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The Stax Thread III - Page 128

post #1906 of 2948

If loaded slew rate at 20khz limits the output voltage, the amplifier is poorly defined. A lot of the discussion points that have come up recently have been fairly binary issues (it either is slew rate limited, or it isn't... it either does have enough vrms to get desired SPL, or it doesn't... etc). Any amplifier that's not a straight up bad design has enough slew rate, and has enough vrms. Without a doubt, all the amps with a good reputation like BHSE, LL, WES, etc. are going to have enough slew rate and enough voltage swing.

 

So, at that point you can look right past those numbers, because they quite literally don't matter given that there is enough (that is, when comparison shopping, if you came across an amp that said 100vp-p, you should run away from it. But if you are comparing amps with 800vp-p and 1200vp-p, the difference is completely irrelevant and you should treat them both as "yes, has enough voltage"). What then starts to matter is things like harmonic distortion and intermodulation distortion. These sorts of things will be affected by a load, and therefore different electrostatic transducers might affect an amp differently. A BHSE has feedback so headphones barely affect the output, but with something like the Wes the load could affect the output quite a bit.


Edited by dude_500 - 4/1/14 at 9:12am
post #1907 of 2948
Quote:
Originally Posted by glorkaglickflic View Post
 

Is there anyone that can give a full description of the Airbow SC21?  It would be helpful if there could be a comparison to the Stax SR507.  I've read that the SC21 rivals the Stax 009 but I'm very skeptical of this claim.  Its very rare to get even a small amount of information about the Airbow except some blurb in Japanese from the manufacturer.  If this post belongs in the Stax forums, let me know.


I have the Airbow SC-11 and compared it to the Lambda SR-407. The Airbow sounds in my ears differrent to the SR-407. It has less bass extension (more neutral) and have more transparency like the SR-407. But the sound of the Airbow SC-11 is very technical like the new Lambda SR-x07 series and the SR-009. I doesn´t like this technical sound of the new stax models and prefer the older models in every way.


Edited by nemomec - 4/1/14 at 10:07am
post #1908 of 2948
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post
 

Defqon is banned?!!!!!!?

What the ****. Did he even DO anything?

post #1909 of 2948

Maybe it's april fools :o

post #1910 of 2948
Quote:
Originally Posted by takato14 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post
 

Defqon is banned?!!!!!!?

What the ****. Did he even DO anything?

Well... I know he has been warned a number of times by admins. Most likely due to bad attitude or something along those lines.

post #1911 of 2948
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post
 

Well... I know he has been warned a number of times by admins. Most likely due to bad attitude or something along those lines.


I'm under the impression that he likes to get into arguments...

post #1912 of 2948

How about a trip down memory lane?

 

I used to have an SR-3 (you never forget your first stax).

If I wanted to pick an old retro headset, how would you compare the sound of the SR-3 versus the SR-5 headphone?

I'll be running my SRD-7 from the output of a Kenwood car stereo (see sig)

post #1913 of 2948

The SR-3 iirc, was much more limited in the frequency extremes compared to the SR-5, but had really nice mids. The SR-5 is a much more aggressive sounding headphone, mainly due to the lack of frequency rolloff, but have a similar sort of sound because they are the same headphone but with different drivers. I love my SR-5, it was my first forray into the world of electrostatic headphones :)

post #1914 of 2948
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1rrah View Post
 

 

I can't speak towards comparing the two amps but I've read a lot from some pretty damned on-top-of-it Stax aficionados and from what I've read, the SRM-323S is considered by many to be one of the best (if not the best, considering the money) Stax amps currently available ... also, one of the most powerful.

 

You could probably expect a slightly more detailed image with the SRM-323S ... I use one currently (with 404LE's and Koss 950's) and love it. Had a SRM-T1 before and the 323S blows it away (for my preferences, anyway) ...

Hi S1rrah,

 

Thanks for the reply. I'm surprised that the SRM-323S is rated so highly compared to the vacuum tube equipped SRM-T1 and the SRM-006TS costs about £300 more than the SRM-323S. Does the SRM-T1 produce a warmer sound?

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Martyn

post #1915 of 2948

"for my preferences, anyway" :D

I'm also a solid-state taliban, I can understand his rating.


Ali

post #1916 of 2948
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyn73 View Post
 

Hi S1rrah,

 

Thanks for the reply. I'm surprised that the SRM-323S is rated so highly compared to the vacuum tube equipped SRM-T1 and the SRM-006TS costs about £300 more than the SRM-323S. Does the SRM-T1 produce a warmer sound?

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Martyn

The T1 sound like a tube amp to my understanding, so yes it's warmer. That's also my impression, though the T1 isn't overly warm or anything. I think the general consensus is that it tend to pair well with many lambda models as it has enough power and many of the lambdas are also fairly bright, for some of them 'etched' in the treble.

post #1917 of 2948
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyn73 View Post
 

Hi S1rrah,

 

Thanks for the reply. I'm surprised that the SRM-323S is rated so highly compared to the vacuum tube equipped SRM-T1 and the SRM-006TS costs about £300 more than the SRM-323S. Does the SRM-T1 produce a warmer sound?

