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post #2371 of 2809
Yes, a Justin built KGSSHV would be of interest to me. I need to get the 009s first, live with them and my 717 with my tubed DAC. I might find that is
my end game. The trouble at this level, is you need 5K US at least to get to the next level as regards amplification. So the jump needs to be worth it.

My front end has got lots of my attention as regards finer tuning the parts in my DAC (tantalum resistors, BG capacitors, V-Caps) and NOS tube selection etc.
I also use an M2 Tech full stack and the Mac Mini with Audirvana+ which all took the sound to a higher level than my previous CD Drive.

So, maybe I now need to just enjoy the music for a while see how it goes? The 009 is much easier to drive which I think has changed the landscape for high end
stat amps IMHO. OK there are the ultimate solutions (BHSE and WES) but the gap below that seems to have got a lot closer with my 717 and possibly other Stax amps. Back in the days of the 007 being the flagship it was a different story. If I really wanted to keep my 007s the only way to go would be BHSE, and that would be just to get closer to the 009s. Even then, I think (with my ears) it is still not as good in almost all areas.

However, if I had a colder / brighter DAC, possibly it would be better to stay with the 007s for their warming effect and less energy up top. But then I wouldn't get the 009s detail or space....
It's so complicated! I am convinced that folk sticking to the 007s with a BHSE must have a brighter and colder DAC, and possibly don't want to visit that for various reasons. It comes down to a sum of the parts and system synergy. Audio Note UK for example, voice their amps and speakers as a set at a level or price point in the range. It is because not all components bolt together 100%. Yes they will make music but maybe not to the right flavour? It is not always the case a top DAC made by manufacturer A gels 100% with headphone manufacturer B. It gets real subtle.

Do this test, find a CD track on your computer that you are famiier with and that has some female vocals or strings. Go into some EQ software and up the frequency at 5-10K area by 3 DB. Now A/B the 2 versions and see how it has changed. This I think is the crux of the matter. Tiny changes in the signal path before it gets to the phones has a big effect, and the 009s are like a doctors stethoscope, you hear it ALL. And it also shows how certain recordings are either a bit bright or a bit dark. Some guy in a studio sat in front of big monitors, and also mini monitors as well, has to make a judgement on the sound balance to suit a radio and a home hi-fi. It reminds me of the time I was a DJ in clubs, and I used to get free DJ promo vinyl that was not available to the public. They were mixed out to suit a clubs sound system (great bas extension) and those records sounded superb! BTW my hearing is just fine, before folk make a joke about me being half deaf!

And of course we have personal taste as to how we think music should sound, the condition of the persons hearing, how loud they listen at etc etc. And then we have types of music. Some just don't get the stat sound either. I might be lucky, or cursed? But I fell in love with the Stax sound right off the bat 25 years back, even with a poor source gear (tape deck) into a none pro Lambda with SRD7 energiser. It still walked all over my speakers!
post #2372 of 2809
Been looking at the FQ charts on Inner Fidelities review. They seem quite close between the 007 and 009 but on closer inspection they are very different. I have put them together in this image comp to show my point about SUBTLE changes to the signature of the music.

This is of course at the end of the chain - the headphone. It is not taking into account the amps or the DAC, and only looking at the FQ response, not distortion or actual quality of the signal or speed of transients. It does however partly explain to my eyes, why possibly the 007 is a bit dark, and the 009 is not.




Point A may explain the Bass bloom I hear on my 007s (MK2s).

Point B shows a flatter response for the 009s in the lower mids that will loose detail / energy in the 007s.

Point C is quite a bit drop for the 007s of 5 DB. This will mask detail in female voices for example

Point D is a big 8 DB spike in the 10k area that will emphasise symbals, strings and such to give treble emphasis, but not
much else, as it is very short i.e. sudden drops either side of that area. By upping the volume to hear the surrounding spectrum to
that level would further emphasise this, leading to a skewing in the character of the music / illusion of detail.

Point E shows the 007 is actually not far behind the 009s here, so the last bit of high frequency detail will be represented ok, it's just
maybe not much information goes into this area as regards the whole piece of music?

Looking at this, ok they have different responses, but so what? Yes, but these differences look subtle but WILL impact on the balance of the sound. High quality gear reveals it, warts and all.

BTW I shunted up the 009 responses so they lined up to the 007s. The 009 was 5 DB louder approx. That extra 5 DB on my Stax amp relates to 3 for the 009s and 4.5 for the 007s for the same sound level, which is quite a big difference. It shows how anything beyond say 2 DB could be obvious and easy to hear in piece of music.
post #2373 of 2809
Quote:
Originally Posted by SONYES View Post
 

HI 

  I AM FROM ISRAEL

 

NEED HALP

 

I WHANT TO BAY  SR 009+SRM007TII / SRM727II  

  OR

 SR007 MKII+SRM007TII  ONLY AS SET  

 

THIS  WHAT WE CAN BAY HER  

 

I HAVE 

 

HD 800/  T1

LUXMAN P-1U  AND  BCL

 

I WHANT OPEN DEEP WIDE AS HD800 VERY WELL BASS AND MID TO HER ALL THAT IS IN THE MUSIC

 

I LISEN TO  MOZART OPERAS  AND MORE SYENPHONY  MAHLER BETHOVEN .........

