or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › The Stax Thread III
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Stax Thread III - Page 154

post #2296 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by cat6man View Post
 

 

Hi there,

 

Can you share more on the parenthetical "icing on the cake" part please?

 

I'm currently down the rabbit hole, looking up, and optimizing my streamer==>DAC==>BHSE==>009 system, with psvane and stock tubes.

I have 'meh' cables right now (belkin usb, low end audioquest balanced interconnects) and just took the PSAudio power conditioner out of the loop to get back to a baseline.

Over the years with testing a number of high end cables in speaker and headphone systems, I ended up really liking the Stealth Indra and Sakra cables, especially in the bass, where there is a transparency that I haven't heard in any other cables.

They also seem to remove some level pain from the upper highs, making them rounder and fuller. I tried this on several speakers like Khama 3.2s and Harbeth SHL5s and SF Cremona Auditors.

But they are neutral cables, and in some situations, I like Cardas Golden Cross ICs to subdue, maybe even roll-off, the highs. The Cardas is refined and still keeps things tight and controlled, and just sounds musical.

Synergistic Research cables are also nice, but not as refined as the others.

 

For some reason, I like RCA over XLR ICs on my 007t / SR009 combo (more mellow).

 

My favorite power cable for digital is the older Shunyata Anaconda VX  (still around used sometimes on audiogon) (the Anaconda Alpha Helix from later on is also very good).

The Shunyata power conditioners also remove fatigue in all systems I have tried. The Hydra 8 and especially the Triton are what I like.

I didn't like the PS power conditioner (regenerator) I tried -- it was too hyped up. (A PS300, but that was 10 yrs ago.)


Edited by rgs9200m - 5/8/14 at 8:16am
post #2297 of 5594
Lots of talk about the 009s being bright here, and even brighter on the BHSE.

I will soon hear for myself next week, as I am visiting a Head-Fi-er to hear the 009s and BHSE but also directly compare my 007Mk2s and the BHSE
and my SRM-717 powering the 009s.

Ahead of the evaluation, I am convinced the 007s were designed on purpose to tame the current trend of modern DACs to be very detailed
and leaning towards a brighter balance. I abandoned Delta-Sigma DACs to move over to NOS tubed DACs for this same bright and possibly
solid state sound? Maybe I wouldn't go so far as saying treble etch, or digital edge? But I certainly fell out with many solid state DAC designs
and solid state amps for my speaker set up.

I wonder why Justin dropped the KGSSHV product in favour of the EL34 tube route? Solid state can sound great, accurate, exciting. Maybe it is
too much of that with a solid state front end (DAC and possibly a pre-amp) into a solid state headphone amp with truly revealing headphones?

At a live gig we keep talking about, we are live yes, BUT we are set back behind people and seats (normally). In a classical theatre the design
of the space leans towards a warm sound by the nature of the environment. In a rock concert, we are again amongst people and other energy
absorbing items. These all act as filters or subtle screens i.e delays in sound and softening of edges to the sound.

With phones like the 009s we now have a direct wire if you like, to the drum, the guitar or the human voice, as though we are on stage?
It is no wonder the upstream gear is critical. Is it the 009s remove all the layers, and leave the whole for all to hear. If it's bright,
then it is the fault of the gear driving it. The response of the 009 is very flat right? And the transducers very fast, faster than any other speaker?

So, my idea is to have a balanced system, we might need either tubes in the mix or a warm DAC with the 009s.

I don't know yet, but hope to know next week.

I might hazard a guess that some (including Spritzer) may have solid state detailed (cold?) sounding DACs that just don't gell
with the 009s. Maybe the happy 009 users are using tube rolling to bring back a small amount of warmth or organic feel to
the music? Just enough to them make a match in heaven - detail and warmth. Possibly a great amp (and a great headphone) can be truly great,
and system match the rest of the gear upstream and downstream with careful tube selection / cables and even software (not EQ software).

I wouldn't try and use mellow sounding tubes with my 007s for example, as they are already heading that way. I kinda like that, but only
subtle. Not too dark or obvious, just enough to make the music sound real for my tastes.

