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Sony NWZ-ZX1 - 35th Walkman Anniversary model - Page 73

post #1081 of 6440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecala View Post
 


Yes I'm saying changing the battery myself will be difficult, that is, you are forced to send it back to Sony. They will charge a fortune for this.

Regards the scanning I thought it made no difference if you had internal memory or not, scanning was required either way.

Why are you so much into changing the battery?

I never had a failed battery in any of my Sony walkmans!

 

 

The problem with lithium ion batteries is that the more discharge cycles you put them through, the less efficient the negative electrode becomes at holding electrons. This just won't do in our mobile future, so researchers at Stanford University have developed a battery that actually heals itself. It's nearly alive.

Researchers have been working to increase the energy density of modern lithium ion batteries while reducing their weight for a number of years now, with mixed results. One of the most promising advances has come from incorporating silicon into the cathode, which allows it to hold far more electrons than the current oxide mix. However physically silicon swells, up to 300 percent, when filled with electrons and shrink back down as they're expended. This leads the material to crack and splinter within a few discharge cycles.

The self-healing polymer developed by Stanford's Chao Wang and Hui Wu of Beijing's Tsinghua University doesn't actually stop that cracking, it simply instantly repairs it. See, the team deliberately weakened a few key bonds within the polymer so that while those weakened bonds would easily break, they'd be chemically attracted back towards one another, re-bonding as soon as they're snapped apart.

Tomorrow's Rechargeable Batteries Might Never Wear OutSEXPAND

"We found that silicon electrodes lasted 10 times longer when coated with the self-healing polymer, which repaired any cracks within just a few hours," Stanford Professor Zhenan Bao, whose group helped develop the polymer from its own research into flexible electronic robot skins, said in a press statement.

"Self-healing is very important for the survival and long lifetimes of animals and plants," said Wang in the Nov. 19 issue of Nature Chemistry. "We want to incorporate this feature into lithium ion batteries so they will have a long lifetime as well."

The electrodes currently only work for about 100 charge cycles without failing. The team hopes to boost that performance to 500 cycles for cell phones and 3,000 cycles for electric vehicle applications with future iterations. [Stanford University]


Edited by turokrocks - 11/17/13 at 10:47pm
post #1082 of 6440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecala View Post
 

 

I don't know, the money Sony is asking is very steep. The images I've seen, it looks like changing the battery is going to be very difficult unless you damage the unit. If this is true then I will get the X5 for sure. The UI will be quite good on the X5 I think, from what I've read fiio has put a great deal of effort here.

So your saying that this scanning of internal memory is not required, please explain.

I think it is steep but still reasonable.  I owned their previous top of the lines walkman, and they are totally worth the asking price and always work without problems.  Yes, they are still more expensive than the DX50 but then again iRiver want nearly twice as much form their AK120.  Also, it is still cheaper than the DX100 price tag of $899.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecala View Post
 


Yes I'm saying changing the battery myself will be difficult, that is, you are forced to send it back to Sony. They will charge a fortune for this.

Regards the scanning I thought it made no difference if you had internal memory or not, scanning was required either way.

You should really worry a little less about the battery.  I'm sure Sony will provide battery replacement service once the on-board battery is dead.


Edited by purk - 11/17/13 at 11:46pm
post #1083 of 6440
Quote:
Originally Posted by turokrocks View Post
 

Why are you so much into changing the battery?

I never had a failed battery in any of my Sony walkmans!

 

 

The problem with lithium ion batteries is that the more discharge cycles you put them through, the less efficient the negative electrode becomes at holding electrons. This just won't do in our mobile future, so researchers at Stanford University have developed a battery that actually heals itself. It's nearly alive.

Researchers have been working to increase the energy density of modern lithium ion batteries while reducing their weight for a number of years now, with mixed results. One of the most promising advances has come from incorporating silicon into the cathode, which allows it to hold far more electrons than the current oxide mix. However physically silicon swells, up to 300 percent, when filled with electrons and shrink back down as they're expended. This leads the material to crack and splinter within a few discharge cycles.

The self-healing polymer developed by Stanford's Chao Wang and Hui Wu of Beijing's Tsinghua University doesn't actually stop that cracking, it simply instantly repairs it. See, the team deliberately weakened a few key bonds within the polymer so that while those weakened bonds would easily break, they'd be chemically attracted back towards one another, re-bonding as soon as they're snapped apart.

Tomorrow's Rechargeable Batteries Might Never Wear OutSEXPAND

"We found that silicon electrodes lasted 10 times longer when coated with the self-healing polymer, which repaired any cracks within just a few hours," Stanford Professor Zhenan Bao, whose group helped develop the polymer from its own research into flexible electronic robot skins, said in a press statement.

