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Heir 8a vs jh16 freqphase

post #1 of 39
Thread Starter 
Hi
I'm currently using miracles ( balanced through the clas and sr71b).
I would like to try a different type of sound, with more bass and more forward mids.
Now, I know there had been some reviews on the heir 8a and the jh16 (read them all), but to my knowledge, none that was comparing the 8a to the newer freqphase version of the 16a...
If someone had heard both of them, or could give a brief comparison, that would be much appreciated.

tongue.gif
Thanks in advance for your help
Jon
post #2 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by John0405 View Post

Hi
I'm currently using miracles ( balanced through the clas and sr71b).
I would like to try a different type of sound, with more bass and more forward mids.
Now, I know there had been some reviews on the heir 8a and the jh16 (read them all), but to my knowledge, none that was comparing the 8a to the newer freqphase version of the 16a...
If someone had heard both of them, or could give a brief comparison, that would be much appreciated.

tongue.gif
Thanks in advance for your help
Jon

 

I have both and I like both! 

 

Both are fantastic in their own right but it's completely up to your preference which one you would prefer. Obviously both have enhanced bass. 

 

The 8A has a natural presentation except for the exaggerated bass. The treble isn't harsh but extends with ease. It provides a very smooth presentation of music. But this is not to say details are missing. They are there but just not thrown in your face. 

 

The JH16 on the other hand has more of an attack in its presentation. Very detailed and sharp. It's all about clarity. Sometimes the treble gets sibilant but not often. If you like analytical presentation the JH16 is the CIEM for you. 

 

 

Also, the 'freqphase' is however more of a marketing gimmick than anything. I have asked JH audio and read their 'description' of their new revolutionary freqphase technology which was complete nonsense. The phase plot makes it look like there's some advantage to the Freqphase.  There actually isn't quite enough information about the plot and test conditions to re-wrap that into a group delay plot, but if you look at the competitor's phase, it's more than 150 degrees leading vs the Freqphase at 31Hz.  To show that, there has to be a compensation for delay, and that's where this gets ugly.  A group delay plot of either would not show a dramatic difference, and would confuse the consumer into believing that the Freqphase is in fact superior when it isn't.

post #3 of 39
Thread Starter 
Well... That's what I call a detailed answer. Thanks a lot smily_headphones1.gif
The thing is, I find my miracles quite boring. Just a matter of preference I guess, since I realize they're quite competent, technically speaking.
The 8a have a better design overall I think, compared to the 16a...
I read in the inner fidelity reviews the freqphase actually improved the sound of the 13a... But I'll trust your take on this one.
I will listen to these at home, but most of the time when I'm out and about.
Anyway... I just wanted to know if one was superior to the other. Apparently not.
Thanks again smily_headphones1.gif
post #4 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by John0405 View Post

Well... That's what I call a detailed answer. Thanks a lot smily_headphones1.gif
The thing is, I find my miracles quite boring. Just a matter of preference I guess, since I realize they're quite competent, technically speaking.
The 8a have a better design overall I think, compared to the 16a...
I read in the inner fidelity reviews the freqphase actually improved the sound of the 13a... But I'll trust your take on this one.
I will listen to these at home, but most of the time when I'm out and about.
Anyway... I just wanted to know if one was superior to the other. Apparently not.
Thanks again smily_headphones1.gif

I am sure there is some improvement in the new freqphase model compared to the older one but it's not some revolutionary difference. It is probably a newly revised tuning of the drivers.
post #5 of 39
Thread Starter 
I'll go for the 8a then. I've seen some pictures of them that were quite stunning...
post #6 of 39
Thread Starter 
By the way... Did you try the heir balanced?
Thanks
post #7 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by John0405 View Post

By the way... Did you try the heir balanced?
Thanks
what do yoy mean by balanced?
post #8 of 39
Thread Starter 
I'm using the sr71b. I was referring to the balanced output of the amp, which I'm currently using with the miracles.
post #9 of 39
Oh i see nope
post #10 of 39
I am sorry to answer a bit on the side, bit some other ciems might have more bass and forward mids. The se5 and NT6 Pro will have more bass, not more mids though. The Fitear 335 will def have more bass and forward mids.
post #11 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by uchihaitachi View Post
 

 

I have both and I like both!

