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[COMPARISON / REVIEW] The Quads: Westone W4R vs. Logitech UE 900 vs. Sony XBA-40 - Page 5

post #61 of 86

BTW, I still maintain Mr Uncool would love the Parterres.

post #62 of 86
The newer Heaven series is better IMO, deeper bass and more detailed. The distortion affects the timbre as its in one of the most sensitive areas in the ear, but only slightly and only problematic at high volume.
post #63 of 86
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Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post

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Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

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Originally Posted by warrenpchi View Post

 

People actually think that?  confused.gif

 

I dunno. People seem to be voting with their wallets...


Unfortunately that's what I think too. I also think it bodes badly for people like us in the long run.

 

Well that's just a damn shame!  biggrin.gif

 

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Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

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Originally Posted by Inks View Post

The JVCs seem to simply have CNT coating though, nothing full fledged, which will be too costly anyway. Not only that, they seem to have trouble controlling the thing...

 

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Originally Posted by TwinQY View Post

From what I understand (and I don't seem to understand much these days), the current implementation of carbon nanotubes is simply as a coating for a still-dynamic microdriver.

 

Yes I remember being part of that discussion about teh FXD80's. The thing is, the CNT coating should still deliver improvements to strength / weight, in the same way that B&W uses diamond deposition. I think most fancy drivers these days are done by some fancy vapour deposition process. The only exception seems to be biocellulose drivers in the GR07 and the LCP drivers in the EX1000. (Both Sony developments which again beg the question - WHY SONY WHY?)

 

I'm sure someone has thought of this before... but I wouldn't mind seeing an intermediate/incremental step whereby Graphene was used to construct a lattice containing thin polymer cells.  I would surmise that - not having to account for rigidity - the membranes of such driver would be far thinner, lower mass, faster, etc... WITHOUT the expense of going fully Graphene.

 

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Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

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Originally Posted by warrenpchi View Post
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Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

 

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Originally Posted by warrenpchi View Post

 

... This is the reason why I consider products like Ety's ER-4 series to be seminal breakthroughs, even to this day.

 

But then shortly after BAs came along, we all realized that maybe their LF response was a bit lacking at times?  Cue the multi-BAs and moving armatures and what-not.  Was it a perfect solution?  Not by a long shot.  But it was still better than a single BA


Tread carefully, Mr warrenpchi, you don't want to upset the Ety crowd.


Lol, got an ER-4PT and an ER-4S here... I'd only be upsetting myself.  biggrin.gif

 

Let me rephrase that: Tread carefully, Mr warrenpchi, you don't want to upset the Ety fanboys enthusiasts who take their Bible graphs/measurements and spread the gos...

 

Me thinks Mr warrenpchi acknowledges the merits of the legendary ER4s, and I think that's a very good thing; he certainly doesn't come across as an Ety fan_ _ _c.

 

I do indeed.  smile.gif  I am a relative newcomer to the ER-4 scene, which gives me a somewhat hind-sighted view of its contributions to our hobby.  A perspective free from indoctrination and supported only by recent empirical evidence.

 

For certain genres, I find it to work for me very well.  For other genres, it's a bit long in tooth eh?  I think that - for anyone to proclaim the ER-4 to be perfect - is just chiropterine-fecally demented.  I say this not because I don't enjoy the ER-4 (I do), but because nothing will ever be as perfect as anyone thinks it to be, despite force of will or blindness of devotion.

post #64 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by imackler View Post

One of the things I want an iem to do is isolate well. What is the best isolation among your favorite dynamic drivers?

 

The best compromise between sound quality and isolation I've heard with dynamic drivers so far are the Widing ME-10EX. They still have a tiny vent, but to me isolation is sufficient for commuting (unlike the EX1000, MDR7550, FX700 and other DDs). I've yet to hear a closed dynamic driver IEM that sounds good and has decent soundstage. Therefore I tend to think that venting with DDs is just a sacrifice we have to live with.

 

Which brings me to dynamic microdrivers: just like a_rec, I'd be all for simpler designs instead of multi-BA overkill, but I must admit that microdrivers have failed to convince me so far, particularly in the treble range. Either they've been rolled off like the Shures, or sizzly like the Yamahas, or thinnish like the Senns.

 

And, as if this wasn't enough, their bass authority is also strangely lacking, at least if you A/B them with larger dynamic drivers. No, I'm not talking about bass quantity (there's more than enough on an EPH-100 and IE800) and yes, they have good extension down there, but just listen to a Mahler symphony first with the EX1000 (or MDR7550) and then switch to one of these microdrivers and you'll know what I mean. As one fellow head-fier put it, after I've let him try the IE800: they just sound "small".

 

Also, one word regarding impulse response graphs (this is quickly becoming my own rant... ;-): yes, in theory a perfect response should be one peak, followed by no decay, but in praxis the phones I've heard that approach this "perfect piston" ideal tend to sound over-damped in bass and overall lifeless. My prime example being the Ety MC3/5, nice measurements, but in praxis one of the most soulless and least lifelike phones I've ever come across.

