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post #1951 of 5140

The designer perhaps was very fond of that input stage when he drew it. :bigsmile_face:

post #1952 of 5140
Quote:
 the characteristics of a typical tube amp (that is, there are no warm lush 2nd harmonics out of a blue hawaii).

Hmm, that might be relevant in 1960 but any well designed tube amplifier with tube regulated power supply and tube output will

be so linear and clear, you might just think it is SS topology!

 

Modern tube amplifiers give full bandwidth and low distortion we all expect from Modern hi-fi components, but avoid

the pitfall of many SS designs as transistors are not linear and require lots of extra circuit trickery to make them so.

It is this that changes the sound in my opinion. 

 

I have lived with Krell and McIntosh (SS) varieties, and lost interest in music from RedBook. Tubes brought me back.

 

Yes, an 18W SET power amp won't drive huge inefficient speakers, which are designed for bigger output SS amps,

BUT find a good speaker of 92DB efficiency and the sound will hook you in.

 

My 2 cents. Each to their own, but don't sling none facts around please....

post #1953 of 5140
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrostar59 View Post
 

Interesting. I see you run the SR-007s Mk1 or Mk2? and a Stax 323.

 

I also use the SR-007 MK2.5s with a SRM-717, but I feed it from my Audio Note pre-amp out and run

the Stax without it's volume i.e. flat out at Class A. The sound I am getting is a lot more dynamic and

lively than direct from my DAC into the Stax amp with it's volume control switched in.

 

I have tried the system with Delta-Sigma DACs but I found I preferred None Oversampling tubed based types

fed by a server with good SPDIF conversion outboard.

I would recommend trying a NOS DAC if you can. The front end is key to getting a great sound on the Stax, as if

ruthlessly reveals everything. It would be cheaper than going for a mega amp like a KGSS or BHSE.

Mine is the original SR-Omega (1993-1995). Are you sure the Audio Note pre-amp's inclusion in the circuit is not a function of differences in the final output level?

 

I'm not sure of the benefit of NOS DACs though I haven't done a proper level-matched comparison against Delta-Sigma designs. I don't see much of a reason to switch at present though. For one thing, oversampling doesn't introduce audible distortion...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by astrostar59 View Post
 

Hmm, that might be relevant in 1960 but any well designed tube amplifier with tube regulated power supply and tube output will

be so linear and clear, you might just think it is SS topology!

 

Modern tube amplifiers give full bandwidth and low distortion we all expect from Modern hi-fi components, but avoid

the pitfall of many SS designs as transistors are not linear and require lots of extra circuit trickery to make them so.

It is this that changes the sound in my opinion. 

 

My 2 cents. Each to their own, but don't sling none facts around please....

I actually believe linear-performing valve designs were achieved as early as the 1930s.

 

There are still some tube designs that deliberately sound off/"tubey", evident even with simple linear distortion in the frequency response.

 

For example, here's a McIntosh MC275 power amplifier:

And here's a Hyperion HT-88 power amplifier:

The +-1.5dB variance in the FR of the HT-88 will be audible, whereas the +-0.5dB in the MC275 will likely not.

 

I believe it is cheaper to design a linear transistor amplifier that performs transparently, as Bob Carver had demonstrated on numerous occasions. A few years ago I used to think great transistor gear sounded like great valve gear, but I believe the reality is the other way around.


Edited by 3X0 - 4/3/14 at 3:37pm
post #1954 of 5140
Quote:
Originally Posted by astrostar59 View Post
 
 
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
 the characteristics of a typical tube amp (that is, there are no warm lush 2nd harmonics out of a blue hawaii).

Hmm, that might be relevant in 1960 but any well designed tube amplifier with tube regulated power supply and tube output will

be so linear and clear, you might just think it is SS topology!

 

Modern tube amplifiers give full bandwidth and low distortion we all expect from Modern hi-fi components, but avoid

the pitfall of many SS designs as transistors are not linear and require lots of extra circuit trickery to make them so.

It is this that changes the sound in my opinion. 

 

I have lived with Krell and McIntosh (SS) varieties, and lost interest in music from RedBook. Tubes brought me back.

 

Yes, an 18W SET power amp won't drive huge inefficient speakers, which are designed for bigger output SS amps,

BUT find a good speaker of 92DB efficiency and the sound will hook you in.

 

My 2 cents. Each to their own, but don't sling none facts around please....

 

Tubes being technically better! What is this sorcery? :D :p 

 

Anyway, I dared pushing my T1 to 2 o'clock for some 30 seconds with fairly dynamic and peaky music. Used my sigma.. Did I hear any clipping? Well, I might have, though it could just as well have been my ears distorting or something like that. Point is, to push it into clipping I'd definitely need to go way past comfortable listening volume. Maybe I could tolerate bass that loud in a veeery dynamic recording. My mom even came to the door to hear what was going on.


Edited by davidsh - 4/3/14 at 3:35pm
post #1955 of 5140

Had the 2SK389 already been in fabrication when the T2 was designed?

post #1956 of 5140

2sk389/2sj109 came out sometime in early 1980's timeframe.

