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Walkman NWZ F886 officialy announced!! [192khz/24bits] - Page 12

post #166 of 1361
Now that you guys burst the bubble on this with the Tegra 2 talk, isnt the Z & F walkmans also based on Tegra 2?

After 2 years of development I would expect Sony to come out with newer chips unless they are scavenging from older units that didnt sell.
This is another reason why Sony looses the battle with other companies. I'm no apple fan but when they release newer ipod touches, they do add in newer chips.

Sacrificing all this just for sound is not worth it IMO.

When I buy something in 2013, I dont expect it to have features from 2010.

All this chip talk has me started craving fro potato chips.
post #167 of 1361
Quote:
Originally Posted by AUDIOBREEDER View Post

Now that you guys burst the bubble on this with the Tegra 2 talk, isnt the Z & F walkmans also based on Tegra 2?

After 2 years of development I would expect Sony to come out with newer chips unless they are scavenging from older units that didnt sell.
This is another reason why Sony looses the battle with other companies. I'm no apple fan but when they release newer ipod touches, they do add in newer chips.

Sacrificing all this just for sound is not worth it IMO.

When I buy something in 2013, I dont expect it to have features from 2010.

All this chip talk has me started craving fro potato chips.

 

 

What are they sacrificing? I don't get it.

 

I don't see the need to use a new chip 'just because'. If all the are basically adding is hi-rez, we're not talking a major difference here. In real life, you probably wouldn't notice a new chip anyway. And what is this 2 years of development stuff? This is just an evolution of the F, not a whole new thing.

post #168 of 1361
Quote:
Originally Posted by FenderP View Post
 

 

 

What are they sacrificing? I don't get it.

 

I don't see the need to use a new chip 'just because'. If all the are basically adding is hi-rez, we're not talking a major difference here. In real life, you probably wouldn't notice a new chip anyway. And what is this 2 years of development stuff? This is just an evolution of the F, not a whole new thing.

 

To some, the chips matter. A few here are audiophile-techie hybrids and wan't to improve the sound of the player through the open-source nature of the android platform and the Tegra 2 causes problems here as there are almost no resources available to develop anything for the device.

And if it is just an "evolution", Sony should provide a JB software update for the F and Z like Apple does for their iPods. Customer Service is the main point here. Sony doesn't value customers as they should.

post #169 of 1361
Quote:
Originally Posted by FenderP View Post
 

 

 

And not sure where you're getting at with quality. Both SQ wise and build wise, Sony makes some of the best stuff. Not always perfect ... not saying t hat.

 

I can agree with that. The only complaint I've had with the Walkman DAPs I've owned (past and present) is that they're natively MTP devices, without a Mass Storage mode in the options. They always are built solidly and sound very nice though.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sicko View Post
 

 

To some, the chips matter. A few here are audiophile-techie hybrids and wan't to improve the sound of the player through the open-source nature of the android platform and the Tegra 2 causes problems here as there are almost no resources available to develop anything for the device.

And if it is just an "evolution", Sony should provide a JB software update for the F and Z like Apple does for their iPods. Customer Service is the main point here. Sony doesn't value customers as they should.

 

Since when does Apple offer a Jellybean update for their iPods? :tongue:

 

OK, OK,  I know what you meant.....but Sony is not the only manufacturer that doesn't offer Android upgrades to older devices. Ask someone with a Cowon Android player, or a Samsung Galaxy 4.0/4.2/5.0 player where their factory supplied Jellybean updates are. (at least the Samsung owners might have some options on XDA forums, etc.)

post #170 of 1361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achmedisdead View Post
 

Since when does Apple offer a Jellybean update for their iPods? :tongue:

 

OK, OK,  I know what you meant.....but Sony is not the only manufacturer that doesn't offer Android upgrades to older devices. Ask someone with a Cowon Android player, or a Samsung Galaxy 4.0/4.2/5.0 player where their factory supplied Jellybean updates are. (at least the Samsung owners might have some options on XDA forums, etc.)

Cowon and Sony are very different. Cowon is comparatively a smaller company. Look at some manufacturer at the same scale like Apple or Sammy. They provide prompt updates.

And yes, if they don't wanna do that, they should give us a more "developer friendly" chipset and a better stock recovery. I mean, you can easily unbrick a Samsung PMP, but a Sony, NO WAY!!

post #171 of 1361
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicko View Post
 

Cowon and Sony are very different. Cowon is comparatively a smaller company. Look at some manufacturer at the same scale like Apple or Sammy. They provide prompt updates.
 

