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The Stax Thread III - Page 164

post #2446 of 3012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post
 

Hi guys!

 

Birgir and Kevin have done us all a solid, and I'm gonna need some help getting electrostatic cans in for measurement.

 

Really the easiest way to tell you about it is just to point you here:

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/stax-mafia-makes-unrefusable-offer-and-i-begin-electrostatic-headphone-measurement-program

 

Looking forward to a bunch of new estat measurements! 

 

 

Thanks Birgir and Kevin! Imma make good use out of the KGSSSRE.

Enjoy! 

 

I love the KGSS and KGSSHV! That one looks like a real beauty! 

post #2447 of 3012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post

Hi guys!

Birgir and Kevin have done us all a solid, and I'm gonna need some help getting electrostatic cans in for measurement.

Really the easiest way to tell you about it is just to point you here:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/stax-mafia-makes-unrefusable-offer-and-i-begin-electrostatic-headphone-measurement-program

Looking forward to a bunch of new estat measurements! 


Thanks Birgir and Kevin! Imma make good use out of the KGSSSRE.

Very exciting! I can't wait to see how the vintage models measure.
post #2448 of 3012

Frank

 

Couple things I'd like your opinion on-

 

Have you found that using a film cap  as the last cap in the PSU is sufficient, or do you need to replace all the electrolytics with film?

 

I've seen quite a few designs where the aluminum electrolytics in the PSU  and the on-board "demand" electrolytics in solid state amps are bypassed with one or two film caps- does that ameliorate the sonic problems caused by electrolytics or is it just wishful thinking?

 

And last but not least-  Black Gates are gone, but there are now other "audio grade" electrolytics - Silmic & Cerafine from Elna, and Muse from Nichicon - have you heard  these? Do you think they offer sonic benefit over the regular good quality but otherwise garden-variety Panasonic caps?


Edited by milosz - 5/24/14 at 12:29am
post #2449 of 3012

Hello,

 

My first foray into electrostatics is happening as I type this. I just received an SR-007 Omega  MK ii and a SR-007t on audition and can buy if I like the combo. Needless to say, I am definitely buying (wow).....

 

Here is the question I have for you guys, Does the SR-007t take the Omega MK ii to the height of where it can go sound wise? , or should I just buy the headphone end of this deal (an offer he gave me ) and look to another amp?

 

Budget(within reason) is not an issue, so any suggestions if I should not buy the whole combo would be appreciated.

 

 

Thanks!

post #2450 of 3012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearless1 View Post

Hello,

My first foray into electrostatics is happening as I type this. I just received an SR-007 Omega  MK ii and a SR-007t on audition and can buy if I like the combo. Needless to say, I am definitely buying (wow).....

Here is the question I have for you guys, Does the SR-007t take the Omega MK ii to the height of where it can go sound wise? , or should I just buy the headphone end of this deal (an offer he gave me ) and look to another amp?

Budget(within reason) is not an issue, so any suggestions if I should not buy the whole combo would be appreciated.


Thanks!
I'd guess you'd be better off with 717 or 727. Question is, where does the 323 stand against the 007t?
post #2451 of 3012

The SR007 with SRM007t sounds very dark with uncontrolled bass and muddy medium. 

post #2452 of 3012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hun7er View Post

The SR007 with SRM007t sounds very dark with uncontrolled bass and muddy medium. 
Yet it must sound more controlled than 006/t1?
post #2453 of 3012

He's probably better off with the 007t than the 323s though they still need more amp; lesser of two evils.

post #2454 of 3012
Quote:
Originally Posted by milosz View Post
 

Frank

 

Couple things I'd like your opinion on-

 

Have you found that using a film cap  as the last cap in the PSU is sufficient, or do you need to replace all the electrolytics with film?

 

I've seen quite a few designs where the aluminum electrolytics in the PSU  and the on-board "demand" electrolytics in solid state amps are bypassed with one or two film caps- does that ameliorate the sonic problems caused by electrolytics or is it just wishful thinking?

 

And last but not least-  Black Gates are gone, but there are now other "audio grade" electrolytics - Silmic & Cerafine from Elna, and Muse from Nichicon - have you heard  these? Do you think they offer sonic benefit over the regular good quality but otherwise garden-variety Panasonic caps?


All right, one last go at the  electrolytic/film capacitor "debate" and then  I'll forever shut up about it. And to keep jcx happy, I freely admit that all my experience in this area is empirical and annecdotal.