At least that is the oldest datasheet I have on those parts.

post #1957 of 5140
Just got noticed my sr009 shipped from japan. A lot faster than I originally thought would happen. Bhse on order. Need to get an amp ASAP. Don't want these sr009 sitting around too long without use. Might have to get woo wee and hook them up to this spare parasound a51 lying around.
post #1958 of 5140

I think Stax just finished a batch. I noticed that Fuiya Avic actually had them in stock too rather than just order.

post #1959 of 5140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashem View Post

Just got noticed my sr009 shipped from japan. A lot faster than I originally thought would happen. Bhse on order. Need to get an amp ASAP. Don't want these sr009 sitting around too long without use. Might have to get woo wee and hook them up to this spare parasound a51 lying around.

God, that would be pretty horrible, getting the headphone first and having no way to power it... went through something similar this Christmas when I got a TH600 and didn't have my 3.5mm adapter anymore. 

post #1960 of 5140
Quote:
Originally Posted by takato14 View Post
 

God, that would be pretty horrible, getting the headphone first and having no way to power it... went through something similar this Christmas when I got a TH600 and didn't have my 3.5mm adapter anymore. 

+2. Tell me about it. I took delivery of a KGSSHV and realized I have no interconnects from my DAC to the amp. Cooling my heels for about two weeks until my cable is sent.:mad:

post #1961 of 5140
 

 

For example, here's a McIntosh MC275 power amplifier:

And here's a Hyperion HT-88 power amplifier:

 

 

Those wide deviations from flat frequency response of tube amps come from interactions of their output transformer / output stage / amount of negative feedback employed with the impedance variations in speakers.   These particular curves look like the kind of "simulated 3-way speaker load" curves that Stereophile runs.  Depending on the design, one tube amp will have greater or lesser "sensitivty" to speaker impedance than others.  It mostly comes down to Ohms-law kind of interaction between the source impedance of the tube amp and the impedance curve of the speaker.  Speakers have crossovers,  lots of drivers and so on, their impedance-vs-frequency curves can be pretty hairy.  And remember impedance is a vector quantity, not scalar....

 

Solid state amps do not exhibit nearly as much of this interaction, mostly because their output source impedance can be REALLY low.

 

With a HEADPHONE AMP designed to drive electrostatic headphones I doubt you'd see much variance of output vs. frequency.  Headphones of all types - including electrostatic- don't have anywhere near the impedance excursions that speakers exhibit.  So "tube sound" in an electrostatic headphone amplifier is more likely a result of harmonic distortion "flavor" than of frequency response variance.  All amplifiers distort, and tube amps tend to have a lower amount of high-order harmonics in their distortion products than solid state amps, many people attribute the 
tube sound" in part to this fact.

 

By the way, using a given set of speakers with a given tube amp can end up with less than great sound, for reasons noted above. The resulting frequency response might be pretty funky, matching speaker to amp can be hit-or-miss.  But I also heard a pairing which made the speakers sound GREAT>  unexpectedly so. Kind of a roundabout way to add an EQ curve to your playback chain, but the frequency-response artifact introduced by some tube amps can compliment certain speakers.  I put a pair of little Polk RT25i on a budget Audioromy FU29 tube amp and I could not believe how great it sounded.  The Audioromy FU-29 is a pretty decent low-cost amp, about 25 class-A watts per channel, and the RT25i's  are known to be great little budget  speakers but the combination really sounded so much better than I expected that I had to have some musician friends come over to make sure I wasn't imagining things or having a flashback to the 1960's.  They also agreed that the sound was pretty wonderful on the RT25i's with the tube amp, except the bass - already pretty light from the Polk's 5-inch woofers - was really kind of "mellowed out" with the tube amp, and not very "tight."  It didn't sound wooly or flabby, just lacked much punch below 60 Hz and had a little extra warmth around 200 Hz.  Still the mids and treble were just wonderful.  So, "tube magic" isn't about how inherently GOOD a tube amp is, it's more about how nicely it can WORK with the right speakers. 

post #1962 of 5140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashem View Post

Just got noticed my sr009 shipped from japan. A lot faster than I originally thought would happen. Bhse on order. Need to get an amp ASAP. Don't want these sr009 sitting around too long without use. Might have to get woo wee and hook them up to this spare parasound a51 lying around.


How long it took ?
post #1963 of 5140
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearded man View Post


How long it took ?

 

Ordered on 3/31 as I knew they suddenly got stock.  SR009 went out of 4/4.  But I think times are increasing as we speak.  I think up to 2-3 weeks, but my guess is it will go back to months in a couple of weeks.

post #1964 of 5140
Quote:
Originally Posted by takato14 View Post
 

God, that would be pretty horrible, getting the headphone first and having no way to power it... went through something similar this Christmas when I got a TH600 and didn't have my 3.5mm adapter anymore. 

 

Tell me about it.  I think I have KGSSHV lined up (cough S).  Got a great offer from Darin to test out that new Vostok.  Looking into it now.  Waiting on the upgrade kit for Perfect Wave DAC to Direct Stream.  Just starting my wait on the BHSE unless someone backs out and Justin blesses me with one.  All in all a lot of waiting.

post #1965 of 5140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crashem View Post

Ordered on 3/31 as I knew they suddenly got stock.  SR009 went out of 4/4.  But I think times are increasing as we speak.  I think up to 2-3 weeks, but my guess is it will go back to months in a couple of weeks.


Very fast.Some members say they had to wait 3 or 4 months.
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