No they aren't. They're for profit companies, period. Sony I would also offer DOES offer incremental upgrades even if it's not Android versions. They added, say, FLAC support back to the Z after the F series got it. I would say that's more important than an Android update.

 

And contrary to popular belief, sometimes updates are bad. If it's working, stable, etc. - why do you NEED an update? The latest and greatest for the sake of it doesn't fly for me. Look at people who have some phones (including Sammy) where they're stuck at a certain Android version. Are they bricked? Far from it. Perception != reality here.


Edited by FenderP - 9/20/13 at 12:26pm
post #172 of 1361
Quote:
Originally Posted by FenderP View Post
 

No they aren't. They're for profit companies, period. Sony I would also offer DOES offer incremental upgrades even if it's not Android versions. They added, say, FLAC support back to the Z after the F series got it. I would say that's more important than an Android update.

 

And contrary to popular belief, sometimes updates are bad. If it's working, stable, etc. - why do you NEED an update? The latest and greatest for the sake of it doesn't fly for me. Look at people who have some phones (including Sammy) where they're stuck at a certain Android version. Are they bricked? Far from it. Perception != reality here.

 

Okay, the thing about the JB update is Project Butter. Don't you want a lag-free UI?
Project Butter tries to provide Android users with iOS like smoothness by trying to maintain the screen framerate at 60fps. You might not want that, but some of us do. Along with that, I would love to test out Sony's ClearAudio+ tech on a decent audio device.

Providing updates for a company is more like a way of saying "we haven't forgotten you" to it's old consumers. Some people in developing countries can't afford to buy the latest and greatest models just as they hit the shelves.

post #173 of 1361
Quote:
Originally Posted by FenderP View Post
 

 

I don't see the need to use a new chip 'just because'.

Newer chips work on 'low power' meaning more battery life and more life for your dap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FenderP View Post
 

 

 

What are they sacrificing? I don't get it.

Sound.

 

Just by bringing in DAPs that focus on sound and not updating for example as noticed 'chips' will not make make ppl happy.

 

Please think before you post. I'm starting to think you dont have a clue how something old can benefit with something new.

post #174 of 1361
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuartfang View Post
 

I think I'm going to overlook the fact that it has Android, because I'm just going to use it like I used my X1060. For music and music only, which this player was meant to be by Sony. No matter how many sound files I had on my Walkman, loseless or lossy; how I tweaked EQ, presets, or sound enhancement settings, it never lagged at all! I think we're exaggerating on it having Tegra 2; Acer and Motorola tablets didn't lag or reboot because they used Tegra 2? They seemed smooth overall (from researching a few many threads on XDA). You don't expect AK100, ANV3, or iBasso to play Angry Birds do you?

 

Maybe Sony should have just gave it Walkman's UI (present in X1000 series) and called it the X2000 series (X2040 16GB, X2050 32GB, X2060 64GB), give it a 3.5" screen or smaller, because if they put Android as OS, some techy or geeky people are gonna expect it to perform like their smartphones or tablets, and gonna wanna do all kinds of app-oriented or web/internet things with it; make it a pure DAP, because hey, Android enthusiasts are so hard to please sometimes! It'll probably be cheaper if they did that, too! But don't forget, this is just a DAP with a price tag of some 300 euros (pre-order)! It doesn't even have a camera, so why bother to talk about SD card slots? How long are you going to be away from your computer or home to need over 64GB of music files on it? Or you wanna put other files other than music on it? For that you can buy a really fast performing tablet for 129 dollars instead, some of them Chinese ones even have dual micro-SD slots (Cube, Onda, Viewsonic, Huawei). Don't expect the Walkman to be your twitter machine or facebook central; you probably already have a smartphone for that!

 

Sorry for the rant, but in my honest opinion, we should see it as this: Sony is offering us a hi-fi DAP, that has the ability to do more than its nature; by giving it Android OS, users can use it to their convenience (maybe set calender, look up some blogs occasionally, or download some neat/useful audio-related apps like PCM recording apps or sound-simulating apps). It really isn't your "developer" device, but the Android is just there to make us happier, not to complain about it having the outdated Tegra 2 (which I find really, really silly). I'm sorry if I'm sounding offensive, but some people take things for granted and expect a DAP to do more than its job, just because it has Android!

 

On another note, you guys check out the DAC and micro receiver and hi-fi speaker system Sony announced as well with the F886? Looks kind of overpriced to me, especially that DAC. Don't know how it'll sound considering it's Sony's first computer/desktop oriented DAC. http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/sony-backs-hi-res-audio-big-time/

 

I can't agree with you. One word: Spotify. Two words, Google Music Unlimited. Three words, Sony Music Unlimited. You get the idea.

