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Light Harmonic GEEK - Page 8

post #106 of 1367

Its on their FB page: https://www.facebook.com/geekbylhlabs/posts/1419541334941153?comment_id=98876&reply_comment_id=98989&total_comments=6

 


Edited by m-i-c-k-e-y - 10/21/13 at 9:48am
post #107 of 1367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idsynchrono_24 View Post  Oh wow, the Sabre? Source? Is this for all models of GEEK?


I'm actually glad --- regardless of the "sound" of various DAC chips, the advantage that ESS has is that it incorporates the 32-bit volume control on chip --- this is very advantageous for units that use digital volume control, such as the GEEK. I have a Resonessence Labs Concero HP --- it's one of the first units to use the ES9018K2M and I think it sounds glorious. I'm very excited for how the GEEK sounds. I'm sure the PCM1795 sounds great, but the ES9018-2M performs better on paper (all things being equal, they're both ΔΣ modulating chips, so we're not talking about R2R chips) and the extra volume control feature really makes the case for the ES9018-2M.

 

The way Larry Ho designs things is quite impressive as well. He uses a SABRE for one half of the Da Vinci DAC, so I'm sure he knows how to properly implement ESS chips (which is their difficulty --- ESS is notorious for not giving out specs publicly and forces you to either contact them directly or get information from people who have been in contact with them) --- if you read Larry's posts on CA, you'll see that he's quite familiar with the SABRE feature set and how to enable/disable certain features, as well as how to properly design the power source around the chip.

post #108 of 1367

I wanted them to go with the ESS, as I love the ESS9023 in my HifimeDIY. Can't wait!

post #109 of 1367
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post  I wanted them to go with the ESS, as I love the ESS9023 in my HifimeDIY. Can't wait!


Well, the ES9018K2M is definitely better than the ES9023 --- from all indications, the GEEK is very well-designed, so I'm very much looking forward to it as well!

post #110 of 1367
Thanks for the info in regards to the Sabre Tom. Pretty much everything I know about that thing I've learned from a certain member goin by "K" wink.gif

Anyhow, nice to learn a bit more, and yes, Larry seems like the real deal if the RMAF praise is anything to go by. Interesting on the Delta Sigma chip, I think the only experience I've got with that, is in regards to Sharp's AUVI 1-bit tech in their old MD players

I wasn't able to wind up on the $99 or even $139 train since I was skeptical, but now it looks like I might as well preorder at $199 so I can score some semblance of a deal :l
post #111 of 1367

All modern DAC chips are sigma-delta modulating to some degree. Neither the ESS Sabre nor the Advanced Segment design of the PCM1795 is purely sigma-delta, but that's really the only way to "practically" noise-shape in today's era of "higher specs, faster implementation" type of electronic design.

 

Both are great chips, IMHO, but as I mentioned, the Sabre has the advantage with regard to volume control, at the very least.

 

The thin, overly analytical sound that ESS chips have a reputation of having is only an issue if designers don't take the time to properly study the Sabre architecture and figure out how to best implement it. In that sense, TI/Burr-Brown chips are probably easier to "plug and play", though it's never advisable to do that.

 

For the people who want to read Larry's own comments, start from here --- they're pretty revealing.

post #112 of 1367

^ good link

 

seems like they're working on an upgradeable desktop version of the geek

post #113 of 1367

Even more intriguing now, as the only other company I have heard of using the new ES9018Ms is Resonessence.  So far their products have gotten rave reviews.  I still have my regular GEEK coming, but waffling a bit on a higher powered one.  Part of me wants another just to hoard such a good value.  

post #114 of 1367

The Super-Duper GEEK used to be 219$ at kickstarter, now 299$ at http://mustgeekout.com

It's no longer a great deal, considering that NFB-11.32 is available at the same price, but has a lot of advantages:

 

- Full size SABRE32 Reference 32-bit 8-Channel Audio DAC (ES9018) vs SABRE32 Reference Stereo DAC (ES9018K2M)

- 118 dB SNR vs 109dB.

- 5.5 times more powerful amplifier 3.5W/25Ohm vs 1W/16Ohm

- Optical and Coax inputs

- Both 6.5mm and RCA outputs vs 3.5mm-only

- Asynchronous Transfer vs Synchronous (not 100% clear yet).

- Due to its size, it can utilize higher grade full size components and have better noise filtering.

- Doesn't eat laptop's battery

 

http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1132/NFB11.32EN_Specs.htm

 

Sure, the GEEK can be used "on-the-go", but I have 3 different portable USB DACs (E17, HifiMeDIY and ODAC) and I never use them outside home or work. On-the-go I only use smaprthone/DAP/Car stereo - much more convenient then laptop.

 

Why extra 80$ ??? Now that mass-production is guaranteed, should it be cheaper, not more expensive?

