or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Do audiophiles "like" music?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Do audiophiles "like" music? - Page 18  

post #256 of 345

I'm not an audiophile, (don;t have the money to be a high-end one) I'm kind of new to this, but to answer your question: I bought my first head-fi-worthy headphones (the HD650) about 2 years ago. By then I already had over 1500 cds of classical music in my collection and a good amount of other genres especially progressive rock and metal. And I had tv speakers as my speakers.... So it started with the MUSIC and it still is about the music. 

 

Now I have a somewhat more decent pair of B&Ws 683 as my speakers (more for tv really). I rarely hear music in loudspeakers at home. I use the sorry speakers in my car. So you can see it's about the music, not about the sound quality. With headphones, by far my preferred form of listening to music, of course I want to get better and better sound. Once I got my Sennheisers HD380 I started discovering there was a lot of aural information I was missing... Then I started trying to find the perfect sounding headphone for MY tastes and now one day I want to hear other options... But it's still all about the music. Norah Jones (sorry, I don't like that type of music very much) will not appeal to me even if it wins recording of the millennium in all galactic systems. I will keep my sorry-sounding recording of Beethoven's 9th conducted by Furtwangler in EMI till I die.

 

BONUS QUESTION - Is there one album that you would willingly sacrifice your entire system for if the alternative was never listening to that album again?  If so what is it?

 

No, not one SINGLE album. Even the most expensive set I have (Solti's Wagner Ring) can still be re-purchased. Of course if they tell me I have to give up my headphones or I'll lose the chance to listen to it forever and ever, there I will go back to some crappy Sony 30$ cans... 

post #257 of 345

Brahms Violin Concerto, D-Major, op.77,

Henryk Szeryng violin,

Antal Dorati, London Symphony Orchestra

rec. July 18th, 1962, Mercury Living Presence orig. SR#90308.

I have a CD edition 434 318-2

 

This recording is (for my preference) the ultimate performance of this work.

I don't play any instrument myself but just for the heck of it I got the sheets and tried to follow the music, I didn't get very far...

The technical challenges of the score are outstanding. The tricky point is that you hear this in a lot of recordings. Kremer, Hahn, Faust et al. indeed all very skilled and in control, technical masters but for me there is no inner drive, too much perfection.

 

I have seen it performed live last year and it was not bad (Chr.Tetzlaff, A. Nelson, NY Philharmonic, Avery Fisher Hall).

 

The above '62 recording captures Szeryng and the orchestra in a once in lifetime kind of synergy.

He plays with wreck less abandon, completely fearless, it seems - and he succeeds.

You get completely swapped away by the energy of the music and forget about the technical aspects. What a performance !

 

I have another of his recordings of the same concert (Haitink, Royal Concergebouw Orchestra Amsterdam, 1976, Newton classics). Not bad either but no comparison to the Dorati/L.S.O recording.

 

And yes, it does sound great on a nice system that is able to realistically reproduce the dynamics of such a recording.

Would I give away my system or not listening to this recording ever again ? No ... but it is the toughest "no" ;).

post #258 of 345

This similar version of this question is often asked about backpacking: are you here to focus on the equipment or the great outdoors?

 

And the implication is the same: it's somehow "good" to focus on the outdoors, and "bad" to focus on the equipment. But that implication is a mistake.

 

The outdoors/music are wonderful. But the equipment/machines that allows you to enjoy them are wonderful too. It's great to see the ingenuity of man's mind at work. There is no shame in enjoying the equipment while you are enjoying the outdoors/music.

 

In fact, in principle, there is no shame in enjoying the equipment - studying it, making it, fixing and reselling it, learning more about, trying out new models - more than the original activity. Nothing wrong with that at all. Rare, but not wrong.

post #259 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by tw9000 View Post
 

This similar version of this question is often asked about backpacking: are you here to focus on the equipment or the great outdoors?

 

And the implication is the same: it's somehow "good" to focus on the outdoors, and "bad" to focus on the equipment. But that implication is a mistake.

 

The outdoors/music are wonderful. But the equipment/machines that allows you to enjoy them are wonderful too. It's great to see the ingenuity of man's mind at work. There is no shame in enjoying the equipment while you are enjoying the outdoors/music.

 

In fact, in principle, there is no shame in enjoying the equipment - studying it, making it, fixing and reselling it, learning more about, trying out new models - more than the original activity. Nothing wrong with that at all. Rare, but not wrong.

 

Thanks!

As a great poet has said "It ain't no sin to be glad you're alive"!

post #260 of 345

Here is an experiment...cup both your ears with each hand like you want to improve your hearing...hear that.

