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post #5401 of 6608
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post
 

 

What Soomal found is that the ZX1 has a signal to noise ratio of 93 db. This is lower than an iPhone 5S which they found to have an SNR of 96db. http://www.soomal.com/doc/10100004450.htm Almost all the other THD measurements are worse than the iPhone 5S except stereo crosstalk. If anyone who can read Chinese can correct me, but I am assuming that they used the same test environment including the E-MU1616m in both RMAA tests.

 

For reference, 16bit audio has a dynamic range of 96db. This means that Sony is selling a 'audiophile 24 bit high resolution music player' that cannot actually deliver 16 bits of dynamic range, let alone 24 bit.


I read it, but I'm reserving judgment until more tests of this sort are in. How do you like it so far and what headphones are you using with it?

post #5402 of 6608
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post  What Soomal found is that the ZX1 has a signal to noise ratio of 93 db. This is lower than an iPhone 5S which they found to have an SNR of 96db. http://www.soomal.com/doc/10100004450.htm Almost all the other THD measurements are worse than the iPhone 5S except stereo crosstalk. If anyone who can read Chinese can correct me, but I am assuming that they used the same test environment including the E-MU1616m in both RMAA tests. For reference, 16bit audio has a dynamic range of 96db. This means that Sony is selling a 'audiophile 24 bit high resolution music player' that cannot actually deliver 16 bits of dynamic range, let alone 24 bit.

 

There is one key thing going for a PWM system --- it doesn't need a digital filter, meaning that it doesn't have the big issue of having to deal with FIR/IIR linear/minimum phase filters, and it doesn't need any analog components other than an RC low-pass (traditional systems will need separate I/V conversion, voltage gain, and current buffering stages), so Sony is choosing a path of minimalism (hoping for sonic purity, perhaps, and lower power consumption) in lieu of resolution. It's also choosing a path that shuns all the current, modern Sigma-Delta noise-shaping DAC chips (which are criticized by hardcore audiophiles for being unnatural-sounding) for something it builds and controls itself --- typical Sony behavior. I believe the technology will improve in due time, but this current iteration of S-Master is definitely lacking in resolution. Notice that the dynamic range doesn't improve with 24/96 music --- that means that right now, the noise floor cannot drop, which is suggestive of excess switching noise from the S-Master HX MCU. Switching noise is what plagues all Class-D/D-esque systems.

post #5403 of 6608

Spend a good amount of time with ZX-1 today and to my ears ZX-1 is better sounding than AK120. To my ears ZX-1 is more inline with colorfly C4 than ZX-1. I had a good change to purchase a unit today for 600 AUD with a free pair of headphone but I passed, ZX-1 is great but I felt it sounds will be fatiguing over long run. 

 

It will pair great with warmer sounding IEM with no issue with power. It also seem to pair nicely with 627x. I was very tempted today but I really didn't know what to do with another amp.

 

I think the wisest thing to do now is wait till the june apple event and see what they are having planned, you never know maybe their bring their own answer to ZX-1 and pono?

post #5404 of 6608
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublea71 View Post


I read it, but I'm reserving judgment until more tests of this sort are in. How do you like it so far and what headphones are you using with it?

Well, essentially I have it and I think it sounds good, but it sounds pretty much like my iPhone 5S. Maybe a little more airy but it's hard to tell I'm not making things up given the lack of volume matching. I keep bringing up the 5S not because I think it's a bad thing for the ZX1 to perform similarly to, but in the end the ZX1 is quite expensive and does less than a smartphone.

I am listening primarily at the moment with the XBA-H3 which probably has some of the best high frequency extension I've heard in an IEM. On the ZX1 it's smooth as has a nice airyness to it, but I can actually hear more noise when no music is playing compared to the 5S.

I'll do some more rigorous A/Bing and try to do my own RMAA when I get the chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

There is one key thing going for a PWM system --- it doesn't need a digital filter, meaning that it doesn't have the big issue of having to deal with FIR/IIR linear/minimum phase filters, and it doesn't need any analog components other than an RC low-pass (traditional systems will need separate I/V conversion, voltage gain, and current buffering stages), so Sony is choosing a path of minimalism (hoping for sonic purity, perhaps, and lower power consumption) in lieu of resolution. It's also choosing a path that shuns all the current, modern Sigma-Delta noise-shaping DAC chips (which are criticized by hardcore audiophiles for being unnatural-sounding) for something it builds and controls itself --- typical Sony behavior. I believe the technology will improve in due time, but this current iteration of S-Master is definitely lacking in resolution. Notice that the dynamic range doesn't improve with 24/96 music --- that means that right now, the noise floor cannot drop, which is suggestive of excess switching noise from the S-Master HX MCU. Switching noise is what plagues all Class-D/D-esque systems.