 

Both are fantastic in their own right but it's completely up to your preference which one you would prefer. Obviously both have enhanced bass.

 

The 8A has a natural presentation except for the exaggerated bass. The treble isn't harsh but extends with ease. It provides a very smooth presentation of music. But this is not to say details are missing. They are there but just not thrown in your face.

 

The JH16 on the other hand has more of an attack in its presentation. Very detailed and sharp. It's all about clarity. Sometimes the treble gets sibilant but not often. If you like analytical presentation the JH16 is the CIEM for you.

 

 

Also, the 'freqphase' is however more of a marketing gimmick than anything. I have asked JH audio and read their 'description' of their new revolutionary freqphase technology which was complete nonsense. The phase plot makes it look like there's some advantage to the Freqphase.  There actually isn't quite enough information about the plot and test conditions to re-wrap that into a group delay plot, but if you look at the competitor's phase, it's more than 150 degrees leading vs the Freqphase at 31Hz.  To show that, there has to be a compensation for delay, and that's where this gets ugly.  A group delay plot of either would not show a dramatic difference, and would confuse the consumer into believing that the Freqphase is in fact superior when it isn't.

 

Yet those that have owned both versions of the 13 all prefer the new one. There's no way to know what the group delay would show without actually seeing it. I'd also be interested to see one or a pulse response.

 

There is nothing wrong with the graph they show other than the comparator being completely unknown and it perhaps being an extreme example. Anybody worthy of ready a graph understands that it doesn't matter where you start a phase curve. Only how much it deviates form straight. Also, if the competitor started phase inverted (which many earphones are), there is no compensation. It starts exactly 180* out. Probably not a coincidence.

 

I tend to look at goldenears for phase measurements of known quantities.


Edited by goodvibes - 9/8/13 at 8:20am
post #12 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post
 

 

Yet those that have owned both versions of the 13 all prefer the new one. There's no way to know what the group delay would show without actually seeing it. I'd also be interested to see one or a pulse response.

 

I don't doubt that it sounds better but I am pretty sure it's either due to better tuning or a new crossover network.

post #13 of 39

and if the drivers are the same and frequency response effectively so, why would the new crossover and construction sound better?

post #14 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post
 

and if the drivers are the same and frequency response effectively so, why would the new crossover and construction sound better?

 

My guess is as good as yours, but assuming the tuning hasn't changed, the crossover network may have been further split up to improve sound separation. 

I forget how many drivers the JH13 has but similar to how the Westone 3 has been designed compared to its other three driver models.

post #15 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by John0405 View Post

I'll go for the 8a then. I've seen some pictures of them that were quite stunning...

If you go for 8a or jh 16, make sure you have discuss about your design.

I was using my back up design for 8.a because heir audio found out my design is not work well with the glow in the dark function and end up i use my back up design

Quote:
Originally Posted by uchihaitachi View Post
 

 

I have both and I like both! 

 

Both are fantastic in their own right but it's completely up to your preference which one you would prefer. Obviously both have enhanced bass. 

 

The 8A has a natural presentation except for the exaggerated bass. The treble isn't harsh but extends with ease. It provides a very smooth presentation of music. But this is not to say details are missing. They are there but just not thrown in your face. 

 

The JH16 on the other hand has more of an attack in its presentation. Very detailed and sharp. It's all about clarity. Sometimes the treble gets sibilant but not often. If you like analytical presentation the JH16 is the CIEM for you. 

 

 

Also, the 'freqphase' is however more of a marketing gimmick than anything. I have asked JH audio and read their 'description' of their new revolutionary freqphase technology which was complete nonsense. The phase plot makes it look like there's some advantage to the Freqphase.  There actually isn't quite enough information about the plot and test conditions to re-wrap that into a group delay plot, but if you look at the competitor's phase, it's more than 150 degrees leading vs the Freqphase at 31Hz.  To show that, there has to be a compensation for delay, and that's where this gets ugly.  A group delay plot of either would not show a dramatic difference, and would confuse the consumer into believing that the Freqphase is in fact superior when it isn't.

 

I only have 8.a and i am agree What itachi mention about 8.a , but i found the treble is too smooth which may not fit to ballad genre.

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