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The Stax Thread III - Page 161

post #2401 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by dude_500 View Post
 

 

That is true, I wasn't addressing blatant noise issues, which comes up disturbingly frequently in computers. My comment only applies to working setups. I get noise out of my laptop if plugged into the power supply and connected to an earthed amplifier. So I just don't use that configuration.

 

It is true that rolloffs measure differently, but the differences are basically always inaudible. These days, oversampling lets the filter pass window move so high that it's basically a non issue.

 

Yes these modern DAC's do push the filter pass window very high but fundamentally as its a mathematical algorithm that represents the original signal it still introduces errors and other artifacts into the signal that were not there in the original. The argument for pushing it higher is that's its out of audible range and that the rounding errors in the calculations are much lower.  However I believe this still impacts on the timing of the signal and the harmonics which go way above 20khz to which our ears are particularly sensitive.      


Forgot to mention, people likely can hear difference between a NOS filterless DAC with a lot of amps since a NOS filterless DAC is a mathematically broken design, and you're inducing all sorts of intermodulation distortion in the amplifier by using a DAC like that.

 

That be as it may but it sounds great!! Same types of argument have been leveled for years about tube/valve amplifiers too. Although measurement is one part of the equation its also how the device sounds too. 


Edited by complin - 5/19/14 at 8:35am
post #2402 of 3039

Although measurement is one part of the equation its also how the device sounds too. 

 

In the end,sound is the only thing that really matters.

post #2403 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by complin View Post

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe any instrument possesses harmonics that extend beyond 20KHz (nevermind the argument of whether or not humans can perceive it).

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm
post #2404 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X0 View Post

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe any instrument possesses harmonics that extend beyond 20KHz (nevermind the argument of whether or not humans can perceive it).

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm
While this is a good point. Consider something like a dog whistle. Often people can't hear it, but you can feel it in your head when it's blown. So even though it falls to th limits of hearing, the effect can still be acknowledged. Sonance. The non musical noises that give an instrument it's character.
post #2405 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keithpgdrb View Post

While this is a good point. Consider something like a dog whistle. Often people can't hear it, but you can feel it in your head when it's blown. So even though it falls to th limits of hearing, the effect can still be acknowledged. Sonance. The non musical noises that give an instrument it's character.

I'm not convinced that would be accurate. There are some dog whistles that go as "low" as 23KHz which might be perceivable to some humans (additionally let's not discount the possibility of "defective" whistles that would go lower). Secondarily there is some perceived sound from the air that actually passes the whistle which is what most humans will hear.

Assuming the musical noise is the fundamental, the non-musical noises would be completely circumscribed within the harmonics (by definition).

Edit: Depending on the accuracy of this paper, my initial premise may have been inaccurate: http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/spectra.htm
Edited by 3X0 - 5/20/14 at 8:31am
post #2406 of 3039
I agree, and LOVE None Oversampling DACs. I would strongly recommend folk to hear a good one at home before going all scientific on it. There are enough paper out there to kill acres of trees, but the fact is none oversampling does sound great, right, real, organic.

Plus the removal of the filter has the SQ jump again.

There is a great You Tube video of the guy who actually designed the original Delta-Sigma chipset in the 80s.
The video is recent, and he admits that NONE of the electronic guys working at that firm actually listened to the sound!!!!!!!!!
He said they looked at osiloscopes and measurements only. A few years ago they finally hires what he termed Golden Eared Audiophiles,
and they began to develop the next generation chip sets.

I think the term used for the computer processing with Delta-Sigma anopozing filtering? Spelt wrong, but more or less the word. They tried to fill in the steps to the sound wave by upsampling it, then added a filter to stop the 'ringing' or mirror wave 2 or 3 octaves above the music, the downsampled it back. The theory sounds ok, but to my ears and my 20 years of growing hate of CD sound, it got more and more hi-fi less and less real.

None oversampling, try it, you might well fall in love with it!

NOS DACs
47Labs
Audio Note (like these as tubed)
Metrum
post #2407 of 3039
Hi Guys
Can I ask all 009s owners!

I am very worried this morning. I spotted another post by realmassey about the dreaded 009 imbalance issue. He bought his pair only 3 months back from PJ.

I was told by Chester Audio in UK the issue was only the first batch in 2011, and was resolved.
I looked a bit further back, and many guys have had issues in the least 6 months with 009s less than 12 months old.

So, I am in a mess now. I love the 009 sound but can't justify £3500 on a phone that in 13 months 'may' become a paper weight. I am curious to know how widespread the issue is. I also think at this level Stax should give a lifetime warranty on the drivers, like many high end speaker manufacturers do (pending tests for abuse).

And would / does Stax replace a driver / drivers if the issue crops up outside of warranty. I mean, come on Stax the world most expensive headphone can become junk
in 13 months, this is ridiculous....

Can anyone shed some light on this?
post #2408 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrostar59 View Post

Hi Guys
Can I ask all 009s owners!

I am very worried this morning. I spotted another post by realmassey about the dreaded 009 imbalance issue. He bought his pair only 3 months back from PJ.

I was told by Chester Audio in UK the issue was only the first batch in 2011, and was resolved.
I looked a bit further back, and many guys have had issues in the least 6 months with 009s less than 12 months old.

So, I am in a mess now. I love the 009 sound but can't justify £3500 on a phone that in 13 months 'may' become a paper weight. I am curious to know how widespread the issue is. I also think at this level Stax should give a lifetime warranty on the drivers, like many high end speaker manufacturers do (pending tests for abuse).

