419 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumbleroar View Post
 

The iphone 5s downgrades 24/96 to 24/44? So that has it's problems as well. 

 

Well sure. I'm not overly fussed about 96khz on a portable player though, considering that it is already difficult to discern 256k AAC from 16/44 lossless, let alone 16/44 from 24/96. That can of worms is going to go a little off topic though, so let me just go back to my basic point: these basic measurements do not seem to indicate that the ZX1 performs any better than an iPhone 5, and to me it doesn't seem worth spending the extra money and the extra effort to carry two devices.

 

I've been trying to work out how I can do my own RMAA but it seems like I will have to buy some kind of fancy USB audio interface for that.

 

I'm not saying the ZX1 is bad and for the $525 price I got mine it seems like a steal for a well built 128gb portable media player, but it doesn't really feel like I need a 128gb portable media player - especially when it doesn't seem to excel over what I already have in my pocket.

post #5420 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post
 

 

Well sure. I'm not overly fussed about 96khz on a portable player though, considering that it is already difficult to discern 256k AAC from 16/44 lossless, let alone 16/44 from 24/96. That can of worms is going to go a little off topic though, so let me just go back to my basic point: these basic measurements do not seem to indicate that the ZX1 performs any better than an iPhone 5, and to me it doesn't seem worth spending the extra money and the extra effort to carry two devices.

 

I've been trying to work out how I can do my own RMAA but it seems like I will have to buy some kind of fancy USB audio interface for that.

 

I'm not saying the ZX1 is bad and for the $525 price I got mine it seems like a steal for a well built 128gb portable media player, but it doesn't really feel like I need a 128gb portable media player - especially when it doesn't seem to excel over what I already have in my pocket.

 

I'd have to agree to some extent - I paid $560 AUD for my ZX1, though that included a preorder bonus MDR-10R. It's definitely nicer than my phone (Xperia Z Ultra) - there is more clarity across the board, and the highs and lows seem to extend further. That is just to my ears though, and of course the iPhone 5 may (probably) has better internals than my phone. So it is definitely debatable as to whether these improvements are worth the price tag I think - I've posted about this before but the way I see it, everyone's perception of value is unique, some are willing to accept much smaller marginal gains for their money than others, as this hobby is definitely one that follows the law of marginal utility to my ears.

 

One thing you can't argue with though is the immaculate construction/aesthetics of this thing; sometimes I just fondle it while listening to music because it feels so nice in my hands. That alone goes towards justifying the price tag for me. Call me shallow or whatever you want, but that brushed aluminium and faux leather bring me joy.

 

So overall, I'm extremely happy with my purchase - I feel like I got a nice overall package with a SQ improvement at a reasonable price. That will differ from person to person though, depending on what gear they already own, and how much value they place on what SQ benefits there is to be had when comparing the ZX1 with whatever device they are currently using.

post #5421 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post
 

 

Certainly I think the ZX1 at the very least sounds as good as the iPhone 5S. Even if these measurement figures are 100% accurate (and there's a lot of figures that as Nwavguy points out, RMAA does not measure) they are both nice players that pull some good measurement figures.It just so happens that the 5S seems to be delivering better ones. (Except for output impedance, which as Tom explained a while back is effectively nearly 0 for the ZX1).

 

But in regards to measurement issues, signal to noise ratio is a very simple measurement. You are just measuring the ratio of the actual signal to noise that isn't part of the signal. As long as the test set up that Soomal used to measure the iPhone 5S is the same as their setup for the ZX1, then the numbers are comparable and the ZX1 fails to deliver 16 bits of dynamic range.  I am not going to put dunces caps on the engineers, it's the marketing side of thing (selling a product that can't actually deliver what is promised) which is at issue.

