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Walkman NWZ F886 officialy announced!! [192khz/24bits] - Page 52

post #766 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by sardar17 View Post
 


i have walkman e474 and my brother has s-series and he just sold his z series.

 

my limited point is that apart from z and x series,clip+ is better.i hear both everyday.

 

of z and x series,,,compare them with dx 50 and x3........................no one can deny that x3 and dx50 will sound better and have better amps as well.interface is another matter.this is only on audio quality

Obviously the SQ of those bulky players will be better, but what's the point when your media player crashes or the playing speed gets faster?
I think the new F is better than the Z. Better form factor, tactile buttons, Jellybean and less warmth (my Z's warm sound sig. made me sick at times).
So I think it's a pretty solid product and has can deliver even more if rooted and with some mods installed.

Even if it's digital, if it sounds good to one's ears, they aren't supposed to give a rat's arse about the digital/analogue thing.


Edited by sicko - 12/17/13 at 4:58am
post #767 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by sardar17 View Post
 

 

yes this is spot on and here is the problem.

 

if u wanna position it as an audiophile grade player,u need to put in those chips!!

digital amps like s-master ain't gonna cut much ice and when u pay 259 pounds for 32 gb u expect something better than a standard chip otherwise get an ipod and use power amp!!??at least u get a camera,better screen and sexy form factor


They're not positioning it as one. It's the members here that are treating it like one just because it supports high-resolution files. There's a reason why they market the PHA-2 in conjunction with the F880 and ZX1.

 

I'm not complaining about the sound quality of the 886 at all, and neither should anyone else buying the 886. Someone asked me how the SQ compares to the X3, and I answered truthfully.

 

However, I disagree with "must" putting in a ΔΣ or R2R chip --- there are always ways to do D/A conversion without relying on a third-party chip maker, especially when you're a giant like Sony that can design and fabricate its own ICs. Do you know proprietary details to the S-Master HX that the rest of the public doesn't know about? I somehow doubt it.

 

You're assuming that just because Sony isn't publishing specifications for its chip, that it somehow isn't up to snuff. They don't publish because it's their right not to. They don't publish performance characteristics on the PHA-1 or PHA-2 either, even though they advertise it as having a WM8740 and TPA6120A2. Why? Because it's marketing. Sony knows that audiophiles get weak in the knees when others utter the terms, "Wolfson" or "Texas Instruments".

 

My criticisms for the sound quality, taken on its own, were the less than stellar stereo crosstalk management, thin bass, and electronic interference from the other features. The ZX1 is said to improve on these things by using superior (but larger) passive components, a better, cleaner power supply, and removal of certain extraneous features. I can't claim to hear whether it's doing 16-bits resolution or 20-bits of resolution, so until someone takes a DSIII or AP SYS to the new Walkmans and shows that it's somehow inferior in SNR/THD/IMD/etc., I'd advise you from making sweeping statements on its supposed lack of performance.

post #768 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by sardar17 View Post

once again as the heading suggests its a DIGITAL amp and not a dedicated hardware amp.

 

its just like digital zoom on a camera vs the original optical zoom,,,,there is a diff


Wow, okay. I'm trying to say this in the nicest way possible, but you really need to get a grasp of the terms "digital", "analog", "hardware", and "software". Despite what it might seem like, S-Master does not work like digital zoom on a camera. Also, despite what it might seem, all other DAC designs are also just "estimations". Digital-to-analog conversion is by nature an imperfect science. Whether a ladder DAC or sigma-delta does it better, is up to debate.

 

I highly recommend you read this material regarding PWM:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation

http://fab.cba.mit.edu/classes/MIT/961.04/topics/pwm.pdf

http://www.ti.com/lit/an/spraa88a/spraa88a.pdf

post #769 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 


Wow, okay. I'm trying to say this in the nicest way possible, but you really need to get a grasp of the terms "digital", "analog", "hardware", and "software". Despite what it might seem like, S-Master does not work like digital zoom on a camera. Also, despite what it might seem, all other DAC designs are also just "estimations". Digital-to-analog conversion is by nature an imperfect science. Whether a ladder DAC or sigma-delta does it better, is up to debate.

 

I highly recommend you read this material regarding PWM:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation

http://fab.cba.mit.edu/classes/MIT/961.04/topics/pwm.pdf

http://www.ti.com/lit/an/spraa88a/spraa88a.pd

all right,will read more:)


Edited by sardar17 - 12/17/13 at 5:15am
post #770 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicko View Post
 

Obviously the SQ of those bulky players will be better, but what's the point when your media player crashes or the playing speed gets faster?
I think the new F is better than the Z. Better form factor, tactile buttons, Jellybean and less warmth (my Z's warm sound sig. made me sick at times).
So I think it's a pretty solid product and has can deliver even more if rooted and with some mods installed.

Even if it's digital, if it sounds good to one's ears, they aren't supposed to give a rat's arse about the digital/analogue thing.


+1

 

but its pretty expensive.i would have liked same linux based interface as on lower walkmans like s class or e class.

 

android just drains battery.

 

i am just looking to fiio x1,if its bug free i will get one

post #771 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by sardar17 View Post
 


+1

 

but its pretty expensive.i would have liked same linux based interface as on lower walkmans like s class or e class.