It's a fascinating subject, and expensive if we get it wrong.... thoughts invited!
post #2298 of 5594
OK. you are saying Stax messed up their drivers on purpose so that they don't sound too bad with current DACs?
And that Spritzer has poor sounding DAC's?
mmhhhhhh......
And Justin never sold the KGSSHV.
And electrons dont care whether cables are pretty or not.
Edited by gilency - 5/8/14 at 10:39pm
post #2299 of 5594

pretty sure stax thinks they got it right, where "right" just happens to align with the modern perspective that an accentuated treble presence implies a "detailed and analytic" sound

 

iirc spritzer owns an MSB platinum III? That DAC is clearly garbage

 

I don't care much for cables either but if people want to play with them it's their prerogative. I certainly like the way ribbon cables look so I intend on purchasing some fancy ones when I run out of things to tweak on the component side

post #2300 of 5594
I think Justin did the KGSS Julian ( which I believe he no longer does ).
IMO the proof with anything in audio is in the listening, which is why when you visit my place next week Julian, we're going to try both your 007mk2's and my 009's with the BHSE, but first with the stock Mullard's, and then the PH's.
I've a feeling the 007mk2's will sound better with the stock Mullard's, but time will tell.
post #2301 of 5594
Quote:
OK. you are saying Stax messed up their drivers on purpose so that they don't sound too bad with current DACs?
And that Spritzer has poor sounding DAC's?
mmhhhhhh......
And Justin never sold the KGSSHV.
And electrons dont care whether cables are pretty or not.
Edited by gilency - Yesterday

Get up to speed please!!!!

http://www.headamp.com/electrostat_amps/kgss/

And are we saying NO interconnects affect the sound now! You need to clean your ears..

I think as we can read from many posts both in the Stax threads, Senn threads and others, many folk at this level begin
to hit the buffers with some issue with treble emphasis or quality. I believe in my own ears, and it is the upper treble that is the last
hurdle, the final part of the sound signature to complete the illusion of live music. I had less of an issue with my vinyl rig going back years,
but I believe that was because
1. It was not digital (that is a whole new subject)
2. The Frequency response was kinder to the ears (tailed off in the upper treble)
3. Had a warmer (welcome to my Stax gear) sound signature

I think headfiers may be more aware of these potential problems than audiophile guys with top tier speaker systems.
Remember, the room and furnishings, speaker placement, all these help to tame and control the SQ to an extent.
And playing music in a room at 'normal' domestic levels is not as in your face as what I would call 'near field' level of sound
through phones, even at normal (safe) listening levels. It's a bit like sticking your head real close to your speakers tweeter.
Doesn't sound so hot does it?

We don't have that 'luxury' so it can be a curse, or a benefit however you want to see it. For those who have built a balanced set of components
that gel together (system synergy) they are very happy indeed. That is my goal of this hobby, and why it interests me so much.
All the components affect the SQ.

I DO believe the 007s were Stax's answer to the lack of bass on the long running Lambda series. Nobody could argue with the mid range, though
the treble edge of my Lambda's over the years emphasised digital edge which was not a good combination.

Companies make products to suit what people want, and yes, it is AMAZING Stax may have made the 007 knowing it had -5db treble drop.
How many v shaped (expensive) IE phones do that? A company not listening to their customers, or at least dealers,
making products that are not selling is going to fail right?

I accept the 007s treble drop, it is it's character and personality. It also allows it to sound good on lower quality front ends.
To me, it was the first Stax phone to have decent bass as a catch up to the better dynamics, without me loosing my love of that midrange
magic of electros.
post #2302 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrostar59 View Post

Get up to speed please!!!!

http://www.headamp.com/electrostat_amps/kgss/

Er no! gilency is correct that Justin never sold a KGSSHV.

 

The link you're looking at is the old KGSS without the HV. I know it's only two letters difference, but it matters sometimes :) 

post #2303 of 5594
.
Edited by gilency - 5/9/14 at 7:01am
post #2304 of 5594
I don't know what has been happening here of late. But there is a lot of bs being thrown around. Lots of very experienced voices here, and then the others. Dial it In. Boring read.
post #2305 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrostar59 View Post


Get up to speed please!!!!

http://www.headamp.com/electrostat_amps/kgss/

...

