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The Stax Thread III - Page 173

post #2581 of 3321
I am all for measurements but buyer beware. People measure what they can and I have seen virtually no studies showing that what is typically measured is what determines what we regard as good sound. That would be a lot more difficult scientific problem. If it had been solved we wouldn't be here spouting our subjective impressions, we would simply be discussing the latest data available.

I think that frequency responses can be useful, but can be misleading because of coupling issues and frequency response corrections applied to the raw data.

In the end you still have to listen and decide for yourself. Go to meets and concerts of live, unamplified music to establish your standards.
post #2582 of 3321
Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post

I am all for measurements but buyer beware. People measure what they can and I have seen virtually no studies showing that what is typically measured is what determines what we regard as good sound. That would be a lot more difficult scientific problem. If it had been solved we wouldn't be here spouting our subjective impressions, we would simply be discussing the latest data available.

I think that frequency responses can be useful, but can be misleading because of coupling issues and frequency response corrections applied to the raw data.

In the end you still have to listen and decide for yourself. Go to meets and concerts of live, unamplified music to establish your standards.


Let's assume we have the perfect methods for measuring headphones. Even then we couldn't just discuss the latest data, as our ears are not shaped in the exact same way. There's always that last human factor, so yes, in the end you still have to listen and decide for yourself - no matter how exact the measurements are.

post #2583 of 3321
True true. From objective measurements though, using a similar system and methodology, comparative results can still be useful for some people.
post #2584 of 3321

Ah I wish were as simple as that :D

One of the most important things is that big blob of grey matter between your ears. This no doubt has a much bigger impact on our opinion of the sound based on our perceptions, personal experience, how its been "wired" together etc.  

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by AManAnd88Keys View Post
 


Let's assume we have the perfect methods for measuring headphones. Even then we couldn't just discuss the latest data, as our ears are not shaped in the exact same way. There's always that last human factor, so yes, in the end you still have to listen and decide for yourself - no matter how exact the measurements are.

post #2585 of 3321
Quote:
Originally Posted by complin View Post
 


I partially disagree, or think that we should be a bit more accurate in this matter.

We initally process auditory stimuli in a very similar way, it's not like when I hear a high pitched noise you hear rumbling bass. The core of the problem are associations, memories and so on, on that I agree with you. It's not just "the brain", part of it is very reliable and accurate. The fun starts when memory (working, long term...) comes into play.

post #2586 of 3321
Oh man, please get to some top demo rooms of hi-fi shows. I just came back from one today, and there were some McIntosh 200k solid state systems which sounded
ok, hi-fi sounding but ok, a Linn system for 40K that sound flat, and there were some solid state systems at 20K that sounded really bad.

Then we heard some tube based systems in various room by Audio Note, Lampizator and some other Italian makes, and they were superb.
Plus the Audio Note system was hiked up really loud with 30 people nodding there heads, and that set up was 25K.

All the above were speaker systems with digital front ends.

Which room at the end of the day was full? It wasn't the solid state rooms....

Now what were you saying about tubes?
post #2587 of 3321

That's not really useful evidence of anything, though. Tubes are nostalgic, romantic, and exotic. I'd always expect them to do well in non-blinded, subjective "tests", especially in a room full of high-end audio enthusiasts.

post #2588 of 3321
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrostar59 View Post

Oh man, please get to some top demo rooms of hi-fi shows. I just came back from one today, and there were some McIntosh 200k solid state systems which sounded

ok, hi-fi sounding but ok, a Linn system for 40K that sound flat, and there were some solid state systems at 20K that sounded really bad.



Then we heard some tube based systems in various room by Audio Note, Lampizator and some other Italian makes, and they were superb.

Plus the Audio Note system was hiked up really loud with 30 people nodding there heads, and that set up was 25K.



All the above were speaker systems with digital front ends.



Which room at the end of the day was full? It wasn't the solid state rooms....



Now what were you saying about tubes?

 



What was I saying about tubes? Im not sure, but probably something about bandwaggoning not really proving anything wink.gif
post #2589 of 3321
Quote:
Originally Posted by edstrelow View Post

I am all for measurements but buyer beware. People measure what they can and I have seen virtually no studies showing that what is typically measured is what determines what we regard as good sound.

Look up Floyd Toole's and Sean Olive's work, for starters.

 

W/R/T Lambdas, the 207s really are a great deal. I prefer the sound of the x07 line to the x04. As far as the difference between the 2/3/4/507s, it's kinda like with Grado - most differences are cosmetic.

post #2590 of 3321
Quote:
That's not really useful evidence of anything, though. Tubes are nostalgic, romantic, and exotic. I'd always expect them to do well in non-blinded, subjective "tests", especially in a room full of high-end audio enthusiasts.

Eer what? I would challenge that, by saying you are talking about your solid state systems here my friend. Audiophile enthusiasts obsessing over measurements
and 500x over sampling rates. The Audio Note room was full of regular guys, one guy brought his kids and they were enjoying the sound as well judging by tapping feet.

My take on the tube v solid state argument is each to their own, and I am not saying all solid state is bad, it isn't. What I am saying is in the real world and realistic sized living rooms
and playing all music types, a fantastic musical experience can be had with Redbook and tubed amplification. It seems simpler is better. The Lampizator DACs for example were a beautifully simple design with tubed output, but they sounds smooth, no digital edge, as good as vinyl, possibly better.

