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The Stax Thread III - Page 158

post #2356 of 3332
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrostar59 View Post

My 'hope' is the 009 sounds so good with my 717 amp I can just live with that and not have to sell my wife to get the BHSE.
 

Hmm, wife or BHSE? Tricky call....

post #2357 of 3332
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAttorney View Post

Hmm, wife or BHSE? Tricky call....
I'm getting married on Saturday, so 'unfortunately' I'll have to pass on that one :-D
post #2358 of 3332

HI 

  I AM FROM ISRAEL

 

NEED HALP

 

I WHANT TO BAY  SR 009+SRM007TII / SRM727II  

  OR

 SR007 MKII+SRM007TII  ONLY AS SET  

 

THIS  WHAT WE CAN BAY HER  

 

I HAVE 

 

HD 800/  T1

LUXMAN P-1U  AND  BCL

 

I WHANT OPEN DEEP WIDE AS HD800 VERY WELL BASS AND MID TO HER ALL THAT IS IN THE MUSIC

 

I LISEN TO  MOZART OPERAS  AND MORE SYENPHONY  MAHLER BETHOVEN .........

 

HOW IS THE BEST FOR THAT KIND  OF MUSIC 

 

THANK YOU


Edited by SONYES - 5/14/14 at 1:14pm
post #2359 of 3332
My mini review of the 007s and 009s with the SRM-717 and the BHSE with 4 x Mullard tubes and 4 x PSVane Tubes.

The demo session was for 4 intensive hours today at David's place. Source was his K-01 as CD spinner and using
its built in DAC. Settings on the K-01 were:

1. Filters off
2. Oversampling off
3. RCA connection to 717
4. XLR connection to BHSE
5. 1 hour plus warm up before starting 4 hour session
6. Music was AIFFs extracted using XLD to a CD at 44.1.
7. 11 tracks used of various music types (Armin Van Buuren, Alex M.o.r.p.h., Rammstien, Beyonce, Pink Floyd Wall Remastered)

007 v 009 with the SRM-717
First up, we tried the 007s with the 717 amp, and then A/B compared the same tracks immediately to the 009s with the 717.
It became obvious that the 009s were more transparent, livelier in the top registers and also wider sound stage. The bass was about
the same level and weight compared to the midrange levels, but was tighter and less one note. Not that the bass on the 007s is so one note, it was simply the 009s gave more information and was more musical / realistic.

It was also obvious the 009s were much easier to drive as we had the volume at 3 on the 717 volume pot and 4-5 with the 007s.
The sound signature of the 009s appeared bright only going from the 007 straight through to the 009s. If we listened to the 009s for a few tracks right through, this perception changed, and I was left with hearing a balanced sound with lots of detail and fast transients, no distortion or edge, just pure music. this was getting exciting. The sound was really pretty damb good from the 717, and the slight loss of focus or loosening in the bass with the 007s had vanished, even at high listening levels.

I would put the jump from my 007s to the 009s with the 717 amp as a leap of 30% in quality.

007 with the BHSE and Stock Mullard tubes
Next I listened to the same tracks on the 007s through the BHSE. The 007s came more alive, as though they had a fully charged battery all of a sudden. Everything was better and faster, the sound stage was wider, and the bass was under full control at last. Also the midrange became more prominent and smoother, and vocals sounded real rather than 'hi-fi' in nature. It was to me, the treble that really smoothed out, lost and edge or cold character, and no longer held the sound back. I think the treble quality is the part of
the sound signature I struggled with in the past, and clearly the BHSE has that sorted. Effectively play the music and forget the gear.

I would put the jump from my 007s with the 717 amp to the 007s with the BHSE as a leap of 20% in quality.