 

You know you were commenting back to the designer of both the KGSS and KGSSHV?  KGSS=Kevin Gilmore Solid State=gilency.  I think you need to get up to speed.  As for your other comments, I'll point out to you that Kevin Gilmore is one of the leading designers of electrostatic amps (think blue hawaii/kgss/kgsshv/etc.) and headphone amps in general.  While you may disagree with some of what he says, I doubt you should try to lecture him.  His knowledge on the space is likely 10x or more than yours.


Edited by Crashem - 5/9/14 at 7:59am
post #2306 of 5594

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoPants View Post
 

pretty sure stax thinks they got it right, where "right" just happens to align with the modern perspective that an accentuated treble presence implies a "detailed and analytic" sound

So what about the Sony Qualia 010 then introduced 2004 ? I have some vintage AKG K240 they are bright too introduced 40 years ago!

 

iirc spritzer owns an MSB platinum III? That DAC is clearly garbage

So how can you justify a comment that this well regarded DAC is garbage? Compared to what!

 

I don't care much for cables either but if people want to play with them it's their prerogative. I certainly like the way ribbon cables look so I intend on purchasing some fancy ones when I run out of things to tweak on the component side

So why are solid silver cables and silver wound transformers regarded as audibly superior by the majority of high end audio designers? 


Edited by complin - 5/9/14 at 8:29am
post #2307 of 5594

Lots of funny stuff in just the last few posts. Funny how everyone trying to correct everyone isn't really clear themselves or understand sarcasm...

post #2308 of 5594

Well if it was intended as sarcasm afraid it flew right over my head :veryevil:

If I were making such comments then I would append .......

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Just kidding :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiStaR View Post
 

Lots of funny stuff in just the last few posts. Funny how everyone trying to correct everyone isn't really clear themselves or understand sarcasm...

post #2309 of 5594
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrostar59 View Post
  Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Lots of talk about the 009s being bright here, and even brighter on the BHSE.

I will soon hear for myself next week, as I am visiting a Head-Fi-er to hear the 009s and BHSE but also directly compare my 007Mk2s and the BHSE
and my SRM-717 powering the 009s.

Ahead of the evaluation, I am convinced the 007s were designed on purpose to tame the current trend of modern DACs to be very detailed
and leaning towards a brighter balance. I abandoned Delta-Sigma DACs to move over to NOS tubed DACs for this same bright and possibly
solid state sound? Maybe I wouldn't go so far as saying treble etch, or digital edge? But I certainly fell out with many solid state DAC designs
and solid state amps for my speaker set up.

I wonder why Justin dropped the KGSSHV product in favour of the EL34 tube route? Solid state can sound great, accurate, exciting. Maybe it is
too much of that with a solid state front end (DAC and possibly a pre-amp) into a solid state headphone amp with truly revealing headphones?

At a live gig we keep talking about, we are live yes, BUT we are set back behind people and seats (normally). In a classical theatre the design
of the space leans towards a warm sound by the nature of the environment. In a rock concert, we are again amongst people and other energy
absorbing items. These all act as filters or subtle screens i.e delays in sound and softening of edges to the sound.

With phones like the 009s we now have a direct wire if you like, to the drum, the guitar or the human voice, as though we are on stage?
It is no wonder the upstream gear is critical. Is it the 009s remove all the layers, and leave the whole for all to hear. If it's bright,
then it is the fault of the gear driving it. The response of the 009 is very flat right? And the transducers very fast, faster than any other speaker?

So, my idea is to have a balanced system, we might need either tubes in the mix or a warm DAC with the 009s.

I don't know yet, but hope to know next week.

I might hazard a guess that some (including Spritzer) may have solid state detailed (cold?) sounding DACs that just don't gell
with the 009s. Maybe the happy 009 users are using tube rolling to bring back a small amount of warmth or organic feel to
the music? Just enough to them make a match in heaven - detail and warmth. Possibly a great amp (and a great headphone) can be truly great,
and system match the rest of the gear upstream and downstream with careful tube selection / cables and even software (not EQ software).

 

 

You're kind of an idiot - that is badly informed, dude.


Edited by paradoxper - 5/9/14 at 9:18am
post #2310 of 5594

A bit strong ... more badly informed

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by paradoxper View Post
 

You're kind of an idiot, dude.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › The Stax Thread III