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Martyn

 

I'm no stat aficionado but it seems to me that the tubed Stax amps are less recommended for Omegas becuase they don't have as much max voltage swing and current compared to the better solid state offerings.  The Lambdas and 009's are less demanding and can make more sense to pair with the tube amps, sort of like deficiencies of one can help mask faults of the other with earspeaker and amp which results in pleasing sound.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/582518/electrostatic-amplifiers-voltage-ratings


Edited by Mr.Sneis - 4/2/14 at 1:44pm
post #1918 of 2948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Sneis View PostI'm no stat aficionado but it seems to me that the tubed Stax amps are less recommended for Omegas becuase they don't have as much max voltage swing and current compared to the better solid state offerings.  The Lambdas and 009's are less demanding and can make more sense to pair with the tube amps, sort of like deficiencies of one can help mask faults of the other with earspeaker and amp which results in pleasing sound.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/582518/electrostatic-amplifiers-voltage-ratings

But according to that exact thread the T1 and its variants offer the same voltage swing as the KGSS, 717, 323S, et al.

 

I would not be surprised if the Stax tube amplifiers had audible nonlinear (or even linear) distortion figures even playing test signals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude_500 View PostSo, at that point you can look right past those numbers, because they quite literally don't matter given that there is enough (that is, when comparison shopping, if you came across an amp that said 100vp-p, you should run away from it. But if you are comparing amps with 800vp-p and 1200vp-p, the difference is completely irrelevant and you should treat them both as "yes, has enough voltage"). What then starts to matter is things like harmonic distortion and intermodulation distortion. These sorts of things will be affected by a load, and therefore different electrostatic transducers might affect an amp differently. A BHSE has feedback so headphones barely affect the output, but with something like the Wes the load could affect the output quite a bit.

Thanks, I think this points us to the right questions. Would the introduction of nonlinear distortion products be dependent upon the amplifier's failure to provide undistorted voltage at the required output levels? I am unsure how this would occur in practice.

post #1919 of 2948
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3X0 View Post
 

Thanks, I think this points us to the right questions. Would the introduction of nonlinear distortion products be dependent upon the amplifier's failure to provide undistorted voltage at the required output levels? I am unsure how this would occur in practice.

 

Yes, an amplifier will get more and more distortion as it gets closer to railing output. So an amplifier running with +-300V rails with a 500Vp-p output will have more distortion than the same amplifier running with +-400V rails with a 500Vp-p output. But as a result, most designs are just going to run at the maximum reasonable voltage for that topology, so this ultimately just becomes a distortion figure at a desired level. 

 

In essence, just because an amplifier has high voltage rails doesn't mean it has less distortion than an amplifier with lower rails. For instance, a Woo WES has more voltage overhead (I think +-600v rails) than a Blue Hawaii, but a Blue Hawaii has WAY less distortion than a WES just because of its topology. 

 

So in conclusion, anyone who says "that amp has more voltage overhead so it'll have less distortion" doesn't know what they're talking about. The ONLY time this is valid is if topologies are identical i.e. person x made a Blue Hawaii with +-400v rails and said it has less distortion than someone else's identically constructed Blue Hawaii who used +-300v rails.

post #1920 of 2948
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyn73 View Post
 

Hi S1rrah,

 

Thanks for the reply. I'm surprised that the SRM-323S is rated so highly compared to the vacuum tube equipped SRM-T1 and the SRM-006TS costs about £300 more than the SRM-323S. Does the SRM-T1 produce a warmer sound?

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Martyn

 

I found the T1 to be a bit "dull" sounding ... not very dynamic .. but then again, I had the SRM-T1W ... and so it might differ from the regular T1.

 

And re the current offerings ...

 

This is said very loosely but I've read around a bit that the Stax amp(s) that use the ECC99 tubes, such as the SRM-600LE or other amps that typically use 6FQ7(6CG7) tubes but have been modified to use the ECC99 tubes are much better than the amps that, by default use the 6FQ7(6CG7) tubes such as the STAX SRM-007tII and/or the STAX SRM-006tS ...

 

Something about the 6FQ7 tubes not being well matched to the power being put through them (more technical, experienced Stax folk can clarify this maybe) ... and that the ECC99 tubes are much more capable in this regard and less subject to failure down the line...

 

Otherwise, I find the clarity of the 323S to be quite lovely with both the Koss 950's and the 404LE's ... the T1 was okay but just didn't "sing" like the 323S ... seemed lifeless and with no real imaging/dynamics ... 

 

Personally, I'd love to have a SRM-600LE ... but just super pleased with the 323S at the moment ... and if I upgrade, I'll most likely go big and with some sort of KGSS or Blue Hawaii variant ...

 

Best...

Joel

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