The Stax Thread III
Aug 30, 2016 at 1:31 PM Post #9,706 of 25,215
Love love and love the HD800 (In fact I find it weird I decided to only keep the HD800 and HD650 after all the spending on Audeze and Hifiman) with my previous Stratus.....but after listening to the SR-009+Carbon....I cannot go back.  But it is IMO a stronger pick than most people realize chasing the latest and greatest when properly matched with the correct amp.
 
Aug 30, 2016 at 1:43 PM Post #9,707 of 25,215
  The 009 for me always had better 3d positional sound. Instruments and vocals were placed either wider apart, or closer in depending on the recording. It had a greater breadth of how it could place sounds in 3d space.
That is why it always surprises me when people say hd800's one thing over 009 is soundstage.... It might be I don't know what "soundstage" is tho.
 
Of course, the Carbon amp is known to give great soundstage for Stax, maybe if I had the hd800 on a $5000 amp it would beat the 009 in soundstage?
 
For me the hd800 killed the 009 in microdetails. I'm not big into stuff like that, because you have to reaaallly be listening to the music closely to hear stuff like that. I'm more about enjoyment from listening to music, not listening to music like a college lecture trying to pick stuff out.
 
With that said, the clarity, raw resolution, and transparency of the hd800 were so much greater, I decided to sell the Carbon/009.
 
The current amp I'm using with hd800 is the Taurus mkii.
 
 
EDIT: As always YMMV. As is obvious from the post right underneath mine.
I just see so many posts definitively saying Stax TOTL is world TOTL for headphones. I dropped $10k into that bucket, and came out objectively enjoying hd800 more.
Lotta group think in this this thread, which is fine, it's Stax thread. Why would anybody trash their $5k+ rig lol.

If you had the Carbon w/ 009 and preferred the HD800, then honestly yes it's fair to give up on the 009. I do think the DIY T2 is maybe even a couple levels above the Carbon overall, but the soundstage of 009 w/ Carbon is very close to as good as it gets with that headphone. It looks like you just simply prefer the HD800, and hold soundstage size & imaging as one of your biggest priorities. Myself, I easily preferred 009 with a plain KGSShv (and the Carbon is a level up from this) over the HD800 on even some of the best amps (GS-X Mk 2, Balanced SuSY Dynahi, SDS XLR, etc), so the equation for you is just plain different. Totally disagree with you on the transparency/resolution of 009 vs. HD800, and I do not like the HD800's treble presentation, dislike its midrange, etc -- we just hear really different :)
 
Also the HD800 is a crappy looking copy of the Qualia 010 :wink:
 
Aug 30, 2016 at 1:50 PM Post #9,708 of 25,215
Yes at this level it's down to each persons quirky ears. I sold my HD800 with Wells Headtrip amp and DHC Spore cables to fund SR009 & Carbon. Even out of a SMK007MK2 amp my impression was the Stax was in another league to HD800.
 
Aug 30, 2016 at 2:44 PM Post #9,711 of 25,215
I like both,for different reasons. For me it comes down to want I want during a given listening session. Match the system to my mood and all that.

I do find myself listening to the BHSE/ 009's more often. That might shift a bit once my LAu gets here, though. We shall see. That is part of the fun.
 
Aug 30, 2016 at 3:14 PM Post #9,712 of 25,215
Sure, the HD800 beats the big Stax on the value and portability, but although I like the HD800 for certain music types, I find even a Stax 207 better for my taste, and it can't even compete with my [modded] 007 and the 009. I guess I am a Stax guy. The Utopia might hit a sweet spot for dynamic vs e-stats, even though it's too expensive. The question is, will its midrange beat the Stax, that is to be seen, let's see when can I put my hands on them.
 
However, I have found most interesting that someone actually prefers the HD800 to a top 009 setup. That is a good reminder on how subjective this hobby is, and how different people are. I would almost say this casts a heavy shadow over trusting reviews on this forum, since you can't rely on other peoples' opinion too much, it's a MUST to listen to stuff yourself.
 
Aug 30, 2016 at 3:21 PM Post #9,713 of 25,215
  Hmm, did you read my post? I said Carbon/009 for me had much better soundstage and imaging, while hd800 for me had better raw resolution and transparency....

My bad, didn't see all of your subsequent posts before I replied. I can confirm that the Carbon's soundstage is its strongest point. And amping definitely does influence soundstage of the HD800 -- it was absolutely huge with the SDS XLR. 
 
You gave it a good go with the 009/Carbon, and if you still prefer HD800 w/ SS amp then I don't see even a DIY T2 changing your mind.
 
Aug 30, 2016 at 3:36 PM Post #9,714 of 25,215
After spending some quality time with the 009 I think I'd prefer the HD 800 as well. The 009 doesn't seem very resolving (even my modest uncompensated, untreated nearfield speakers seem superior) although it does manage to sound quite clear. The Omega is superior in resolution although it doesn't sound quite as forward or clean. TBH to me 009:Omega is reminiscent of [decent Sabre DAC]:Yggdrasil, though of course more markedly distinguishable.

Hoping to round out my understanding via ownership of a recent-production 007. FWIW I prefer the 007Mk1 over the 009 on HeadAmp's rig every time.
 
Aug 30, 2016 at 3:38 PM Post #9,715 of 25,215
 
You gave it a good go with the 009/Carbon, and if you still prefer HD800 w/ SS amp then I don't see even a DIY T2 changing your mind.

