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The Stax Thread III - Page 151

post #2251 of 2789
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxper View Post
 

That's still pretty generally broad. I find the HD800 rather bright as well, however the mk 1 on the KGSSHV is really no where near bright or annoying.

Further, the 009 is pretty damn magical and yes, just a tad bright. I'm hoping I'll get use to it because it's no where near as problematic as the HD800.

 

Oh yea, I'm 24 btw. So now you know someone 'of age' that defies your generalization.

I don't just find the HD 800 bright, I find it intolerable.

 

The Mk1 on the KGSSHV is very good. I never suggested it being bright.

 

Yes, the SR-009 isn't as bad as the HD 800. It doesn't have to be bright -- I've heard it rather agreeable sometimes.

 

Thanks for that counterpoint. Have you tried the SR-009 on, say, the EC Electra?

post #2252 of 2789

That is, the SR-009 with the KGSSHV is not a problem, which you adamantly disagree with. Comparative to the mk 1, for example, yea, it's a tad bright. However compare that to the HD800 it's really nothing.

 

I might have some thick ears because I somewhat enjoyed certain aspects of the HD800 with Mojo/Gun so I know bright.

 

I've heard good things about the Electra, however I haven't heard it. I'd probably stick with KG designs i.e. BHSE. 

post #2253 of 2789

I've only had my KGSShv for a short time but so far I don't find it bright. Well extended? Definitely. Not colored or mushy or smoothed over? Nope, none of those. I love it with my 007. I definitely hear the improvement over the various Stax amps I've recently tried (including 727, 007t, 323, SRA-12S, and 600LTD) as well as the WES and original Liquid Lightning. KGSShv is on a completely different level compared to those models imho. 

 

The 009 is an amazing headphone (earspeaker?) but I do find it a little bright for my taste. Consequently, I could see wanting to run it with a slightly smoother amp. I'm not really sure what amp that might be though.... The WES with the right tubes would do the job to some degree but it kinda falls apart with certain music in my experience.

post #2254 of 2789
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X0 View Post

Indeed, that's well stated.

I don't know of a gentleman who enjoys the SR-009 + KGSSHV pairing that's not younger than their late 30s or so -- presbycusis?

I don't fit the generalization either I'm 31 and I don't mind my 009/kgbh combo's amount of high freqs. I mean if the source material is strident, it's certainly not going to change that and I would reach my mk1.
I had a lot of younger people than me listen to my rig at the NC meet a few weeks back too and none complained about the kg amp and 009 being overly bright, well at least to me anyway
post #2255 of 2789

I think that if people stood near a piano or violin played with gusto that they would find them overly bright at times if they were sensitive to treble.

 

If the amp and the headphones accurately reproduce that level of sound, they naturally tend to blame the amp, headphone or both rather than the source material as the problem area.


Edited by wink - 5/6/14 at 10:49am
post #2256 of 2789
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X0 View Post

....

 

I personally find even the Omega to be rather strident on the KGSSHV. It is not to the point of being harsh, but audibly annoying.

 

That's just for me personally. .....

 



Then you can safey save your money as the 009 sounds quite similar in the top end on the the T2 as it does on the KGSSHV. I therefore doubt you would enjoy your Omega (which has been reputed by some to have a somewhat bright top end when properly amped) on the T2 either. But I normally listen at low volume levels (where people around me cannot hear anything coming from the headphones), whether it be the 007MKI or 009.

What i normally find is the problem when I can't stand listening (at higher volumes) is the source material (or the source), is not well suited to listening with headphones.
post #2257 of 2789
Quote:
Originally Posted by wink View Post
 

I think that if people stood near a piano or violin played with gusto that they would find them overly bright at times if they were sensitive to treble.

Yes, the violin has harmonics that extend into the top of our threshold of hearing.

 

I would be curious, again, to see a comparison of the measurements of the SR-007 and SR-009 from the SRM-T1, SRM-717, KGSSHV, BHSE, ECE, et alia. Realistically I'm only concerned about the linear and nonlinear performance above 1KHz as the higher registers have been my only pain point with the KGSSHV.

 

Such would help me better understand what I perceive. It's quite possible the Omega off "lesser" amplifiers has diminished performance in the upper registers that I find desirable for my listening needs. I would be comfortable with that outcome.

post #2258 of 2789
Quote:
Originally Posted by wink View Post
 

I think that if people stood near a piano or violin played with gusto that they would find them overly bright at times if they were sensitive to treble.