 

HOW IS THE BEST FOR THAT KIND  OF MUSIC 

 

THANK YOU

SR-009 + SRM-323S

 

Don't use any other Stax amp unless you want something tubey or colored sounding.

 

The HD800's soundstage might be wider but the 009's is deeper and more precise.

 

Another option might be the Sony Qualia (Q010 or Q010-MDR1) if you can find one that fits, but it's extremely rare and fit is absolutely critical to proper sound, so finding one AND finding one that's the right size, simultaneously, only happens once in a blue moon.


Edited by takato14 - 5/16/14 at 1:38pm
post #2374 of 2809
Quote:
SR-009 + SRM-323S

Don't use any other Stax amp unless you want something tubey or colored sounding.

I am not sure about that? Is the 323S going to do justice to the 009s? And he will need a great source
or the 009s will be very ruthless (reveal irritating treble edge in the source).

I am wondering if he might be better with an 007 and a weaked 727 to Spritzers brief.
The 007 will be more forgiving of a less than stellar source, and the tweaked 727 will drive it really well.

Or he may actually like a tubed Stax amp like the 007t, which can be improved with decent valves.
and the 009s. Might be better for strings etc.

Pity there is no amp in the price gap between Stax amps and BHSE or WES......
post #2375 of 2809

I don't have 009 on hand but I like the 323s + Lambda Nova Signature combo enough to say confidently I'd rather have that particular amp with that particular stat over say the 717 and KGSS.  Luckily I have choices.  Must be a synergy thing.

post #2376 of 2809

I cant understand how you could describe Stax amps as tubey or colored! Of the new offerings the 323 does offer the best bang for the buck, but many of the vintage amps like the SRM-T1, SRM-1Mk/II and 12S are good too. 

The tube amps are certainly smoother and more laid back and a little less dynamic than the solid state. In fact some would say they can be preferable with the 009 as they can smooth the treble if you find it a little too much. They will certainly still be running when some of the current FOM have long gone.  

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by takato14 View Post
 

SR-009 + SRM-323S

 

Don't use any other Stax amp unless you want something tubey or colored sounding.

 

 

post #2377 of 2809
Quote:
I don't have 009 on hand but I like the 323s + Lambda Nova Signature combo enough to say confidently I'd rather have that particular amp with that particular stat over say the 717 and KGSS. Luckily I have choices. Must be a synergy thing.


No No, this is bad advice dude. The Lambda in another league (lower) than the 009s so any connection here is worthless / not relevant.
The 009 is easy to drive but is another detail / resolution level and will reveal all the fault of the cheaper parts and less voltage in the 323s.
Turn up the volume pot and see what happens....

I have heard both the 323s and the 717 (which I am using right now) and the 717 rocks. It sounds great with the 009s which I tested this week against the BHSE
and it was not miles behind actually. A second hand 717 or a modded 727 would be better IMHO if on a budget. Next step up would be a big jump in money to the KGSS and upwards.

But I am sticking with my 717. I am not convinced the jump is worth the money for me. And I like the less hassle aspect of valves in the stat amp.

Turning this on it's head, the advice to get an 009 also depends on the front end (DAC and Transport). If that is low quality the system will be top heavy and
will reveal all the problems, giving an unsatisfactory sound overall. It is complicated. If the front end is lower qulity he may be better looking at a 507 and get a better
DAC?
post #2378 of 2809
Astrostar, I like your thoughts on giving the source before getting the 009. I have the 007 mk1 with the KGSSHV and I was wincing many a time when I heard some of my material. I am busy now upgrading to lossless and 24/192.
post #2379 of 2809

My Headamp KGSS easily outshines my 717 especially with the 009's. Wish it was closer because it would be so much easier to travel with the 717.

post #2380 of 2809
Hi jaycalgary
You heard any None Oversampling DACs? I find they sound much better than Delta-Sigma DACs including most higher resolution files.
It might be worth looking at that. My front end changed a lot (for the better) after I abandoned the over sampling hype / Bull.