 
I don't know about you but I have long abandoned the hard process of searching, downloading, ripping CDs, all those processes. I moved on to buying digital music and even lazier, I'm now just subscribing to Spotify Premium. All music I am interested in get pushed and automated updated to my subscribed playlists. Yes I don't expect my walkman to play angry birds, but I intend to utilize the music subscription services on the android platform.
 
Now I've owned almost every generation of the A8xx, then the Z, then the F807. I had the same idea as you described above, didn't care if it can run android any better. But after two years of the Z & F, I only wish it can run it smoother. No matter what, the same chip Tegra 2 as used in the old Z & F, would be a disgrace.
 
And let's just say you don't expect your walkman to run android apps. Then what's the need of buying a F? Even, from sony's point of view, why the need of using android to start with if they are not designing this thing to run anything decent on the platform? It's just a flawed logic.
 
If they designed such a thing, there must be a reason, and definitely should expect the customers wanting to utilize it. Putting it in the product then trying to convince the customers that "you don't need it anyway" is just nonsense. 
post #175 of 1361
Quote:
Originally Posted by AUDIOBREEDER View Post
 

Newer chips work on 'low power' meaning more battery life and more life for your dap.

Sound.

 

Just by bringing in DAPs that focus on sound and not updating for example as noticed 'chips' will not make make ppl happy.

 

Please think before you post. I'm starting to think you dont have a clue how something old can benefit with something new.

I work in the tech industry. Maybe it's you who need to understand how things work.I always have one foot forward, one step in the present, and two steps back with my customers. Supportablity is the biggest concertn with not updating thing like, for example, OSes. But why should I bore you with trivial details? It frustrates me to no end sometimes how people can want to run a 10 year old OS like Windows Server 2003 (for example) and SQL Server 2005 where supportability is long gone and you're not getting patches - especially for things like security.

 

The nature of hardware is that it works. Let's say you go from an HP DL585 G5 to a G6. It's evolutionary, not revolutionary. Hardware is often (but not always) less of a problem than software.

 

The same thing applies here. Sony DOES tweak some HW in there (such as their S-Master amp), but for Their purposes, the other chipset they have deemed good enough.

 

I'm not sure you understand how this stuff works. Manufacturers generally look to reuse where they can. Some are different, sure, but Sony tends to advance the page every few years. I would bet the newer ZX1 (different thread on this one) may use something else.

 

Sony, Apple, A&K, Pono< Cowon ... they won't satisfy everyone. You like what they do or don't, but you're not going to change what they do.

post #176 of 1361
Quote:
Originally Posted by vedye View Post
 

 

I can't agree with you. One word: Spotify. Two words, Google Music Unlimited. Three words, Sony Music Unlimited. You get the idea.

 
I don't know about you but I have long abandoned the hard process of searching, downloading, ripping CDs, all those processes. I moved on to buying digital music and even lazier, I'm now just subscribing to Spotify Premium. All music I am interested in get pushed and automated updated to my subscribed playlists. Yes I don't expect my walkman to play angry birds, but I intend to utilize the music subscription services on the android platform.
 
Now I've owned almost every generation of the A8xx, then the Z, then the F807. I had the same idea as you described above, didn't care if it can run android any better. But after two years of the Z & F, I only wish it can run it smoother. No matter what, the same chip Tegra 2 as used in the old Z & F, would be a disgrace.
 
And let's just say you don't expect your walkman to run android apps. Then what's the need of buying a F? Even, from sony's point of view, why the need of using android to start with if they are not designing this thing to run anything decent on the platform? It's just a flawed logic.
 
If they designed such a thing, there must be a reason, and definitely should expect the customers wanting to utilize it. Putting it in the product then trying to convince the customers that "you don't need it anyway" is just nonsense.

 

I don't use any music subscription service FWIW.

 

The fact is, Sony makes Walkmans with Android. Not like any of us have a choice that way. Like I pointed out, it's easier to maintain, say, apps when you're not doing all proprietary stuff like developing the OS, too. They can use bits of code elsewhere (like, say, in the Xperia phones). Common platform stuff - reduces development costs. I don't think they thought way too much beyond that. Sony is all in on Android from their tablets to their phones to TVs and Walkmans (and other stuff). None of this is rocket science.