 

I am starting to believe some audiophiles actually listen to live music this way...there is so much...air...and...brightness.

 

Now remove your hands...and the sound gets...darker...with sounds emerging from total blackness.

 

I think some audiophiles never got over the awesomeness of CDs that do not hiss like tapes and records do...boost the treble....see, no hiss.

 

But its weird, because they don't accept the fact that dollars per watt has dropped significantly since the 70s/80s and wont accept true bass precision and power...which was why early recordings had light bass...to preserve the flea watts that people could afford back then.

 

I was told by science that I enjoyed the beating heart of my mother when I was in her tummy...very warm indeed - which one need not look further to explain Beats by Dr. Dre.

 

You can't blame teenagers for their raging hormones...they're innocent...audiophiles are guilty of snobbery to the maximum.

post #261 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post
 

Here is an experiment...cup both your ears with each hand like you want to improve your hearing...hear that.

 

I am starting to believe some audiophiles actually listen to live music this way...there is so much...air...and...brightness.

 

Now remove your hands...and the sound gets...darker...with sounds emerging from total blackness.

 

I think some audiophiles never got over the awesomeness of CDs that do not hiss like tapes and records do...boost the treble....see, no hiss.

 

But its weird, because they don't accept the fact that dollars per watt has dropped significantly since the 70s/80s and wont accept true bass precision and power...which was why early recordings had light bass...to preserve the flea watts that people could afford back then.

 

I was told by science that I enjoyed the beating heart of my mother when I was in her tummy...very warm indeed - which one need not look further to explain Beats by Dr. Dre.

 

You can't blame teenagers for their raging hormones...they're innocent...audiophiles are guilty of snobbery to the maximum.

 

It's been many years since I was a teenager.

How do I turn off my raging hormones?

post #262 of 345

Sometimes you just can't...welcome to my world.  :beerchug:

post #263 of 345

To expand further...so we grew up with the accessible technology of reproducing bass - even in a low income environment...which the previous generation did not (not as common).  We now make money...you can't tell us what we enjoy is in fact rubbish - what we grew up to...our precious memories are not worth less than yours .  The classics were the beatles...now I'm old school according to the millennials.

 

Old Skool - is the new term for Classics.  2 unlimited to 2 pac is the new classic...if you can't recreate the synth bass as accurately as possible - you are far from the artists intent.  You are not recreating classic hits properly - now I make money, this is not acceptable and not hi-fidelity.

 

The previous generations first exposure to hiss-less CD rendered many of todays audiophiles "top-down".  Today's new audiophiles and tommorrows is going to be "bottoms up" - heh, that sounds cooler right.

 

You can get rid of me, but many more will take my place...in due time the older generation will cease to exist and there will be us in power and in control...the world will not be doomed.  We are coming, the inevitable will occur.  We are more tolerant, we are more open minded.

 

Yes oldies...time does fly doesn't it.

 

Deal with it.


Edited by SP Wild - 1/30/14 at 5:24pm
post #264 of 345
Quote:

Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post

 

  We are more tolerant, we are more open minded.

 

Really?

post #265 of 345

I have been thinking about this for a while. I am a bit conflicted. 

 

I started out on this doomed journey into the world of audio when I realised I couldn't handle the noise from the bus going to and from work every day. I bought an iPod. It sucked. The recordings I liked would produce a lot of static and buzz. This was ... 12 years ago? I think? It would be about that. Trying to get my music to play back in a pure manner started me researching into portable daps and headphones. It was then I realised I didn't have a nice home system. I had a PC with a set of 2.1 Creative pc speakers. I didn't even have headphones and because of living with old people I could never get a pair of decent speakers. So headphones it was.

 

I have always loved music. Ever since I was in the womb I suspect.  I truly don't think any music is boring, my tastes range from Classical which I don't know that I could live without to pop to prog rock to extreme death metal to techno and house music and even hip hop. Blues. I could listen to music on a crappy radio and be happy. Or so I thought.

 

I started thinking about this thread recently when the head band on my T1s was broken by a friend being an absent minded clutz and sitting on them after he put them on my seat. They were completely warped even the gimble was warped. The speaker housings and the speakers were fine but everything else was cactus. I managed to kind of get them in workable shape but truthfully they will never be the same without a new headband. So I made inquiries. $500 it was going to cost me all up and months in the shop most likely to fix. What I felt was.... relief. I wasn't even angry at my friend. I felt nothing when I saw them mangled except this weird feeling like sweet now I can buy new headphones!