 

Bottom line, even though I don't particularly like them, there's a reason for the success of multi-BAs and I personally think they're here to stay for a bit longer. I haven't heard the UE700, but the W4 are an excellent choice for those who like a reasonably flat, but warm and relaxing signature. Plus, they have (dare I say?) very good timbre for multi-BAs to my ears. The stock XBA-4 are severely screwed up in the mids, but to those who're not opposed to EQing, these have actually been my #1 bang/buck recommendation for commuting lately and can be had for less than 200 euros (or dollars).

post #65 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

And, as if this wasn't enough, their bass authority is also strangely lacking, at least if you A/B them with larger dynamic drivers. No, I'm not talking about bass quantity (there's more than enough on an EPH-100 and IE800) and yes, they have good extension down there, but just listen to a Mahler symphony first with the EX1000 (or MDR7550) and then switch to one of these microdrivers and you'll know what I mean. As one fellow head-fier put it, after I've let him try the IE800: they just sound "small".

 

Also, one word regarding impulse response graphs (this is quickly becoming my own rant... ;-): yes, in theory a perfect response should be one peak, followed by no decay, but in praxis the phones I've heard that approach this "perfect piston" ideal tend to sound over-damped in bass and overall lifeless. My prime example being the Ety MC3/5, nice measurements, but in praxis one of the most soulless and least lifelike phones I've ever come across.

 

I'd be curious of what you thought of the FXD70 / FXD80 James... I've been itching to hear the Yamaha myself.

 

I know what you mean about the bass though. It sounds less textured and more blunt on the microdrivers I've heard. Still, early days - there aren't that many microdrivers yet anyway.

 

As for impulse response, yes I am thinking that an amount of decay is necessary because the recording engineer will probably have similar amounts of decay on whatever equipment they are using to monitor. Hence the romance of the EX1000. I have no real problems with a controlled amount of decay, but I think it's probably a bad thing when the decay is all over the place like the W4R and UE900... 

 

Very thoughtful 'rant' though haha. 

post #66 of 86

What a fantastic thread! Thank you! Fully agree with your points too. The Sony EX-1000 has been my most used IEM lately. Sure it has a pretty nasty treble peak, but other than that it is pretty close to perfection as long as you can live with almost zero isolation. That´s a very big if though... The RE-400 is my second used IEM, with UE 900 coming in third. There´s just something about the coherency of the sound with dynamics (= no crossovers). When it comes to value balanced armatures are simply not very competitive anymore. Who would have guessed dynamics improved so much in just a few years after the BA-driver "revolution".

 

Still hope Sony will make an EX-1000/MDR-7550 successor, but I think it´s just wishful thinking as their R&D is now all invested in their custom BA drivers so they´ll just continue to tune those instead.

post #67 of 86
Hi just read through the review.
As inks put it earlier try the tape and pin hole trick on the ue900 it's worth the effort. I had just done the mod and am glad I did.
With the headphone cut out issue go to Jay car and grab a bottle of contact and residue cleaner the green can and spray the tip of a finely rolled up tissue(I know this shouldn't have to be done but it fixes the problem) then dab the inside of the headphone plug. Don't spray the headphone direct.
A small amount of carbon residue should be present on the tissue, repeat the process and wipe the male side as well as the outer plug points. I found the problem will come back if used in moisture prone application like jogging. Thanks for the review. But try the tape mod, I think that's an incredible fix to the sound I got a shock.
Edited by audioxxx - 9/1/13 at 4:06am
post #68 of 86

FYI, you can buy the UE900 carrying case separately. Check the Logitech website. 

post #69 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioxxx View Post

Hi just read through the review.
As inks put it earlier try the tape and pin hole trick on the ue900 it's worth the effort. I had just done the mod and am glad I did.
With the headphone cut out issue go to Jay car and grab a bottle of contact and residue cleaner the green can and spray the tip of a finely rolled up tissue(I know this shouldn't have to be done but it fixes the problem) then dab the inside of the headphone plug. Don't spray the headphone direct.
A small amount of carbon residue should be present on the tissue, repeat the process and wipe the male side as well as the outer plug points. I found the problem will come back if used in moisture prone application like jogging. Thanks for the review. But try the tape mod, I think that's an incredible fix to the sound I got a shock.

 

I think I will do the contact cleaner thing... but only to fix it for the next owner. I don't really need the UE900 on hand.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by loxxrider View Post

FYI, you can buy the UE900 carrying case separately. Check the Logitech website. 

 

The carrying case though - I WANT!

post #70 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

 

I think I will do the contact cleaner thing... but only to fix it for the next owner. I don't really need the UE900 on hand.

 

 

The carrying case though - I WANT!

That's what I'm saying... you can get it here:

 

http://buy.logitech.com/store/logib2c/en_US/DisplayCategoryProductListPage/categoryid.60213000?resid=UiUzMwoydg8AAHdsfkcAAAAC&rests=1378169651568

 

 

P/N 993-000632
post #71 of 86
Thread Starter 

That seems like a listing for the included carrying pounch but not the case...

post #72 of 86

I've ordered it (and received it) using that number because I lost mine on an airplane and liked it so much that I wanted to have one again. It is about $30. You can cross-check that number on the european site which has a picture to go with it. 

post #73 of 86
Thread Starter 

Oh sorry I missed the part number in your post! That is cool. I would happily buy one of those if I was in the states.

post #74 of 86
Hi Man,

I wonder if one day you could review the Shure SE-846 Quad Driver as well :-)
I'm curious to know as it how does it compares with the rest of the quad drivers IEM.
post #75 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSantana View Post

Hi Man,

I wonder if one day you could review the Shure SE-846 Quad Driver as well :-)
I'm curious to know as it how does it compares with the rest of the quad drivers IEM.

 

It would really have to be a review unit, and given the SE846's price, it may be quite difficult to get a loaner unit.

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