 

Having said that, I do agree that they allow you to install apps and the Walkmans have both bluetooth and WiFi, so now there is the expectation that they will work well with apps and networked stuff. That said, it isn't Sony's job to test every application out there. That's like blaming Microsoft because some third party vendor has an application that does not support, say, Windows 8. MS can't force the vendor to do so, but in the process, you get the customer angry. Chicken, egg.

post #177 of 1361

Hows about we look at it this way... We are all already willing to pay upwards of $300 to $1000+ for a device that will do audio quite exceptionally. Considering some of us ARE indeed tekys/hybrids, why not make it extra work it by tossing is a few other goodies.Considering the walkman Z it's should be apparent to a baby within the womb that Sony are our best bet at this hybrid device that actually delivers the best of both worlds.

 

And considering the situation surrounding NVIDIA and the Tegra line you'd have to be crazy not to banish the thing in some regards It just find it ridiculous that some people here are in an archaic enough mindset to toss aside features and power just because THEY in particular have no use for such features (or in itself to not realize there 'hybrids' here, as someone earlier coined).

 

Otherwise carry on, I had my 2¢ :tongue:

post #178 of 1361

And if it's like this, I installed the latest Audio Engine on my cousin's Xperia Z and couldn't believe my ears. I mean the Xperia Z has pretty ****ty audio, but with the mod I kinda felt the sound was a tad more refined and than my Walkman Z and the listening levels were good too. This is what a rooted device can be. There are so many possibilities.

A lot of people here use their Walkmans with amps, so if a phone can perform equally (at the least), then why bother having a dedicated PMP? Just utilize your other pocket or the same space for a battery kit.

Also, the Xperias have different modes that help you to easily unbrick them if something goes wrong. Why doesn't the Walkman have the same? This simply shows Sony's lack of support for their audio division.

And, for devices like the new Walkmans, the term PMP (Portable Media Player) is used. Media is a broader term relative to the word music. If Sony themselves intend that the device play games and stuff, then why are you crying over it? Now it's not a completely music-centred device.


Edited by sicko - 9/22/13 at 12:32am
post #179 of 1361
Quote:
Originally Posted by sicko View Post
 

And if it's like this, I installed the latest Audio Engine on my cousin's Xperia Z and couldn't believe my ears. I mean the Xperia Z has pretty ****ty audio, but with the mod I kinda felt the sound was a tad more refined and than my Walkman Z and the listening levels were good too. This is what a rooted device can be. There are so many possibilities.

A lot of people here use their Walkmans with amps, so if a phone can perform equally (at the least), then why bother having a dedicated PMP? Just utilize your other pocket or the same space for a battery kit.

Also, the Xperias have different modes that help you to easily unbrick them if something goes wrong. Why doesn't the Walkman have the same? This simply shows Sony's lack of support for their audio division.

And, for devices like the new Walkmans, the term PMP (Portable Media Player) is used. Media is a broader term relative to the word music. If Sony themselves intend that the device play games and stuff, then why are you crying over it? Now it's not a completely music-centred device.

 

Who's crying? I'm not. DAP/PMP, whatever. The old non-Android Walkmans could do video, too. THey're still DAPs to me, much in the same way people still use the term PC.

 

I don't see the point of schlepping an amp, but that's immaterial here. The whole point about portability is to lighten my load.

 

Sony designed the Walkman software to take advantage of whatever internal goodness they devised. Some features (like the NC stuff) only work with certain headphones. You get the picture,

 

I have other Android devices and never rooted them. I get why some people do, but I'm more of the if it's not right out of the box for you, don't buy it. I've got too much to do to worry about tweaking things.

 

You like to tweak. I get it. I don't see the point for what I do, but mazel tov if that floats your boat and you want to do it.

post #180 of 1361
Quote:
Originally Posted by FenderP View Post
 

 

Who's crying? I'm not. DAP/PMP, whatever. The old non-Android Walkmans could do video, too. THey're still DAPs to me, much in the same way people still use the term PC.

 

I don't see the point of schlepping an amp, but that's immaterial here. The whole point about portability is to lighten my load.

 

Sony designed the Walkman software to take advantage of whatever internal goodness they devised. Some features (like the NC stuff) only work with certain headphones. You get the picture,

 

I have other Android devices and never rooted them. I get why some people do, but I'm more of the if it's not right out of the box for you, don't buy it. I've got too much to do to worry about tweaking things.

 

You like to tweak. I get it. I don't see the point for what I do, but mazel tov if that floats your boat and you want to do it.

 

So, the 4.3 inch screen on the Z was meant for the visually-impaired?

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