 

Now if I am brutally honest with myself I don't know. I know that I have grown restless with all the stuff I have around and kinda unhappy. There's thousands of dollars worth of high quality audio gear in my possession now. It's built up over years. Sometimes I think I get too caught up in wondering what a new headphone would sound like. Or a new amp. Or DAC. 

 

The truth is for me anyway I think it stopped being all about music a while ago and I started falling in love with the gear and that's why I am unhappy with it all now. Like I said I have been thinking about this for a while and I think the best thing for me would be to sell all of my gear and just stick with cheap stuff that played music that I love.

 

The truth is it's all a bit of a lie. If you don't like the music you are listening to out of one set of gear but love it out of another it isn't about the music any more is it? The essence of the music doesn't change. The gear does though. People make up all sorts of stuff about how the bass is better on one thing or the highs are worse on this etc.. and in some cases this might be true from one point of view but in most cases it's simply just different. It's still the same damn music though. 

 

Kinda seems like nonsense to me when I really boil it all down and look at it from a pure point of view. 

 

I think it might be time to revisit the Opera House in Sydney and listen to what real music sounds like. Or go to a concert where real musicians are playing. That's an experience I could get behind. I am sure that will be a realistic reproduction of music. I'm sure the bass will be perfect. The mids sublime. The highs effervescent.

 

As for the album thing my gear would be in the trash if I was given that kind of ultimatum, or some fool would be getting his or her comeuppance for trying to make me make such a decision.

 

It's nice to regain a bit of perspective.

 

edit: Saying all that the Audeze LCD-X look really nice :)


Edited by Timmyw - 1/31/14 at 1:02am
post #266 of 345

Yes it is good for audiophiles to regain a bit of perspective - and this thread has been good for helping achieve that.

 

But to echo some of the earlier posts, there is no black and white answer to this. It's very easy, but fruitless, to try and pigeonhole people into caricatures.

In practice, everyone has a varying proportion of the good and bad characteristics that make up an audiophile and non-audiophile.

 

It is perfectly possible to love music, love gear, love collecting stuff, love messing around in the man cave - all at the same time.

Having a regular perspective check is a good way to not let any one aspect get out of control.

A while back, when I sold off my vinyl collection, I realised that I had several LPs that I had not played in years (some never played). So one can go too far on "it's all about the music".

 

Edit: Timmyw, it's a shame you've fallen out of love with your system. I don't know what the solution is, but going to some live concerts seems like a good start.


Edited by TheAttorney - 1/31/14 at 3:57am
post #267 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAttorney View Post

 

Edit: Timmyw, it's a shame you've fallen out of love with your system. I don't know what the solution is, but going to some live concerts seems like a good start.

With the gear sure. But not with the music I bought all this gear to listen to :). The gear is just a means to an end which is what it should always have been. 

 

I don't think it's a shame, I think it's more a reawakening to what's really important. I read a lot of comments calling this a hobby. Music is not a hobby for me at all, it's more an essential and irremovable piece of my life. I think perhaps I had started to treat it as one. 

 

Who knew getting a really expensive piece of kit pulverized would be a good thing? 

post #268 of 345

I wonder if there ever has been someone who actually started loving equipment before the music itself. No matter how much you can love hifi equipment, it's still useless and dead without music playing through it. I don't think it possible that someone said "Oh how beautiful that amplifier and those speakers are! I'm going to research about them and see what they can do!" Everyone started loving music, in higher or lower degrees, good or bad, but this was the starting point. That some eventually paid more attention to the sonic aspects than the melodies/harmonies themselves is just a consequence of an initial love for music paired with the discovery of ways of enjoying it in a better way. 

post #269 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAttorney View Post
 

 

Really?

 

I stand corrected...I looked in the mirror and realised that I am not a teenager anymore.  I am actually part of the problem and should have ceased to exist years ago.  So to amend my statement:

 

You can get rid of me, but many more teenagers will eventually take my place...in due time my generation will cease to exist and they will be in power, they will be in control...the world will not be doomed.  They are coming, the inevitable will occur.  They are more tolerant, they are more open minded.

 

What got me worked up is this article in Inner Fidelity:    

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/ces-2014-wrap-end-one-story-and-beginning-another

 

I like the work Tyll does and we owe him so much for his research...I certainly agree with his HRTF model far more than any corporate sponsored one.  But he has it plain wrong in this article. 

 

Now I don't watch UFC much anymore because it is so childs play, now that it is watered down from its roots - but when I do, it is to perv at Rhonda Rousey.  To my surprise one day, I see a fighter don on headphones around his neck after winning a match - I think:

 

"This guy has lost the plot, why would you put on headphones for styling purposes after winning a match". 

