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post #31 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by griff2 View Post

 

The problem with the Naim, as traditionally with a lot of British Hi-Fi, is that it doesn't really truly understand music.  From my perspective (as a Brit BTW), music is something you feel rather than hear, but a lot of British manufactures go for detail for detail's sake.  Very annoyingly British manufacturers are also very snobbish; I've been into Hi-Fi since the mid-70's and overseas Hi-Fi, particularly American, was then viewed (by the British Hi-Fi press and manufacturers) as being overly coloured and just not accurate (I believe that view still exists, although now it is not expressed).  My own experience is just the opposite: I think British Hi-Fi  sound's overly analytical and just doesn't seem to capture the essence of the music.  I Have a Dac V1 and whilst seemingly it conveys the detail of the music and superficially the emotion, in reality it doesn't convey the performance at all.  I much prefer the CI Audio kit I have which, in my opinion, genuinely conveys the musical performance.   Just my 2 cents worth.

It all depends on what type of item it is. Quite a few British DACs have gone for overly clinical sounding DAC chips. But DACs like the Rega have struck a good balance between detail and musicality with its Wolfson chip. And that chip itself is British.

But when it comes to turntables, the coloured sounding LP12 has been all the rage for many in the British press. I had to get rid of mine within a month of buying it. I just couldn't play any of my reggae, House, or Drum&Bass on it. The bass was devoid of force.

I had a quick listen to the Naim at a recent meet. I tried some of my own test tracks and I have to say that I won't be saving up for one. The Benchmark makes a better effort in trying to be clinical if that is your thing. But neither perform well in the bass stakes as far as my own taste is concerned.

post #32 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by griff2 View Post
 

+1

 

The problem with the Naim, as traditionally with a lot of British Hi-Fi, is that it doesn't really truly understand music.  From my perspective (as a Brit BTW), music is something you feel rather than hear, but a lot of British manufactures go for detail for detail's sake.  Very annoyingly British manufacturers are also very snobbish; I've been into Hi-Fi since the mid-70's and overseas Hi-Fi, particularly American, was then viewed (by the British Hi-Fi press and manufacturers) as being overly coloured and just not accurate (I believe that view still exists, although now it is not expressed).  My own experience is just the opposite: I think British Hi-Fi  sound's overly analytical and just doesn't seem to capture the essence of the music.  I Have a Dac V1 and whilst seemingly it conveys the detail of the music and superficially the emotion, in reality it doesn't convey the performance at all.  I much prefer the CI Audio kit I have which, in my opinion, genuinely conveys the musical performance.   Just my 2 cents worth.

 

I agree with that but how can you feel the music if you can't hear it?

 

It's the small details that IMO make music come alive, along with other attributes, and sound real.

 

I used to own a £10000 Naim TT based system years ago. Detail was never it's strong point.

 

I have read many times in reviews of Naim gear along the lines of  "loses out on fine detail and dynamics but gets to the essence, meaning and emotion of the music"

post #33 of 64
naim gear isnt known for being overly detailed. These british manufacturers who have a rep for producing analytical and clinical gear would include the likes of cyrus
post #34 of 64
Naims i find makes for a pacey and exciting first listen. The novelty wears out and I end up looking for something more refined.
post #35 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxide View Post
 

It all depends on what type of item it is. Quite a few British DACs have gone for overly clinical sounding DAC chips. But DACs like the Rega have struck a good balance between detail and musicality with its Wolfson chip. And that chip itself is British.

But when it comes to turntables, the coloured sounding LP12 has been all the rage for many in the British press. I had to get rid of mine within a month of buying it. I just couldn't play any of my reggae, House, or Drum&Bass on it. The bass was devoid of force.

I had a quick listen to the Naim at a recent meet. I tried some of my own test tracks and I have to say that I won't be saving up for one. The Benchmark makes a better effort in trying to be clinical if that is your thing. But neither perform well in the bass stakes as far as my own taste is concerned.

It's Interesting you mention the Rega, I did a home audition of the Rega DAC when it was first released and was completely underwhelmed - it seemed soft, lifeless and lacking in (for want of a better word) passion.  I eventually opted for the  CI Audio VDA 2, which I bought without listening, mainly because I liked what Dusty Vawter did when he was with Audio Alchemy - I wasn't disappointed.  The Wolfson is indeed British, it's used in the Fiio X3, which I partner with the SR-71A, a very musical combination. 

 

My reference system is real musicians playing real instruments, but I believe a lot of Hi-Fi equipment, in the UK at least, is voiced to please the magazine reviewers.

post #36 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post
 

 

I agree with that but how can you feel the music if you can't hear it?

 

It's the small details that IMO make music come alive, along with other attributes, and sound real.

 

I used to own a £10000 Naim TT based system years ago. Detail was never it's strong point.

 

I have read many times in reviews of Naim gear along the lines of  "loses out on fine detail and dynamics but gets to the essence, meaning and emotion of the music"

 

There's detail for detail's sake and then there's musical detail.  Some manufacturers seem to place great emphasis on presenting swathes of detail, but the detail, to me adds nothing to the music, in fact it usually has the reverse effect, I just want the noise to stop. 

 

The statement on Naim gear getting to the heart of the music chimes with me, but I don't think the V1 does get to the heart of the music.

post #37 of 64

Wow.. am I the only one that likes the Naim DAC-V1? For me, it provides a  great musical presentation, plenty of air, detail, and dynamics, great vocals with the only thing that may be lacking would be depth and richness in the bass.  Even there, I attribute that to most of my recordings.. 70s-90s rock and pop, Enigma and some newer stuff thrown. The bass is definitely there, and very good when it's in the source. And that's using the built in HP amp with the HD800.  I fell like I'm describing the HD800 more than the Naim but in the limited experience that I've had, it's the best DAC that I've owned (PS Audio DLIII and the Schiit Bifrost Uber). When funds allow, I'll be adding and tube amp, probably one of the Woo's.