009s with the BHSE and PSVane Tubes
Next David put the PSVane tubes in, rebalanced them, let them warm up for 45 mins, then played the same tracks with the 009s.
Here the 009s went again to the next level. They were more alive and controlled than driven by the 717, but the jump in that respect was not as big as the 007s, which were struggling driven by the 717. In the 009s case, the sound was cleaner, warmer, even wider sound stage and generally a more sophisticated sound. Everything just sounded cleaner and more realistic / organic. An acoustic guitar sounded like an acoustic guitar instead of a CD recording. It is difficult to explain, but basically I found I was analysing less and listening to the tracks right through instead, forgetting I was supposed to be doing a demo.

I would put the jump from my 007s with the BHSE to the 009s with the BHSE as a leap of 25% in quality.

And for my final analysis I would put the jump from my 007s with the 717 to the 009s with the BHSE as a leap of 45% in quality.

So, after this I have decided the best plan for me, and my budgets and my system, is to get the 009s and run them for a while with the 717 amp. That gave me a bigger jump then keeping the 007s and getting a BHSE. It is also a bit cheaper going that route.

Then possibly at some later date, and money allowing, I may get a BHSE.

The advantage of a 717 (solid state amp) is I would leave it on during the afternoon - evening period when I have to take the dogs out. I know it sounds trivial but that would no doubt lead to more use than saving tubes or having 2 switch ons a day for the BHSE.

Which brings me full circle back to the 007s. I do love those headphones, and can see the potential with a great am driving them. But for me, even with that, the general sound signature of the 007s with it's dropped treble response (shown in the past by measurements by Inner Fidelity) was still holding back the BHSE.

I can see how the 007s will work really well with as brighter front end, or for a customer who likes a warmer / darker sound. It is a very polite headphone and has a great midrange IMHO. The bass of my Mk2.5s is a bit emphasised maybe, further enhanced by the shelved mid-upper treble. I just fell in love with the detail and wide band sound of the 009s. It was just more of everything. I know that can be a blessing or a curse, but with careful system building (DAC & Transport/Computer)
it can sound truly fantastic.

It's a bit like do you want to listen to the concert in the 10th row (007s) or the 3rd row (009s). Both are correct, but mine is row 3 I feel.....

David is a great Head-Fier, clearly a dedicated enthusiast, so thanks a bunch for letting me play with his BHSE and 009s.
post #2360 of 3332

Great to have your impressions like this astro.  So your 007 was mk2.5 and you didn't get to try mk1 or mk2?

 

I find it most telling:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by astrostar59 View Post

I would put the jump from my 007s with the BHSE to the 009s with the BHSE as a leap of 25% in quality.

And for my final analysis I would put the jump from my 007s with the 717 to the 009s with the BHSE as a leap of 45% in quality.

So, after this I have decided the best plan for me, and my budgets and my system, is to get the 009s and run them for a while with the 717 amp. That gave me a bigger jump then keeping the 007s and getting a BHSE. It is also a bit cheaper going that route.

 

So what I am reading is that it's more efficient to go 009 + 717 than it is to go 007 + BHSE... also that while both 007 and 009 benefitted greatly with the BHSE, the 007 improved more than the 009 improved hence the 717 should do a great job until funds permit...

 

I think similar things have been said in the past but still great to know.

post #2361 of 3332
Quote:
So what I am reading is that it's more efficient to go 009 + 717 than it is to go 007 + BHSE... also that while both 007 and 009 benefitted greatly with the BHSE, the 007 improved more than the 009 improved hence the 717 should do a great job until funds permit...

Yes, that is how I realised it to my ears. There are 2 big areas where the 009s improved on the 717 over the 007s aside from extra detail:
Bass control and dynamics. Both I believe were because the 009s are easier to drive. So an 009 might also sound pretty damb good even with a Stax tube amp
like the 007t?

If the 009s didn't exist, I would have been very happy with the 007 + BHSE system.
The trouble is, the 009 is SUCH as good headphone, it rather upsets the apple cart as we English say. The signature is quite different to the 007.
It's more of everything, but also closer to the source as well. I guess it's a bit of a shock for a long term 007 user.

I am thinking, because it is quite different to the 007s, that is the reason some find it bright. There is no longer a veil or layer between you and the source,
as with the 007s. This veil does mask limitations upstream I think. It is complicated, as the 009s still sounds good with my stand in CD player here until I get
back to Spain. It's the treble quality that needs to be top notch before feeding to the 009s. If you have that sorted (clean source) you will be in heaven with the 009s.