It's a very Sony approach, like forgoing crossovers on the XBA and making their own BA's. Like the XBA it doesn't always work out heh.
post #5405 of 6608
Btw I'm curious Tom, does the lack of filters mean that there is no digital pre or post ringing?
post #5406 of 6608
Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post

Please read Noel Heywoods review of the 886 in Hi-Fi World before you make any purchase decisions - I'm afraid he's not a fan beyond the video and 'gadget' capabilities of the cheaper Walkman. This is his conclusion:

Unfortunately, the NWZ-F886 is a low-res audio player equipped to play high resolution audio files. Sony has given it none of the special parts - including top quality DAC and high performance line-output amplifiers - that go to make up a true high resolution player. With no digital output able to feed an external DAC, it is severely limited audio-wise and not in the same league as rivals. It is streets-ahead gadget wise though and great value if this is what you want.

He doesnt put it in the same league as the AK120, although I had to wonder if he was aware that you can get a LOD for the WM-Port and hookup an external amp. He wasnt especially impressed with either Bluetooth or Wi-Fi capability and my own time with the ZX1 and my Chord Hugo tend to reinforce those sentiments : Bluetooth playback is acceptable to my ears but even AptX doesnt drive me wild with excitement. 

One man's opinion ? Sure, but he raved about the ADL X1 in the same issue and I am really enjoying mine : it just isnt as elegant a solution as the ZX1. Interesting that the X1 thread here seems to have become a bitch session between people who have never actually heard it, but that's so often the way - personally, I think it's one of the best BFYB toys I've had in a long time. Whether Heywood's opinion of the 886 and - by extension - the lack of a digital output on both Walkmans impacts your purchase decision, I think it's better to hear another POV before you lay down your hard-earned cash on a DAP with such minimal onboard storage. 

I am not sure where this quoted review is going. Several respected head-fii'ers have compared the f886 to the zx1 and can hear little to no difference between them....so if that review carries any weight then it should hold equally to both players
post #5407 of 6608
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrior1975 View Post

I absolutely love this unit. Even more so than when I first received it.

 

Does this have anything to do with some 'new-for-you' 1plus2's?? Hmmm?

post #5408 of 6608
Lol. Not yet. I haven't had much time with them yet. I just used headphones I was more familiar with, the G2 and 8.a. I'm going to get more time with the 1p2 tonight and hopefully over the weekend.
post #5409 of 6608
Quote:
Originally Posted by audionewbi View Post

Spend a good amount of time with ZX-1 today and to my ears ZX-1 is better sounding than AK120. To my ears ZX-1 is more inline with colorfly C4 than ZX-1. I had a good change to purchase a unit today for 600 AUD with a free pair of headphone but I passed, ZX-1 is great but I felt it sounds will be fatiguing over long run. 

It will pair great with warmer sounding IEM with no issue with power. It also seem to pair nicely with 627x. I was very tempted today but I really didn't know what to do with another amp.

I think the wisest thing to do now is wait till the june apple event and see what they are having planned, you never know maybe their bring their own answer to ZX-1 and pono?

I felt similarly with the ak120 but only for easier to drive iem's and ciems. The ak240 is a different beast but also way more expensive. As someone who only uses iem's with the zx1 I don't really see a point imo if course of getting anything better than the zx1
post #5410 of 6608
I was thinking about getting another DAP... But I'm actually very happy with this. I use IEMS only as well... I'm definitely interested in the ak120ii...looks very sexy.
post #5411 of 6608
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

Btw I'm curious Tom, does the lack of filters mean that there is no digital pre or post ringing?

 



+1
post #5412 of 6608

@jonstatt - I have no idea if the internals are the same in both players, but I still like what I'm hearing from the ZX1 - measurements be damned. nwavguy measured my old iTouch and the Clip+ a couple of years back - both returned great figures, but I'll take the Sony any day of the week even if I do agree that it's overpriced. If the iPhone 5S sounds this good - and I struggle with that claim - Apple must have made a quantum leap from the sonic capabilities of my 4th Gen iTouch to the 5S. The 24/96 HDTracks download of the latest Dream Theater album is an absolute treat on the Sony, regardless of the number of bits I'm actually getting. Might be time to re-read some of the stuff nwavguy and Tyll have written on the problems inherent in trying to measure gear before we put dunces caps on the engineers who built the ZX1. 

post #5413 of 6608

is this worth an upgrade from my sony f887 walkman?

post #5414 of 6608
I do have to concede that the 5S HO is very good, however - for me, it has a slightly... erm... metallic edge to the top end that makes it sound a little 'fake'...

Still not really sure if I can be bothered to pursue the ZX1 & PHA2, considering I have Fiio X5 & E12 and 5S & Centrance HiFi M8, maybe as others have intimated, a ZX1 successor will be best to wait for now, hopefully with a simultaneous worldwide release, that'd be good for a change...
post #5415 of 6608
Quote:
Originally Posted by manutd6389 View Post
 

is this worth an upgrade from my sony f887 walkman?

 

only if you want a larger memory & a superbly designed DAP... it will sound the same (I own both), hth.

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