"Self-healing is very important for the survival and long lifetimes of animals and plants," said Wang in the Nov. 19 issue of Nature Chemistry. "We want to incorporate this feature into lithium ion batteries so they will have a long lifetime as well."

The electrodes currently only work for about 100 charge cycles without failing. The team hopes to boost that performance to 500 cycles for cell phones and 3,000 cycles for electric vehicle applications with future iterations. [Stanford University]

I'm not, although it should be a concern to people who outlay this sort of money. I would think that changing the battery would be a nice bonus to extend the unit's life. That research you have shown, is it been widely used now in all batteries or is new?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by purk View Post
 

I think it is steep but still reasonable.  I owned their previous top of the lines walkman, and they are totally worth the asking price and always work without problems.  Yes, they are still more expensive than the DX50 but then again iRiver want nearly twice as much form their AK120.  Also, it is still cheaper than the DX100 price tag of $899.

You should really worry a little less about the battery.  I'm sure Sony will provide battery replacement service once the on-board battery is dead.

I'm not debating if Sony would be of service merely the cost of such service.

post #1084 of 6440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecala View Post
 

I'm not, although it should be a concern to people who outlay this sort of money. I would think that changing the battery would be a nice bonus to extend the unit's life. That research you have shown, is it been widely used now in all batteries or is new?

 

I'm not debating if Sony would be of service merely the cost of such service.

Its relatively new, and I don't think its being implemented yet.

post #1085 of 6440
Quote:
Originally Posted by purk View Post
 

You should really worry a little less about the battery.  I'm sure Sony will provide battery replacement service once the on-board battery is dead.

 

There are plenty of people with old Walkman's (X/A-Series) that are years old on these forums, still in constant use & going strong. Lets be honest now, most people will sell to upgrade when the next new Walkman is released so the battery-question does not enter the equation, I'm one of these, though I kinda regret selling my WM-Z. I'll probably keep the ZX1 as the design is a master-class in good engineering imo and I can't wait to use the 'tape measure', damn those Japanese are so inventive.

 

Also, it takes 10secs to update database on each start up, takes approx.45mins to load 50gb of lossless music (WM-Z/F887), expect the same for ZX1.


Edited by Noble-Geezer - 11/18/13 at 6:55am
post #1086 of 6440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble-Geezer View Post
 

 

There are plenty of people with old Walkman's (X/A-Series) that are years old on these forums, still in constant use & going strong. Lets be honest now, most people will sell to upgrade when the next new Walkman is released so the battery-question does not enter the equation, I'm one of these, though I kinda regret selling my WM-Z. I'll probably keep the ZX1 as the design is a master-class in good engineering imo and I can't wait to use the 'tape measure', damn those Japanese are so inventive.

 

Also, it takes 10secs to update database on each start up, takes approx.45mins to load 50gb of lossless music (WM-Z/F887), expect the same for ZX1.

 

I'm wouldn't class myself as being in the 'worrying' camp, with regard to the ZX1's battery life, but nonetheless, one thing I feel is being overlooked by those of us pointing to the long life of older walkmans batteries is the fact that a device like the ZX1, with it's enormous screen and relatively complex operating system, is a much more power-hungry beast than older devices with extremely simple operating firmware and tiny screens.

 

That, in itself, will have an effect upon how many charge cycles a ZX1 (or 1070) will experience during X number of months/years.

 

 

None of this affects my interest in the ZX1 - I'm far more concerned about the apparently lightweight current delivery (at least on paper).

post #1087 of 6440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

 

I'm wouldn't class myself as being in the 'worrying' camp, with regard to the ZX1's battery life, but nonetheless, one thing I feel is being overlooked by those of us pointing to the long life of older walkmans batteries is the fact that a device like the ZX1, with it's enormous screen and relatively complex operating system, is a much more power-hungry beast than older devices with extremely simple operating firmware and tiny screens.

 

That, in itself, will have an effect upon how many charge cycles a ZX1 (or 1070) will experience during X number of months/years.

 

 

None of this affects my interest in the ZX1 - I'm far more concerned about the apparently lightweight current delivery (at least on paper).

That is a valid point, but the ZX1 is not that much more powerful than the previous Z10x0 or F80x series and I've not read any where with battery problems.  I'm sure that Sony can switch out the bad battery with a new one for a fee.  

post #1088 of 6440
Quote:
Originally Posted by turokrocks View Post
 

Why are you so much into changing the battery?

I never had a failed battery in any of my Sony walkmans...