Which makes me think a mid range system might be better with the 007s and a top range system better with the 009s (based on starting from scratch).
Possibly a BHSE with the 007s is like putting a bigger engine in a small car. I goes faster but is on the limit?

Interesting subject.
post #2362 of 3332
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrostar59 View Post
Which brings me full circle back to the 007s. I do love those headphones, and can see the potential with a great am driving them. But for me, even with that, the general sound signature of the 007s with it's dropped treble response (shown in the past by measurements by Inner Fidelity) was still holding back the BHSE.

 

Thanks for the review. I have had exactly the same reaction when comparing Stax headphones (007, 007mk2.5, 007mk1, 507): the 009 was head and shoulders above all of them in the exact way you describe. However, I am not sure any more the gap is that big. The new pads on my 007 mk1 made wonders, especially with the treble of the 007, and the soundstage width. It is not the slightestly tiny bit rolled off any more, but it's not etched either in any way, and it's better defined treble than the 009, which has a kind of light haze quality to it with Stax amps (perhaps cleared by the BHSE).

 

I may have an opportunity to compare with a 009 in 3 weeks time, then I could tell more. I also struggle with the same thing about the 009: I've always felt the 007 could sound better, and they do now, but the 009 is still out there, and how good potential _that_one_ might have? My wife is more tolerant with my hi-fi bug (and my headphones obsession is nothing compared to my speakers obsession), but she would say we should rather use the 009 money to go spend some time together in a nice place :). And she's probably right, as always, hadn't it been for the 009... :)

 

But if you are interested in getting the treble right with 007, it only costs you a little DIY by changing the pad foam to another one cut out from the active carbon filter (available in hardware stores as filter set for e.g. Vallox ventilation machines), and use it without the spring, and optionally without the cloth grill (much easier to assemble, too). For improved sound stage, follow the full mod described in http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/2310#post_10536905, which makes the inner opening bigger.

 

Since you are also in EU, I could even send you my current pads if you promise I'll get them back :), to try them out and do the comparison with the 009. Looks like I can trust your judgement as well as mine. The question is not whether is it becoming better than the 009, since it will be still different, but how close does it get.

 

I think it was Asr how said earlier as a compliment to the TH900 that the 007 mk1 is about 5% better than a well driven TH900 (both in stock form), but having both (with modified ear pads) I can say the difference is more than that, and although IMHO the modded TH900 is currently the best dynamic headphone, but is still bested by my 007 especially in the treble and sound stage, exactly where you find the stock 007 lacking.


Edited by zolkis - 5/15/14 at 3:20am
post #2363 of 3332
Hi Julian,

While I enjoyed our listening session yesterday, one thing I was planning on but ended up not doing, was to also use my iPod with your 717 and my BHSE. I think in using the iPod might have given a better idea on the difference between the 717 and BHSE . In using the K-01, my feeling is it could've brought the 717 and BHSE closer together.

After you went Julian, I listened to some of the music you downloaded ( which I'd like to thank you for ) onto my MacMini via the K-01's DAC and it sounded incredible, I was very impressed with Armin Van Buuren but Rammstien just blew me away, the energy I heard from their music was simply amazing.
As you told me, all the music you downloaded was in AIFF format which is probably why it sounded a lot better than the music I downloaded.
When you have the 009's, I'm interested to know your thoughts on how they sound with your 717 and tubed DAC.
Edited by David1961 - 5/15/14 at 7:07am
post #2364 of 3332

I'm thinking of getting a pair of 009s, does the Woo Audio GES pair well with these or should I be looking at the WES or blue hawaii?

post #2365 of 3332
Quote:
Originally Posted by ftf286 View Post
 

I'm thinking of getting a pair of 009s, does the Woo Audio GES pair well with these or should I be looking at the WES or blue hawaii?