Let your ears do the talking.....Redbook can sound amazing.
post #2381 of 2809

I think we have to get things into perspective here a little :blink:

 

Broadly speaking the design of the Stax amplifier ranges (2xx, 3xx, 6xx and 7xx) over the years have broadly stayed the same. Yes there have been a few tweaks here and there and a few more novel designs like DC coupling and hybrids (SRM-3, SRA-3S) so you are not looking at radically different designs from the vintage stuff. Also just because the 7 series is more expensive than the 3 its dangerous to assume the parts are significantly different in quality. If you have ever worked in manufacturing and retailing you will know that packaging up something which is pretty much a similar product in a premium look means you can increase both the price and the profit margin :D

 

As  you have already discovered the 009's are significantly easier to drive than their predecessors so IMO high voltage output does not need to be the main criteria. In fact the 7x series only outputs 50 volts more (about 10%) than the 323! The 323 is less than half the cost of 7xx series amplifier but I would say provides almost equivalent performance as diminishing returns kick in very quickly. However I believe the 727 is probably Stax's best sounding amplifier from their current range, its a bit more refined than the 323, but you have to make your own value judgment.

 

Personally I would agree with you that providing the best possible source should be the priority, garbage in garbage out! So money spent on the front end source will always pay dividends, as the amp and headphones can't "magic up" information its not being fed.

 

You say the Lambda series in another league (lower) than the 009's. Whilst I agree to some extent they cost 5 to 10 times less than the 009's. Whilst they aren't up to the TOTL Stax they can still beat out the majority of their dynamic brothers in terms of transparency and detail. If you are considering buying from the current Lambda range I would have a good listen first as many prefer the previous series due to changes which some feel had a negative effect on the overall sound. Having listened to the current range myself I feel the 207 offers the best bang for the buck.  

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by astrostar59 View Post


No No, this is bad advice dude. The Lambda in another league (lower) than the 009s so any connection here is worthless / not relevant.
The 009 is easy to drive but is another detail / resolution level and will reveal all the fault of the cheaper parts and less voltage in the 323s.
Turn up the volume pot and see what happens....

I have heard both the 323s and the 717 (which I am using right now) and the 717 rocks. It sounds great with the 009s which I tested this week against the BHSE
and it was not miles behind actually. A second hand 717 or a modded 727 would be better IMHO if on a budget. Next step up would be a big jump in money to the KGSS and upwards.

But I am sticking with my 717. I am not convinced the jump is worth the money for me. And I like the less hassle aspect of valves in the stat amp.

Turning this on it's head, the advice to get an 009 also depends on the front end (DAC and Transport). If that is low quality the system will be top heavy and
will reveal all the problems, giving an unsatisfactory sound overall. It is complicated. If the front end is lower qulity he may be better looking at a 507 and get a better
DAC?

Edited by complin - 5/17/14 at 5:05am
post #2382 of 2809
The 717 does sound quit e a lot better to my ears than the 323s when I had the 323 here through my 007s. Turn up the volume above half way and you will see....

The Lambda Nova Signatures were happy with either amp as far as I could tell.

And the inside design looks kinda quite different i.e more heat sinks, 2 x plug in boards for left and right output,
bigger trans, more caps in the PS decent resistors dotted about.

I am not saying the 323s is bad, only the 717 is quite different. Also the 717 doesn't have the feedback removed like the
existing 727 which sounds rather poor.


post #2383 of 2809
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrostar59 View Post


No No, this is bad advice dude. The Lambda in another league (lower) than the 009s so any connection here is worthless / not relevant.
The 009 is easy to drive but is another detail / resolution level and will reveal all the fault of the cheaper parts and less voltage in the 323s.
Turn up the volume pot and see what happens....

I have heard both the 323s and the 717 (which I am using right now) and the 717 rocks. It sounds great with the 009s which I tested this week against the BHSE
and it was not miles behind actually. A second hand 717 or a modded 727 would be better IMHO if on a budget. Next step up would be a big jump in money to the KGSS and upwards.

 

No offense astro but that's not what I am saying.  No doubt the 009 is probably better on a 717 versus a 323s but I've heard firsthand the LNS on 717 Kgss and 323s and very easily the 323s was my pick.

 

I know on paper it's probably the weaker amp but there is a great synergy of that combo I have yet to replicate on another amp.

post #2384 of 2809
Quote:
the 323s was my pic
k

Fair enough. Maybe your upstream gear suit the 323S? My LNS were a bit bright or should I say leaning towards an edgy treble quality which will emphasise
a brighter DAC or source. Possibly they also don't need the extra juice in a 717?

The LNS and 323S were probably designed to work as a set so synergy is the name of the game as you say.
post #2385 of 2809

Hi Folks,

 

looking for some help from the communal Stax braintrust....

 

I have picked up a set of SR-Xmk3, and have an SRD7 on its way to me....  (this will be my intro to Earspeakers)

 

Two things are immediately apparent 

 

1) the SRX needs new pads - what are my options? Any options other than pleather?

2) the SRD7 is labelled 100V.  Can it handle my local 240V power? - How do I check whether it can? (I'd rather not let out the essential smoke that makes it work...) Can I look for a specific PCB version, etc...?

 

Thanks in advance for assistance

 

David

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