 

android just drains battery.

 

i am just looking to fiio x1,if its bug free i will get one

Actually, Android is Linux-based.
You can root it and disable all those extra services. It's not Android, it's the massive touch-screen and those 1080p displays that are a power-hog on Android phones.

post #772 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicko View Post
 

Actually, Android is Linux-based.
You can root it and disable all those extra services. It's not Android, it's the massive touch-screen and those 1080p displays that are a power-hog on Android phones.


i meant non android type linux which is just damn simple(i would admit though that i forgot that android has linux shell only:biggrin:)

 

i meant android on f886 and not in general.

 

i cannot root my older xperia mini(have nexus 4 now) as i have to first downgrade it to 2.3 and then root.damn too complicated,i wanted to increase the clock speeds:atsmile:

post #773 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by sardar17 View Post  no need to get angry mate

i am right when i say its not a hardware amp consisting of dedicated capacitors and such.there is nothing wrong in my statement.


LOL, I'm not at all angry. I merely believe you're making misguided statements, so I'm just trying to let you see what's really going on. Using a "proper" DAC chip, decoupling capacitors, and opamps in the signal path isn't the "only" or "correct" way of doing things. You're merely trying to take a digital signal and trying to represent it in a way that accurately reflects what was originally recorded. What goes on in between just plain doesn't matter.

 

I'm not "defending Sony's honor" or anything like that --- this is my first Sony product in quite a few years, because a good deal of their stuff actually annoy me because of the strange, counterproductive choices they make. However, I will say that their engineers almost always know what they're doing. Whether Sony's product managers' vision of what a high-resolution DAP should be, matches the vision of what the typical audiophile believes, is the real question.


Edited by tomscy2000 - 12/17/13 at 5:28am
post #774 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by sardar17 View Post

 

 

i meant android on f886 and not in general.

Sony have actually got rid of all those extra background apps. If you don't play games or load any poorly-programmed stupid battery-sucking widgets, then I think it can provide some serious music time. When you look at products like the DX100 (provides 6 hrs of playtime), you actually start to fall in love with this player.

post #775 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 


LOL, I'm not at all angry. I merely believe you're making misguided statements, so I'm just trying to let you see what's really going on. Using a "proper" DAC chip, decoupling capacitors, and opamps in the signal path isn't the "only" or "correct" way of doing things. You're merely trying to take a digital signal and trying to represent it in a way that accurately reflects what was originally recorded. What goes on in between just plain doesn't matter.

 

I'm not "defending Sony's honor" or anything like that --- this is my first Sony product in quite a few years, because a good deal of their stuff actually annoy me because of the strange, counterproductive choices they make. However, I will say that their engineers almost always know what they're doing. Whether Sony's product managers' vision of what a high-resolution DAP should be, matches the vision of what the typical audiophile believes, is the real question.


**** man

i deleted the comment(mine) almost instantenously,u still picked it up:deadhorse:

post #776 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicko View Post
 

Sony have actually got rid of all those extra background apps. If you don't play games or load any poorly-programmed stupid battery-sucking widgets, then I think it can provide some serious music time. When you look at products like the DX100 (provides 6 hrs of playtime), you actually start to fall in love with this player.


for the same reason am not getting dx 50 and x3

 

too many compromises

post #777 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicko View Post
 

Sony have actually got rid of all those extra background apps. If you don't play games or load any poorly-programmed stupid battery-sucking widgets, then I think it can provide some serious music time. When you look at products like the DX100 (provides 6 hrs of playtime), you actually start to fall in love with this player.


When I use the walkman for music only, and turn it off completely when I'm not gonna use it, I didn't even feel any difference (comparing with non-android walkmans). But turn on the wifi and get online, or use some apps, battery dies so fast you can't even see it. It's actually stupid, if I'm not gonna be able to use andorid then why is this player comes with android anyway? I wish it didn't.

post #778 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirwyn View Post
 


When I use the walkman for music only, and turn it off completely when I'm not gonna use it, I didn't even feel any difference (comparing with non-android walkmans). But turn on the wifi and get online, or use some apps, battery dies so fast you can't even see it. It's actually stupid, if I'm not gonna be able to use andorid then why is this player comes with android anyway? I wish it didn't.


yup and by that way it would have been way more economical too.

 

plus sony should stop giving iem's with these players,instead reduce the price by 30-40$

post #779 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirwyn View Post
 


When I use the walkman for music only, and turn it off completely when I'm not gonna use it, I didn't even feel any difference (comparing with non-android walkmans). But turn on the wifi and get online, or use some apps, battery dies so fast you can't even see it. It's actually stupid, if I'm not gonna be able to use andorid then why is this player comes with android anyway? I wish it didn't.

Delete the browser app then :D.
You can use it with power supply connected or maybe low brightness. You can't have a big battery and a thin design on the same plate.

post #780 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicko View Post
 

Delete the browser app then :D.
You can use it with power supply connected or maybe low brightness. You can't have a big battery and a thin design on the same plate.


can the battery be replaced??after opening the back plate?

 

ppl from ifixit need to check that

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