I have hard time believing that the iPhone 5S is as good as the ZX1 sound wise.  Admittedly, I don't own the iPhone 5 but do own iPhone 4, and iPod Touch 4, and both fail to play in the same league as my ZX1.  I personally feel that my ZX1 is much more superior in all counts in the sound quality department.  Heck, I even prefer the Sony's music app over the Apple Music App in my iDevice.   Note that I've compared my ZX1 to both the DX50, X3, X5, and modded AK100...and also like the ZX1 better.  I guess we all hear differently.  I do believe in measurement but measurement doesn't tell the whole story. 

post #5422 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by satish89 View Post
 

everyone's perception of value is unique, some are willing to accept much smaller marginal gains for their money than others, as this hobby is definitely one that follows the law of marginal utility to my ears.

 

+1

 

Definitely measurements, and in particular RMAA doesn't tell the whole story. Though I have to say the story these RMAA's are telling is pretty interesting ;)

post #5423 of 7502

If that SNR measurement is correct the only parallel I can draw is the humble tube amp, where certain measurements are completely contradictory to the subjective claims re sound quality. I will concede that the Sony's default sound signature seems more contrived to my ears than most of my gear - not terribly surprising as the X1060 was cut from much the same cloth. 

post #5424 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post
 

 

+1

 

Definitely measurements, and in particular RMAA doesn't tell the whole story. Though I have to say the story these RMAA's are telling is pretty interesting ;)


you keep your charts & Apples and I'll keep enjoying the superb music my ZX1/F887 produce... sounds fair to me.

post #5425 of 7502

@OK_Guy, I do like to see the measurements on new kit, but I'd like to see them done by Stereophile with professional measurement tools, even if a_recording makes a good point about SNR. One of the problems I have is that we cant copy and paste anything from nwavguy's blog, but he is quite scathing when it comes to RMAA measurements - coming from a man who clearly lives for this stuff, his blog entries on the subject really resonated with me. He even makes the point that there were a few instances where his own subjective impressions of certain components didnt explain some of the measurements but it was rarely anything major - the stuff Tyll has written since then only drives home to me just how much effort goes into producing a reliable set of measurements. If the O2 was the perfect headphone amp, how does anyone else sell a headphone amplifier that costs more (in many cases, much more) ? 

 

Audio is science meets art meets addiction - more power to those who can make that happen without destroying their wallets in the process. 

post #5426 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post If the O2 was the perfect headphone amp, how does anyone else sell a headphone amplifier that costs more (in many cases, much more) ? 

 

 

To have a beautiful very high quality amp that sounds with the coloration they like without any compromises on overall SQ.

post #5427 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post
 

 

Well sure. I'm not overly fussed about 96khz on a portable player though, considering that it is already difficult to discern 256k AAC from 16/44 lossless, let alone 16/44 from 24/96. That can of worms is going to go a little off topic though, so let me just go back to my basic point: these basic measurements do not seem to indicate that the ZX1 performs any better than an iPhone 5, and to me it doesn't seem worth spending the extra money and the extra effort to carry two devices.

 

I've been trying to work out how I can do my own RMAA but it seems like I will have to buy some kind of fancy USB audio interface for that.

 

I'm not saying the ZX1 is bad and for the $525 price I got mine it seems like a steal for a well built 128gb portable media player, but it doesn't really feel like I need a 128gb portable media player - especially when it doesn't seem to excel over what I already have in my pocket.


Hi,

 

I would like to get the ZX1 but not @ 699 AUD. How did you get yours so cheap? Any tips?

 

Regards

post #5428 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinche View Post
 


Hi,

 

I would like to get the ZX1 but not @ 699 AUD. How did you get yours so cheap? Any tips?

 

Regards

 

check out Price-Japan's website.

post #5429 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dinche View Post
 


Hi,

 

I would like to get the ZX1 but not @ 699 AUD. How did you get yours so cheap? Any tips?

 

Regards

He could be a Sony X member as they were having specials on them the last time

post #5430 of 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by manutd6389 View Post
 

He could be a Sony X member as they were having specials on them the last time

 

I am a Sony X member, but actually in this case I got a 25% discount voucher when I attended an event they held for high res audio (by invitation).

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