 

If the amp and the headphones accurately reproduce that level of sound, they naturally tend to blame the amp, headphone or both rather than the source material as the problem area.


Very true. Sharpness / brightness can be a desired part of a record if the musician and/or engineer wants it to be there.

post #2259 of 2789
Age is probably not the answer. Listening preference (music type and volume) probably is.

Also, someone with hyperacousis (could be in his/her 20s/30s/40s and this is becoming a very popular disease) would certainly not enjoy an hd800 or sr009 at moderate/high volume level, nor could they stand nearby a real trumpet for very long.

Arnaud
post #2260 of 2789

It's a mental thing.  Ever notice how the best performing amplifiers (i.e. can't knock them for their technical prowess) are only described as 'bright'?  Can't think of any labeled as 'dark'. 

 

I don't like amps described as bright or dark since it doesn't make sense to me...I think it depends on the load interaction between headphone and amp.

post #2261 of 2789
Quote:
Originally Posted by n3rdling View Post
 

It's a mental thing.  Ever notice how the best performing amplifiers (i.e. can't knock them for their technical prowess) are only described as 'bright'?  Can't think of any labeled as 'dark'. 

 

I don't like amps described as bright or dark since it doesn't make sense to me...I think it depends on the load interaction between headphone and amp.

Boom headshot.

post #2262 of 2789
Quote:
Originally Posted by n3rdling View Post
 

It's a mental thing.  Ever notice how the best performing amplifiers (i.e. can't knock them for their technical prowess) are only described as 'bright'?  Can't think of any labeled as 'dark'. 

 

I don't like amps described as bright or dark since it doesn't make sense to me...I think it depends on the load interaction between headphone and amp.

I've always wondered what Stax is using for voicing behind-the-scenes.

 

The only option in their pedigree that would be ostensibly comparable to aftermarket solutions would be the SRM-T2 but I can't fathom them maintaining a unit in-house for that long and making R&D/voicing judgments with it.

 

If (big if) one were to determine with complete certainty that the SR-009 was voiced with the SRM-727 for example, it would make a bit more sense. For one, the pairing doesn't have particularly offensive treble. Additionally, they still sell the SRM-727 so it would be sensible from a business standpoint as well  In other words since the SRM-T2 is long gone now, it wouldn't make sense for them to design products with it when it no longer represents a viable source of additional revenue.

 

I have no idea if this was covered or disclosed in the Stax interview.


Edited by 3X0 - 5/6/14 at 5:59pm
post #2263 of 2789

I go to plenty of live classical music performances, either orchestral, piano or chamber music.

To my ears, the 009 is the closest thing to being there and that is my comparison, rather than amplifier to amplifier.

Classical music up close, including violin and piano can be quite loud, and yes, at times strident. Try some Brahms or Shostakovich if you are close to the performers.

post #2264 of 2789
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X0 View Post
 

I've always wondered what Stax is using for voicing behind-the-scenes.

 

The only option in their pedigree that would be ostensibly comparable to aftermarket solutions would be the SRM-T2 but I can't fathom them maintaining a unit in-house for that long and making R&D/voicing judgments with it.

 

If (big if) one were to determine with complete certainty that the SR-009 was voiced with the SRM-727 for example, it would make a bit more sense. For one, the pairing doesn't have particularly offensive treble. Additionally, they still sell the SRM-727 so it would be sensible from a business standpoint as well  In other words since the SRM-T2 is long gone now, it wouldn't make sense for them to design products with it when it no longer represents a viable source of additional revenue.

 

I have no idea if this was covered or disclosed in the Stax interview.

Arnaud or Currawong would know as that was one of the questions in the Stax interview.  I think they use the 727 and 007t but I'm not completely sure. 

post #2265 of 2789

And before that, according to the interview write-up, they used the T1. But they also suggest they design the headphone from a technical perspective first, and then add the amp later to field test to verify - so I didn't get the sense that they "voice" their headphones to any particular amp. I also seem to recall that they don't restrict their listening to the base amps when developing new HPs, but I can't sift through the various threads that it could have been stated in, so is best left to one of the authors/interviewers involved to clarify.


Edited by georgep - 5/6/14 at 7:37pm
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