The GES or WES are not popular options for TOTL Stax.

post #2366 of 3332
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrostar59 View Post


009s with the BHSE and PSVane Tubes

Here the 009s went again to the next level. .... Everything just sounded cleaner and more realistic / organic. An acoustic guitar sounded like an acoustic guitar instead of a CD recording.... I would put the jump from my 007s with the BHSE to the 009s with the BHSE as a leap of 25% in quality.

 

As far as I can tell, two things were changed at this point: the 009s and the Psvane EL34PHs. 

IMO, the PHs would have given a significant contribution to the above sound improvement that you experienced - irrespective of the headphones under test.

 

A better comparison would have been to change only one thing at a time. I realise there may not have been enough time to try every combination, but it has left a question mark nevertheless.

post #2367 of 3332
Quote:
the PHs would have given a significant contribution to the above sound improvement that you experienced - irrespective of the headphones under test.

I did hear the 007s with both the Mullard tubes and the Psvanes. I didn't write about it as I would intend to use the PHs only if I had the 009s and the BHSE.

With the 007s, the PHs did tame the treble energy a bit to my ears, and the Mullards gave a boost to compensate for the perceived lack of upper treble response in the 007s.
It was debatable which was best, Psvane smoothness, or Mullard treble lift? I was not sure.

By the time I got to this stage, I had fallen for the 009s and was focused on that for the last 45 minutes of the demo.

I am of the opinion that, to put a 5.5k amp in front of the 007s was good, but didn't hit the right spot. It was well behind the 009s in all respects.
So much so, I would even say the 009s with my 717 sounded better to my ears than the 007s with the BHSE and PH tubes or Mullards.

Possibly I really liked the 009s presentation? I have a tubed DAC so I can see I will be ok with the extra treble energy or removal of the 007 veil
so to speak.

I can report back in 2 months time once I get back to Spain and hook up my front end to the incoming 009s.

I think the front end in so important at this level. The treble quality is so important and to me has the biggest impact - making or breaking everything else
that may be good or great about the SQ on offer.

I also think folk need a good session with the 009s. The brain does adjust to the different presentation from the 007s, First off it seems a bit bright,
but actually it is the amount of detail that is coming through. This might also be why some think the bass is lighter on the 009s to the 007s. In my view
the 007 has a bloomier bass, or a slight bloat in the mid bass, that sounds like extra energy but actually isn't. The bass on the 009 is right there to hear,
and is very fast, on or off fast, no overshoot, no bloat.

I hope this helps. It is so difficult to describe in words. I just got an emotional connection with the 009s, and though I love my 007s, it was for me
the full story on offer, great e-stat attributes (as the 007) but also a presentation to a higher level than I have heard before.
post #2368 of 3332
Quote:
Originally Posted by ftf286 View Post
 

I'm thinking of getting a pair of 009s, does the Woo Audio GES pair well with these or should I be looking at the WES or blue hawaii?


BHSE all the way! (If you can find one).

post #2369 of 3332
Quote:
Originally Posted by johangrb View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ftf286 View Post

 
I'm thinking of getting a pair of 009s, does the Woo Audio GES pair well with these or should I be looking at the WES or blue hawaii?


BHSE all the way! (If you can find one).

I've never heard the GES or WES, but if using 009's with the BHSE, then IMO Psvane EL34PH tubes are a must.
Edited by David1961 - 5/15/14 at 10:45pm
post #2370 of 3332
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrostar59 View Post

The advantage of a 717 (solid state amp) is I would leave it on during the afternoon - evening period when I have to take the dogs out. I know it sounds trivial but that would no doubt lead to more use than saving tubes or having 2 switch ons a day for the BHSE.

Although it would probably be safe to leave the BHSE on power unattended, it's something I would never do, so with you having the confidence to leave your 717 on while going out Julian, it might be a good idea to ask Justin if he's any plans in the near future to build the KGSSHV.
If Justin did start building the KGSSHV, I'm not sure how it's SQ would compare to the BHSE, but I've NO DOUBT it's build quality would be on par.
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