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Do audiophiles "like" music? - Page 23  

post #331 of 345

I'm not arguing that tubes are bad amplifying devices, I wouldn't own a tube headphone amp if I thought so. There is just no denying that tube amps color the sound much more audibly than solid state amps do.

post #332 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post
 

I'm not arguing that tubes are bad amplifying devices, I wouldn't own a tube headphone amp if I thought so. There is just no denying that tube amps color the sound much more audibly than solid state amps do.

 

As I said earlier, try building an amplifier with only one transistor and see how much "colour" you get!

 

You won't like it.

post #333 of 345
I think the last couple of pages answer the thread question perfectly. Audiophiles always claim to like music, but halfway through the talk always switches to equipment. =P
post #334 of 345

You're still trying to make me say something I didn't. I couldn't care less about an amp with 1 transistor, who would even bother? The point is to compare a proper tube amp design vs a proper solid state amp design.

 

This whole argument is pretty stupid. That's like saying "eat only the flour without anything else and it'll taste worse than the whole pizza". At the end of the day the most basic tube amp with only 1 tube is going to sound pretty crappy as well.


Edited by elmoe - 3/1/14 at 9:35am
post #335 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurochin View Post

I think the last couple of pages answer the thread question perfectly. Audiophiles always claim to like music, but halfway through the talk always switches to equipment. =P

 

Still spent more time today playing my bass guitar and listening to music than I did posting in this thread though =P

post #336 of 345
I love music, it is beautiful. Just imagine life without music, gosh. Never fails to make me feel great after a stressful day.

Anyway, What makes a person an audiophile? Having thousands of dollars worth of audio equipment? Having extensive audio knowledge? Or being osessed over the need to listen to perfect-sounding music?
post #337 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post
 

You're still trying to make me say something I didn't. I couldn't care less about an amp with 1 transistor, who would even bother? The point is to compare a proper tube amp design vs a proper solid state amp design.

 

This whole argument is pretty stupid. That's like saying "eat only the flour without anything else and it'll taste worse than the whole pizza". At the end of the day the most basic tube amp with only 1 tube is going to sound pretty crappy as well.

 

Obviously you've:

A.  drank the audiophile Kool-Aid

and

B.  you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Actually a pre-amp with one tube can sound pretty outstanding.......................

The Counterpoint SA-5.1

The Counterpoint SA-3.1

The Counterpoint SA-7.1

 

I've heard simple transistor line stages, they sound pretty dark and muffled.

 

And that's my last post on this topic!

post #338 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post
 

 

Obviously you've:

A.  drank the audiophile Kool-Aid

and

B.  you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Actually a pre-amp with one tube can sound pretty outstanding.......................

The Counterpoint SA-5.1

The Counterpoint SA-3.1

The Counterpoint SA-7.1

 

I've heard simple transistor line stages, they sound pretty dark and muffled.

 

And that's my last post on this topic!

 

Yeah, when paired up in the same casing with a power amp with 2 tubes per channel, I'm sure it sounds great! :rolleyes:

 

audiophile Kool-Aid indeed.

post #339 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by kurochin View Post

I think the last couple of pages answer the thread question perfectly. Audiophiles always claim to like music, but halfway through the talk always switches to equipment. =P

 

If that fits your agenda, then, OK.

post #340 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAttorney View Post
 

The whole point of the BHSE hybrid design is that the tubes specifically do NOT colour the sound.

 

I don't know enough about amp design to explain why, but that's what some amp designers have claimed.

 

Having said that, I have noticed that different tubes do affect the BHSE's sound - but  not from the cliched "tube warmth" point of view.

 

Anyway, the notion that tube amps inevitably colour the sound is somewhat outdated. Some old classic designs did have enhanced "warmth" etc, but I've heard a number of modern tube and transister designs where their respective strengths and weaknesses could not be described in such broad colouration terms.

 

FWIW, my personal recipe for long term musical satisfaction from variable quality recordings is to have a system that is overall ever so slightly the warm side of neutral.

 

I do like this post, and I do agree with it!

And I don't know enough about law to argue about law with this poster.

However, I may have a little bit of experience in analog circuit design.

Which explains why I worked as an analog signal system designer for about a year.

post #341 of 345

And yet through your whole tubes don't color the sound argument, you still use NOS tubes on your La Figaro 336C :)

 

If tubes are so neutral anyway, why bother paying for NOS?

post #342 of 345

Okay gentlemen this whole tube discussion is getting just a little tiresome. The real question for me with respect to tubes is:

 

Does equipment using tubes offer enough of a sonic improvement over similar solid state equipment to justify the added headache involved in dealing with tubes?

 

For me, at least, the answer is a resounding NO.

 

But for many audiophiles, especially those audiophiles who love to tweak and constantly adjust their equipment, tubes are like manna from heaven. Kind of similar to playing vinyl rather than switching over to a computer based streaming system.

 

That's why I lost my audiophile status the moment I bought my first Squeezebox since playing music using a Squeezebox does not involve any tweaking - no record cleaning, no VTA adjustment, no stylus cleaning. And even in the world of computer based audio the true audiophile finds ways to make things complicated, as in using a Mac, which requires one to exit out of iTunes every time a files with different sample frequencies are played.

 

So audiophiles may or may not like music but they sure do love to tinker.

post #343 of 345

I just find it interesting that an electrical engineer would argue that solid state amps are less neutral than tube amps, while at the same time seemingly tube rolls. And also owns a pair of interconnects that cost more than his tube amp. Generally the engineers on these forums tend to have the complete opposite opinion on tubes (much like yours, ralphp) and buy their cables from monoprice, so I was curious to see what the logic was behind that train of thought. Still waiting on that one, and likely will be waiting a long time :wink:

post #344 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post

I just find it interesting that an electrical engineer would argue that solid state amps are less neutral than tube amps, while at the same time seemingly tube rolls. And also owns a pair of interconnects that cost more than his tube amp. Generally the engineers on these forums tend to have the complete opposite opinion on tubes (much like yours, ralphp) and buy their cables from monoprice, so I was curious to see what the logic was behind that train of thought. Still waiting on that one, and likely will be waiting a long time wink.gif

Yes, I tube roll.
I like the coloration.
Where's the contradiction? I'll give you hint: in your mind.
You're going to have to explain to me why an engineer would design a tube amp......who do you think designs them?
The tooth fairy?
Yes, the tooth fairy.
I guess the guy who designs for Conrad-Johnson or Audio Research or Sonic Frontiers or any of these other audio companies that uses tubes are complete jackasses
Next time I see the guy who used to design for Sonic frontiers I'll give him your message.
You obviously don't know how to read and know absolutely nothing about electronic design.
post #345 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmoe View Post
 

I'm not arguing that tubes are bad amplifying devices, I wouldn't own a tube headphone amp if I thought so. There is just no denying that tube amps color the sound much more audibly than solid state amps do.


Normally I don't reply to this kind of comment, but it's really makes no sense to me.  Both tube amps AND solid state amps can color the sound, that's the choice of the designer/manufacture what they want out of the amp. So saying that tube amps color the sound more is just dumb. The question is, which type of amp can get you the closest to neutral. Then you have to define what neutral is. That in itself it subjective. What you find neutral, someone may find cold or warm. For me the closest amp I've heard to neutral is the BHSE, which is a hybrid amp. But that's just my opinion, someone else may disagree by saying it's warm or cold - so how can you argue that?

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