And would / does Stax replace a driver / drivers if the issue crops up outside of warranty. I mean, come on Stax the world most expensive headphone can become junk
in 13 months, this is ridiculous....

Can anyone shed some light on this?

 

I see you've posted on the other Stax imbalance thread already. I helped a friend pick up a Stax SR-009 in Jan last year and he noticed an imbalance issue. It was sent back to Stax and they replaced the drivers. I also helped another friend buy an SR-009 in June last year, tested it for about a week (or two?) and no problem cropped up so I sent it to him. As he's still waiting for his BHSE, he's not had a chance to test it I think.

 

I didn't have any problems with mine, nor did @Donnyhifi & @Wallabee. So out of 5x SR-009s bought in the range of Feb '12 -> Jun '13 that I'm aware of, 1 appeared to had imbalanced issue which appeared immediately (although deteriorated over the next few weeks) which was promptly fixed by Stax.

 

If you're buying the SR-009, hopefully you're having an amp to test it with rather than a lengthy wait for an amp before being able to test it. If so, get an interrim amp at least.

post #2409 of 3039
Hi Anakshan
Thanks for that.

So this issue IS STILL going on with new built 009s then obviously. I am sorry / worried about that.

So my questions are now:

1. Does Stax replace any defective driver out of warranty for free (minus shipping).
2. Does the defect show up in the first few months i.e has anyone had an issue much later on?
3. Has anyone found out what the defect is, and or how to cancel it out (static / discharge / run for a week ect).

This is a mess. Sorry guys, I am pretty mad about this issue.
post #2410 of 3039
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrostar59 View Post

Hi Anakshan
Thanks for that.

So this issue IS STILL going on with new built 009s then obviously. I am sorry / worried about that.

So my questions are now:

1. Does Stax replace any defective driver out of warranty for free (minus shipping).
2. Does the defect show up in the first few months i.e has anyone had an issue much later on?
3. Has anyone found out what the defect is, and or how to cancel it out (static / discharge / run for a week ect).

This is a mess. Sorry guys, I am pretty mad about this issue.

 

I dont' know about "IS" but it "WAS" Jan '13. Whether all that's been weeded out in the past 16 months, I don't know.

 

1) I actually don't even know how old the warranty is. You should check with PJ if you're buying through them. On that note, to be honest if you're not willing to take any risks, then better buy from an authorised distributor rather than grey market import. Yes local distributor is more expensive but it it'll give you better peace of mind seeing that you're concerned about it even before buying it.

2) Good question. For my friend's, it was immediate. As he initially stated, when he tested it was probably a 5-10% difference between the L&R channel. After a few weeks that number increased much more but the channel never died completely.

3) Don't know what the defect is. In the repair receipt, it just said the driver was replaced. He hasn't seen any issues since the replacement.

 

Note that this isn't specific to SR-009 but it's happened to other models too. However, just to get a better understanding, are you an SR-009 owner? If so, how long?

post #2411 of 3039

Can it be noted for the last time..PJ offers the same standard 1 year warranty as 'authorized dealers.' As long as Stax keeps up with doing repairs from whoever, etc

it really shouldn't be an issue. It should also be noted that so far no one knows what's causing the issue or the fix. The biggest pain might be dealing with oversea shipping/wait time.

 

Also, this issue doesn't seem too widespread if you take into account how many units have shipped out comparative to how many imbalance issues have been reported.


Edited by paradoxper - 5/21/14 at 2:22am
post #2412 of 3039
Quote:
er, just to get a better understanding, are you an SR-009 owner? If so, how long?

I am to buy this week,having had the 007s for 2 years and various Lambda models (no issues)
for 25 years before then - Lamdda normal, Lambda pro, Lambda Nova Signature (brown frame).

I am told today by Synergy the UK importer the issue has not cropped up in 18 months, and it also
affected the 507 as well at that time.

They say no problems since. And in the UK you get 24 months warranty as a legal requirement in the UK.

There is NO driver lifetime guarantee, but they are saying if an issue occurred Synergy would sort
it out with Stax. This is a verbal promise. I would have no written confirmation or guarantee certificate though.

So, I have come full circle and will probably press on and buy the 009s. I am retired / fixed incomes so I can't
loose 3500 pounds like maybe some can? Dunno. Maybe I am paranoid?
But 3500 is a lot of money on phones, so you may sympathise with my plight?

However living without the 009 sound is also hell, as I have heard it now and need it!
post #2413 of 3039
Just to clarify: I bought my 009 from Cheshire Audio, an authorised stax uk dealer. The problem I posted about in the 'imbalance thread' was actually an amp issue, which has been fixed under warranty.
I has an issue with the 507 a couple of years ago and again the uk importer replaced them with a new pair.
Ah, I would never buy such an expensive item in Japan, i'm happy to pay a bit more and be covered by the official uk warranty...but thats just me
post #2414 of 3039

Ive had mine for 6 months and I have had no problems with them, even after a move to Korea which kind of had me worried for their safety

post #2415 of 3039
@astrostar59, IMHO, just go for it. As others have said and from my little personal experience, chances are low.

Test it when you get it. In the rare case if you have problems, you get great support anyway. And probably the most important thing is that when your problem is resolved the SR-009 is sonically rewarding that you'd forget you had problems with it.
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