Also, to be fair, it was an a/b scenario for me. The 009 were mind blowing, just as the hd800 are for me. If I was a richer man, I would have kept both for sure.
I think owning both is a great idea. If there's ever a time where I don't have to spend around $5k for a kgst+l700 kit, I would gladly get back into Stax. 
 
Aug 30, 2016 at 5:43 PM Post #9,716 of 25,215
Guys, something strange happen to me since I have my BHSE + Stax 009: Often after listening to BHSE/SR009, I have my ears ringing for many hours. And I do NOT listen louder with the STAX than with my Orthos headphone which do not produce this ringing phenomenon !??
 
—> Do you think it can be caused by some brightness in the SR009 to which I may be extra sensitive ? have other people experienced such thing ?  will I adapt with time or should I consider may be a SR007 instead or use a warmer DAC or....???  
--> or... can it be caused instead by some electromagnetic radiation generated by the SR009 that I am very sensitive to (there are hundreds of volts in those ear cups !) ?
 
Aug 30, 2016 at 5:50 PM Post #9,717 of 25,215
I don't understand the argument: HD800 (insert X dynamic or planar TOTL open headphone here if you want) is portable and Stax no.
I mean, HD800 needs an amplifier too, and usually a tube one (let's say Apex Teton for example) to give maximum performance and kill the 6khz treble peak (that is what hundreds of pages in the HD800 thread say)...is a full sized tube amp like Apex Teton portable?...mmm I don't think it fits in my pocket.
I mean, any TOTL dynamic or planar open headphone system is equally portable than a big Stax system.
 
Or the argument: Stax is very expensive compared to other headphones...really? Do the math:
 
Mega HD800 system:
- HD800 (1k) > Apex Pinnacle (10k and maybe the best amp for HD800) > Metrum Pavane DAC (5k, we don't want a harsh digital source with our beautiful headphones): 16k usd
Oh, don't forget to do the Anax mod (5usd and totally voiding warranty, so no more warranty for you, mega HD800 owner) and a balanced 3 pin XLR cable, hardwired to get the best results, like the Stefan Audioart cable mod (1179usd, 799 for the 7ft cable and 379 for hand labor). You can be fancy and put some NOS tubes in the Apex Pinnacle too. Don't forget to EQ the headphone if you want too.
 
Total cost of Mega HD800 killer system: 17,179usd.
 
Top Stax system:
 
- SR-007A (2K) > KGSSHV Carbon (5k and maybe the best amp for SR-007) > Metrum Pavane DAC (5k, we don't want a harsh digital source with our beautiful headphones): 12k
If you want, you can fill the bass ports with blue tak, and it will sound equal to the MK1 version, of course you'll void warranty, but you'll not have warranty if you bought it from Japan and live in another country, and...that's all.
 
Total cost of Top Stax system: 12,000usd
 
HD800 is good for the money...but harsh, thin etc...oh I will make it sound good (throws 16k usd and losses warranty lol)
 
Aug 30, 2016 at 7:01 PM Post #9,718 of 25,215
  Also, to be fair, it was an a/b scenario for me. The 009 were mind blowing, just as the hd800 are for me. If I was a richer man, I would have kept both for sure.
I think owning both is a great idea. If there's ever a time where I don't have to spend around $5k for a kgst+l700 kit, I would gladly get back into Stax. 

The L700+KGST is indeed a nice combo (one which I'll choose over any HD800 system, *jab jab*
biggrin.gif
), but you definitely shouldn't be paying $3K for a KGST -- not worth it, and it's definitely NOT like a mini BHSE. Check the FS forums for KGST units from less icy builders; that system should cost you 1.2-1.4K + ~1.8K = 3.2K max; maybe less.
 
Aug 30, 2016 at 7:08 PM Post #9,719 of 25,215
Guys, something strange happen to me since I have my BHSE + Stax 009: Often after listening to BHSE/SR009, I have my ears ringing for many hours. And I do NOT listen louder with the STAX than with my Orthos headphone which do not produce this ringing phenomenon !??

—> Do you think it can be caused by some brightness in the SR009 to which I may be extra sensitive ? have other people experienced such thing ?  will I adapt with time or should I consider may be a SR007 instead or use a warmer DAC or....???  
--> or... can it be caused instead by some electromagnetic radiation generated by the SR009 that I am very sensitive to (there are hundreds of volts in those ear cups !) ?

Experienced some of that ringing also I think it's because I was listening louder than a typically did when I first got my system or I needed to turn it down because of how well this system synergizes.
The same thing happened when I had the liquid gold on loan at first until I realized I was listening way too loud. Once I backed off the volume then it was just fine. I was also doing Marathon listening when I had the liquid gold and the BHSE 009. When i was doing comparisons, I found taking a break helped.
 
Aug 30, 2016 at 7:09 PM Post #9,720 of 25,215
  Guys, something strange happen to me since I have my BHSE + Stax 009: Often after listening to BHSE/SR009, I have my ears ringing for many hours. And I do NOT listen louder with the STAX than with my Orthos headphone which do not produce this ringing phenomenon !??

Have you chucked the Russian EL34 yet? When I ran through various EL34 tubes on speaker amps (years ago), the Russians were by far the worst offenders for treble issues and fatigue.
 
I've found the 009 to be a far easier listen for long sessions than any dynamic headphone (yes including the HD650, and it's not even close). But yes, the BHSE is on the slightly aggressive side as far as 009 amp pairings go, even with the Holland xf5 I'm running. This hasn't bothered me now in a couple of weeks of some very long listening sessions (with lots of hard rock and metal included), as the overall sound quality is just spectacular. I definitely prefer the BHSE to my Carbon now, though the latter is slightly less aggressive.
 

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