 

With regards to the Rega DAC, I have that in my main AV system. I find that it does add body, depth, detail and a little warmth which is what I need running Martin Logan speakers with Rotel amplification.

 

Again, it may be my limited experience but it all works for me.

post #38 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by griff2 View Post
 

 

There's detail for detail's sake and then there's musical detail.  Some manufacturers seem to place great emphasis on presenting swathes of detail, but the detail, to me adds nothing to the music, in fact it usually has the reverse effect, I just want the noise to stop. 

 

The statement on Naim gear getting to the heart of the music chimes with me, but I don't think the V1 does get to the heart of the music.

 

IMO there is no such thing as 'detail for details sake'. If it's on the disk I want to hear it, no DAC is going to add any detail (at least not unless faulty).

The only problem is if it is thrust at you, them that does lead to problems and in that context I can fully understand where you are coming from.

 

Every sound on a disk should be music or ambiance and I want to hear both. It's what makes it sound real to me.

 

With regards Naim DAC's, I have heard a number of Naim cd players and DAC's, although not the current ones, and I have yet to find one I like. IMO Naim are much better at amps than digital components.

post #39 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post
 

 

IMO there is no such thing as 'detail for details sake'. If it's on the disk I want to hear it, no DAC is going to add any detail (at least not unless faulty).

The only problem is if it is thrust at you, them that does lead to problems and in that context I can fully understand where you are coming from.

 

Every sound on a disk should be music or ambiance and I want to hear both. It's what makes it sound real to me.

 

With regards Naim DAC's, I have heard a number of Naim cd players and DAC's, although not the current ones, and I have yet to find one I like. IMO Naim are much better at amps than digital components.

 

I suppose what I mean by "detail for detail's sake" is that the musical experience is not enhanced by it.  For me, musical detail is hearing tonal colour, in a piano or cello for instance, or the emotion in a sung word or accurate PRaT; which IMO turns the noises from our headphones or speakers into music.

 

Again, for me, without tonal colours, emotion and accurate PRaT it doesn't matter how many instruments you can hear in the mix, or what fantastic placement they have in the sound stage, it's not a musical event.

 

I would agree about Naim, and other manufacturers, being better at analogue than digital.  I recently heard a podcast by Ken Ishiwata of Marantz explaining that they were unprepared for digital.  I think the traditional Hi-Fi manufacturers are still trying to bring their digital expertise to the same standard as their analogue.

post #40 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyVee View Post
 

Wow.. am I the only one that likes the Naim DAC-V1? For me, it provides a  great musical presentation, plenty of air, detail, and dynamics, great vocals with the only thing that may be lacking would be depth and richness in the bass.  Even there, I attribute that to most of my recordings.. 70s-90s rock and pop, Enigma and some newer stuff thrown. The bass is definitely there, and very good when it's in the source. And that's using the built in HP amp with the HD800.  I fell like I'm describing the HD800 more than the Naim but in the limited experience that I've had, it's the best DAC that I've owned (PS Audio DLIII and the Schiit Bifrost Uber). When funds allow, I'll be adding and tube amp, probably one of the Woo's.

 

 

Bold statement. Would you back this up again?

post #41 of 64

Not sure what you mean or are asking for.. I said/meant  it's the best DAC that I've owned (and in my limited experience) which includes the PS Audio DLIII (sold), the Schiit Bifrost Uber (sold) and the Rega DAC (in my main AV system).  Not a night and day differences but a step up in resolution, detail, air, smoothness  and dynamics.  Not a bold statement at all :)

Is it worth the asking price - probably not but i'm planning on building a 2 chan office system mating it with the NAP100 and a decent pair of speakers.

I'm done with DAC hunting - the Naim just works for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zackzack View Post
 

 

Bold statement. Would you back this up again?


Edited by MickeyVee - 2/13/14 at 8:37am
post #42 of 64

I have the Naim, too, and I like it. I use it with a Bryston BHA-1, but the built-in amplifier works well on it's own, too.

I'd hoped the bryston would be much brighter to help my LCD-X, and it was at first, but after about 48 hours or so, the bryston had smoothed out a lot.

post #43 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gowry View Post

I have the Naim, too, and I like it. I use it with a Bryston BHA-1, but the built-in amplifier works well on it's own, too.
I'd hoped the bryston would be much brighter to help my LCD-X, and it was at first, but after about 48 hours or so, the bryston had smoothed out a lot.
I personally find the Naim as a combination very musical and I do like the sound signature.

I'm seriously considering a tube amp however to mate with my W3000s. How would you describe the native sound signature of the Naim's amp portion?
post #44 of 64

Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyVee View Post
 

 

Well, I am very interested in the Naim and kinda half excited when you claimed it is the best DAC you have owned. And you own a pretty damn good ones: PS Audio, and Bifrost is well liked here (although some say that it is just merely good). Bifrost is my 2nd DAC and I have not sampled other DACs with my home equipments so looking for the right DAC without spending obscene amount of money is a challenging thing to do. I am looking for an end-game DAC for less than US$3K.  The $3800 Naim DAC is very desirable but its price point is beyond me. The V1 is more affordable but I am afraid its entry-level status may give me another case of upgraditis. And for an entry level product, $2400 is pretty expensive. McIntosh D100 (DAC/preamp/headphone amp) costs $2500.
 
Naim V1
 
 
McIntosh D100

 


Edited by zackzack - 2/13/14 at 8:29pm
post #45 of 64

The Fostex Hp A8C sound better than Naim and it has a much better headphone output.

The Naim it's a good dac, but it cost a lot only beacuase has naim's name.

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