 

Then I realise...all the winners do the same.  I look carefully...these look like the headphones my apprentice was so enthusiastic about the other day:

 

"Sam, man.  You gotta check out these headphones - these are the best." he says.

 

"I'm not interested."  I replied, after looking at them and recognising the Beats logo and knowing about their awful reputation at head-fi.

 

"C'mon, just try them just this once" he pleads, he was always seeking for my approval.

 

What the hey, I figured, might as well find out if the anti-hype was true.  And yes - it was true indeed, they were all bass and very dark - the bass was indistinct, but it was deep bass...I know this is why he loves them...I was young once.

 

"Yeah, they sound good". I replied - knowing how little apprentices earn for their hard labour, there was not going to be any other answer no matter how bad I felt they were.

 

"How about that bass!"

 

"Yeah, its there" I replied, trying to appear enthusiastic.  He was happy with my approval. "C'mon lets get back to work".  And that was the only time we spoke of headphones.

 

Yes.  Indeed, these winning fighters are all wearing beats.  And it was at that moment I realised that Dr. Dre is in fact, a genius - for he had to be in order to think so far outside the square.  Now if anybody is to believe that Dr. Dre succeeded purely via his reputation alone needs to think twice.  Those headphones had an unusual high amount of a very specific deep bass resonance - and he knew, it was this specific bass quality that he needed for the youth to respond.

 

Instead of hating on Dr. Dre, which would prove him right - haters gonna hate.  We ought to be most gratuitous to him for expanding the headphone market in a manner so completely that no entity has ever managed before and as a prediction will never manage to, ever again.

 

Whatever plans the industry might have, for converting the new install base into connoisseurs of headphones - I am not sure.  But I will say this:

 

Its the beat of the heart.

post #270 of 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by SP Wild View Post
 

 

 

 

Instead of hating on Dr. Dre, which would prove him right - haters gonna hate.  We ought to be most gratuitous to him for expanding the headphone market in a manner so completely that no entity has ever managed before and as a prediction will never manage to, ever again.

 

Whatever plans the industry might have, for converting the new install base into connoisseurs of headphones - I am not sure.  But I will say this:

 

Its the beat of the heart.

Well, I disagree pretty strongly with this. I don't hate the developers of those headphones. Not by a long shot, but I will never be in any kind of gratitude to them for producing over-hyped overpriced fashion accessories. If someone wants them... go for it. But I have heard these and I hate them. They sounded like pure rubbish to me. You said it yourself, they sounded terrible.

 

The only thing Dre wanted to do is make money for HIMSELF and you're right he's a marketing genius, along with everyone else that went into making those things. Those guys must have made a fortune out of those headphones. I bet they sponsored those fighters to do exactly what you saw them do. "You can have a free pair of these and we'll sponsor you if when you win and only if you win you go and immediately put them around your neck".

 

But the only thing he (and the other people responsible for the development of these headphones) did in my opinion is help to drive the price of headphones up. No way am I going to appreciative of that. If anything the price of these things should be coming down. They all use technology and production techniques that has been around for donkeys years. With some very notable exceptions. This is one of the only industries where the price of items goes up over time given the same tech. Everywhere else things get cheaper for myriad reasons. Here things get dearer, and dearer. This trend is just going to keep going.

 

Why is this? Well, I think Tyll's article and the ones linked to it go a very long way to explaining it very accurately. It's all about marketing and demographics. And most importantly of all..... money.

 

At the end of the day manufacturers can put what ever price they want on their products. But we are now in the vicinity of mass produced $2k headphones. It's insanity. Two thousand dollars isn't what it used to be, sure. But it's still a fair slab of cash, and yet we see people buying these things in droves. Hell I am thinking about it myself! They sound so good, in fact headphones these days sound better than they every have! (ed: Still not a patch on speakers though ;)) But truth be told I might have more money than sense which is what got me thinking about all this to begin with. 

 

IMHO the way those things sound combined with the cost of them does a disservice to music. If you are going to make expensive headphones, at least make them sound good as well as look good. I think the reason they're called Beats is because that's all you can hear. The beat. That's the genius of it right there. Teenagers with very specifically developing brains hear things differently to everyone else. I'd be willing to bet that studies have been done by Beats into how exactly most teenagers or young people hear music and what drives them to listen to it. I bet my bottom dollar they are more dance oriented. They sound like you're in a night club.

 

I dunno maybe I am old and jaded with materialism. Which, again, I guess is what got me thinking about this thread again hehe.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum
This thread is locked  
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Do audiophiles "like" music?