Tubes are nostalgic, romantic, exotic. I would say tubes are accurate, organic, real sounding in a well designed modern amplifier. Forget the 50's style warm glow and rounded off frequency response.
That is not where it is now. And the 50/50 split at the show of SS and tubed amplification says to me that tubes are alive and kicking. It is a brilliant combination of CD streaming with tubed amplification. Huge amounts of details and beautiful midrange realism with dynamics and bass when mated with 95db speakers.

I was lost a few years ago, drowning in a sea of huge solid stage power amps and gigantic inefficient speakers, Krell. McIntosh, Musical Fidelity. Now I am happy at last with my low powered SET 300B monoblocks driving horn hybrids. They give me so much more enjoyment it has brought me back to this hobby.....

Forget the glossy brochure and tech specs. Like buying a car, just go out and test drive it, and if it get you, rocks your boat, buy the thing!
post #2591 of 3321
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcoarment View Post
 

That's not really useful evidence of anything, though. Tubes are nostalgic, romantic, and exotic. I'd always expect them to do well in non-blinded, subjective "tests", especially in a room full of high-end audio enthusiasts.


To each their own, but I just think you have no idea.... There are tube systems that are anything but nostalgic, romantic and exotic :rolleyes:. A great example would be Octave, their amps have a highly energetic and detailed sound that keeps you on your toes.

post #2592 of 3321

I got my new SR-009 on Monday and have been greatly enjoying it... until last night, when I was hit by the channel-imbalance flaw. The right driver is now noticeably softer than the left, and everything sounds like it's panned left by about 30 degrees. (My working theory is that the right driver got offended that I was using my earspeakers™ for the lowly job of editing a podcast.)

 

I filled out the StaxUSA warranty inquiry form — let's see if they care that I bought it from PriceJapan.

 

What's the usual procedure to fix this? Exchange for new (since it's so new) or send for service? Does it take a while? Do you get back a potentially-gross refurbished pair from a pool of replacements, or your pair that's actually been repaired?

 

edit: Sorry, didn't realize there's a dedicated thread for the imbalance flaw. Moved my discussion there.


Edited by marcoarment - 6/19/14 at 9:22am
post #2593 of 3321
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcoarment View Post
 

I got my new SR-009 on Monday and have been greatly enjoying it... until last night, when I was hit by the channel-imbalance flaw. The right driver is now noticeably softer than the left, and everything sounds like it's panned left by about 30 degrees. (My working theory is that the right driver got offended that I was using my earspeakers™ for the lowly job of editing a podcast.)

 

I filled out the StaxUSA warranty inquiry form — let's see if they care that I bought it from PriceJapan.

 

What's the usual procedure to fix this? Exchange for new (since it's so new) or send for service? Does it take a while? Do you get back a potentially-gross refurbished pair from a pool of replacements, or your pair that's actually been repaired?

Hi,

 

Have you tried adjusting the balance on the energiser by holding the front volume dial and turning the inner dial? I need to do this to correct mild hearing loss on my right side with my current SR-404 headphones. If the channel imbalance cannot be corrected using this method then the headphones must be returned. Unfortunately, I had to return a new pair SR-407 headphones bought from a Chinese eBay seller due to uncorrectable channel imbalance which occurred when changing energisers. I was able to diagnose uncorrectable channel imbalance because my other Stax headphones (SR-202) were fine on both SRM-212 and SRM-006T energisers.

 

Another suggestion would be to remove the lead from the energiser and touch the connectors on the headphone lead with a moist finger. Any crackling sound from the headphones is normal. This may remove any parasitic capacitance which is a probable cause of the channel imbalance. 

 

Perhaps PriceJapan would agree to refund you the import duties if you have to exchange the headphones - worth asking anyway.

 

 

Martyn

post #2594 of 3321
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcoarment View Post
 

I got my new SR-009 on Monday and have been greatly enjoying it... until last night, when I was hit by the channel-imbalance flaw. The right driver is now noticeably softer than the left, and everything sounds like it's panned left by about 30 degrees. (My working theory is that the right driver got offended that I was using my earspeakers™ for the lowly job of editing a podcast.)

 

I filled out the StaxUSA warranty inquiry form — let's see if they care that I bought it from PriceJapan.

 

What's the usual procedure to fix this? Exchange for new (since it's so new) or send for service? Does it take a while? Do you get back a potentially-gross refurbished pair from a pool of replacements, or your pair that's actually been repaired?

 

I hope you are able to get your problem resolved quickly and without a lot of hassle.  That said, it depends on whether pricejapan is an authorized Stax reseller, and whether they are actually authorized to ship them to the USA.  You will almost certainly have to ship them back to japan - probably at your own expense, and see what happens.I've not ordered from them before, so I cannot say from experience.

 

I'm pretty sure Stax USA would care, since you did not buy them through their distribution network- you imported them yourself- so to speak, and therefore they are not responsible for any issue you have with the product or the transaction.

 

Just my 2 cents worth

post #2595 of 3321
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyn73 View Post
 

 

 

Perhaps PriceJapan would agree to refund you the import duties if you have to exchange the headphones - worth asking anyway.

 

 

Martyn

 

You (the O.P. that is) should mark them as a defective return when you ship them back, and they should ship back to you clearly marked as repair/replacement.  Done correctly, this should eliminate duties/taxes and the like, but not shipping charges or brokerage fees.  This shoudl always be done when repair/return/replacements are shipped internationally. 

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