 

My response to the first question is that the last cap in the PSU, which is directly in the audio path, is by far the most affected by upgrading an electrolytic to a film cap. When I first started building SET amps in the early 90's I made numerous direct comparisons (usually with simple "brute-force" supplies) of the two types in this position. The difference was easy to hear, and the film cap was always the winner. You could also hear it (to a lesser degree) in a push-pull, zero feedback DHT amp. Since then, since all my amps are DIY,  and I'm not concerned about space or economy issues, I usually use film caps in all positions. Probably doesn't make much difference as long as the last one is film.

 

I've never experimented with using film caps as electrolytic bypasses. I've read mixed results about the effectiveness of film bypasses

 

I've used all the brands of electrolytics you mentioned. I can't tell any difference between them and decent "garden-variety" electrolytics. Black Gates (and perhaps it was just  my aching wallet talking)  seemed to have a bit less of the usual "glare" or "sheen" that I associate with electrolytics.

 

Again to be clear, I am not criticizing any commercial product or designer for using electrolytics. If I was a commercial builder I'd use them too.There's really no choice. As a DIYer I am free to choose any capacitors I want, and I choose film whenever possible..

post #2455 of 3012

Thanks FrankCooter and jcx, in alphabetical order, for sharing your knowledge. This post in Tube CAD Journal was my previous knowledge about the subject and you both helped to fill some blanks in my mind. There is no conclusion without thesis and antithesis. I wish we had more of such debates here.

post #2456 of 3012

Last line of questions, and thanks for the replies.

 

Does the SRE 725  extension detract from SQ at all?  Are there any other makers of extension cables?  

 

Thanks again.

post #2457 of 3012
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankCooter View Post
 


All right, one last go at the  electrolytic/film capacitor "debate" and then  I'll forever shut up about it. And to keep jcx happy, I freely admit that all my experience in this area is empirical and annecdotal.

 

My response to the first question is that the last cap in the PSU, which is directly in the audio path, is by far the most affected by upgrading an electrolytic to a film cap. When I first started building SET amps in the early 90's I made numerous direct comparisons (usually with simple "brute-force" supplies) of the two types in this position. The difference was easy to hear, and the film cap was always the winner. You could also hear it (to a lesser degree) in a push-pull, zero feedback DHT amp. Since then, since all my amps are DIY,  and I'm not concerned about space or economy issues, I usually use film caps in all positions. Probably doesn't make much difference as long as the last one is film.

 

I've never experimented with using film caps as electrolytic bypasses. I've read mixed results about the effectiveness of film bypasses

 

I've used all the brands of electrolytics you mentioned. I can't tell any difference between them and decent "garden-variety" electrolytics. Black Gates (and perhaps it was just  my aching wallet talking)  seemed to have a bit less of the usual "glare" or "sheen" that I associate with electrolytics.

 

Again to be clear, I am not criticizing any commercial product or designer for using electrolytics. If I was a commercial builder I'd use them too.There's really no choice. As a DIYer I am free to choose any capacitors I want, and I choose film whenever possible..

 

Thank you sir.

 

The only gear I've ever used which had all film caps was a Conrad Johnson PV10. All film caps in the PSU, except for the filament supply.  It was a nice sounding preamp, measured well too but I don't know how much of the good sound came from the PSU film filter caps.  I had a C-J PV7, it used electrolytics in the PSU, it sounded good to me, too.



This topic isn't SPECIFICALLY Stax-related, except that a few folks DO build their own amps for Stax, and if they are doing so they need food for thought; if ANYTHING is going to allow one to hear minute improvements in sound, seems to me it would be a pair of Stax 'phones, and so when doing a DIY tube electrostatic amp  it might well make sense to consider the use of film caps in the PSU. 

post #2458 of 3012

Don't worry about the cables.

Headphones > amplifiers > everything else

post #2459 of 3012

Yes, but I'd add a few more '>'s between headphones and amplifiers :wink_face:

 

Nice amp Tyll!  I think I have the same DC supply laying around and wanted to use it for the same application.  I'm going to guess that most Lambdas through the years measure very similarly in FR and maybe a little differently in square waves.

post #2460 of 3012

Hi Folks,

 

how do I measure the bias voltage at the output of my SRD box?

 

A Standar multimeter ? set to DC? between which pins?

 

 

Also what happens if you run a pair of ELS headphones at too high or too low a bias voltage?

 

thanks

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