 

While extremely interesting, this tech won't help with this device. 

 

I've had a batteries for 2 cell phones (one Samsung and one Motorola), a laptop (Lenovo), and plenty of Sonicare toothbrushes all go bad. It happens. 

post #1089 of 6440
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginalb View Post
 

 

While extremely interesting, this tech won't help with this device. 

 

I've had a batteries for 2 cell phones (one Samsung and one Motorola), a laptop (Lenovo), and plenty of Sonicare toothbrushes all go bad. It happens. 

 

I have also had to replace batteries on failed mobile devices in the past, but I don't think that this warrants the battery concern being expressed in this thread.  Have I replaced cell phone batteries, yes, on every cell phone I've owned or helped maintain, no.  Same is true of laptops.  Sonicare toothbrushes I can't comment on except to say that your teeth must be pearly white :-)

 

Also the power use models on all of these devices are going to be completely different that what we should expect with this new Sony.

post #1090 of 6440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

Remember that some CIEMs have impedance curves which dip well below 16 ohms at certain frequencies, so it's not just fullsize headphones that require decent current delivery.

 

 

But most are sensitive. My Clip can drive my UM Merlins with absolutely no trouble at like 2/3 volume. The Fiio E18 I have been using today drives them on low gain at a volume setting of like 2.5. 

post #1091 of 6440
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginalb View Post
 

 

But most are sensitive. My Clip can drive my UM Merlins with absolutely no trouble at like 2/3 volume. The Fiio E18 I have been using today drives them on low gain at a volume setting of like 2.5. 

 

My Cowon J3 can easily drive UM's Miracle to high volumes, but it fails to properly render bass and treble (bass is weak, poorly controlled, and poorly defined; treble is splashy and poorly controlled).

 

It's not about volume. It's about control of the various drivers at frequencies where the impedance represents a challenging load to the amp stage.

 

I don't want to get into a 'sound science' discussion, and I've openly admitted elsewhere on Head-fi that I am not an expert on the topic, but I have a rudimentary understanding and, more importantly, first-hand experience of how awful some multi-BA CIEMs (specifically UM's Miracle, in this instance) can sound when driven by a DAP with too high an output impedance (we don't yet know what OI the NW-ZX1 has) &/or too little current delivery.

 

I haven't abandoned any interest in the NW-ZX1 but I am wary and will be sitting on the fence, watching and waiting with interest, to see how the NW-ZX1 handles CIEMs like the Miracle.


Edited by Mython - 11/18/13 at 11:07am
post #1092 of 6440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

 

My Cowon J3 can easily drive UM's Miracle to high volumes, but it fails to properly render bass and treble (bass is weak, poorly controlled, and poorly defined; treble is splashy and poorly controlled).

 

It's not about volume. It's about control of the various drivers at frequencies where the impedance represents a challenging load to the amp stage...

 

...first-hand experience of how awful some multi-BA CIEMs (specifically UM's Miracle, in this instance) can sound when driven by a DAP with too high an output impedance (we don't yet know what OI the NW-ZX1 has) &/or too little current delivery.

 

 

That's an impedance matching issue. But yeah, Merlins are the same way, you need really low OI, and I am really really hoping this guy has a low OI.


Edited by reginalb - 11/18/13 at 11:53am
post #1093 of 6440

Low OI and some clean nice current to drive ciems with high impedance, relatively difficult to drive *cough cough SE5way cough cough*.

post #1094 of 6440
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberOzL View Post
 

Low OI and some clean nice current to drive ciems with high impedance, relatively difficult to drive *cough cough SE5way cough cough*.

 

I just want access to GM all access, on the go, without all of the EMI I get with the phone and external amp/dacs. I don't think that's too much to ask for! Well, that and everything that you said.

post #1095 of 6440
Quote:
Originally Posted by reginalb View Post
 

 

That's an impedance matching issue. But yeah, Merlins are the same way, you need really low OI, and I am really really hoping this guy has a low OI.

 

 

LOL!

 

I like the way you removed my comment about output impedance, in order to quote me and then reply that it's about output impedance.

 

Gee...thanks! :tongue_smile: 

 

 

But, for the record, I believe it's a combined issue. Even with the lowest output impedance on the planet, the amp still needs a reasonable amount of current in order to grab hold of the drivers and control them to full excursion, and with decent dynamics and pace, rhythm, timing, etc.

 

I've seen people say the Cowon J3 can easily drive dynamic IEMs with aplomb, but I find it lacking, even with my MG6Pros, and it controls the treble poorly with my Denon AH-C 701s.

 

 

.


Edited by Mython - 11/18/13 at 11:55am
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