If the Super-Duper GEEK will get back to 219$, I will probably buy it, but not at a price of a "grown-up" DAC.

 

P.S. Before the flame war begins, let me clarify:

I do not doubt that the GEEK DAC will sound great and will find its audience, I only post this because of the sudden price hike.

post #115 of 1367
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenF View Post
 

The Super-Duper GEEK used to be 219$ at kickstarter, now 299$ at http://mustgeekout.com

It's no longer a great deal, considering that NFB-11.32 is available at the same price, but has a lot of advantages:

 

- Full size SABRE32 Reference 32-bit 8-Channel Audio DAC (ES9018) vs SABRE32 Reference Stereo DAC (ES9018K2M)

- 118 dB SNR vs 109dB.

- 5.5 times more powerful amplifier 3.5W/25Ohm vs 1W/16Ohm

- Optical and Coax inputs

- Both 6.5mm and RCA outputs vs 3.5mm-only

- Asynchronous Transfer vs Synchronous (not 100% clear yet).

- Due to its size, it can utilize higher grade full size components and have better noise filtering.

- Doesn't eat laptop's battery

 

http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1132/NFB11.32EN_Specs.htm

 

Sure, the GEEK can be used "on-the-go", but I have 3 different portable USB DACs (E17, HifiMeDIY and ODAC) and I never use them outside home or work. On-the-go I only use smaprthone/DAP/Car stereo - much more convenient then laptop.

 

Why extra 80$ ??? Now that mass-production is guaranteed, should it be cheaper, not more expensive?

If the Super-Duper GEEK will get back to 219$, I will probably buy it, but not at a price of a "grown-up" DAC.

 

P.S. Before the flame war begins, let me clarify:

I do not doubt that the GEEK DAC will sound great and will find its audience, I only post this because of the sudden price hike.

 

Not sure if you are trying to troll or not.

 

$299 has been the target retail price all along.  And I think you are missing the boat on what the target market is for the GEEK.

post #116 of 1367
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenF View Post
 

The Super-Duper GEEK used to be 219$ at kickstarter, now 299$ at http://mustgeekout.com

It's no longer a great deal, considering that NFB-11.32 is available at the same price, but has a lot of advantages:

 

- Full size SABRE32 Reference 32-bit 8-Channel Audio DAC (ES9018) vs SABRE32 Reference Stereo DAC (ES9018K2M)

- 118 dB SNR vs 109dB.

- 5.5 times more powerful amplifier 3.5W/25Ohm vs 1W/16Ohm

- Optical and Coax inputs

- Both 6.5mm and RCA outputs vs 3.5mm-only

- Asynchronous Transfer vs Synchronous (not 100% clear yet).

- Due to its size, it can utilize higher grade full size components and have better noise filtering.

- Doesn't eat laptop's battery

 

http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB1132/NFB11.32EN_Specs.htm

 

Sure, the GEEK can be used "on-the-go", but I have 3 different portable USB DACs (E17, HifiMeDIY and ODAC) and I never use them outside home or work. On-the-go I only use smaprthone/DAP/Car stereo - much more convenient then laptop.

 

Why extra 80$ ??? Now that mass-production is guaranteed, should it be cheaper, not more expensive?

If the Super-Duper GEEK will get back to 219$, I will probably buy it, but not at a price of a "grown-up" DAC.

 

P.S. Before the flame war begins, let me clarify:

I do not doubt that the GEEK DAC will sound great and will find its audience, I only post this because of the sudden price hike.

 

$299 was always the price. Kickstarter backers had the opportunity to get the discount.

 

I owned the NFB 11.32, and sold it. I had all the upgraded parts too. It was not that impressive. I actually prefer my HifimeDIY U2 and Lepai amp, and even my U2 and SMSL amp over it. $373 for the 11.32, $90 for the others, and they sound better.

 

I'm intrigued with what the Geek will be like. I have a feeling it will be a better engineered piece of equipment, and it will be very portable. 

post #117 of 1367

SD Geek

$219 -> Kickstarter Price. For 1 month campaign for backers. Did you back the campaign also?

$299 -> Target retail price. They published this since the beginning of the campaign back Aug. 13, 2013

            See homepage of their Kickstarter campagin. I'm sure you did not missed it.

 

I'm confident GEEK will sound amazing (have you seen the measurements?) and a lot of other things.

That is why they overshoot their goal by 10 folds.


Edited by m-i-c-k-e-y - 10/20/13 at 10:26am
post #118 of 1367
Quote:
Originally Posted by FraGGleR View Post
 

 

Not sure if you are trying to troll or not.

 

$299 has been the target retail price all along.  And I think you are missing the boat on what the target market is for the GEEK.

 

Haven't you read the P.S. ?
It's still in the pre-order phase - they just moved it out of KickStarter to save on fees. Retail is months away.

post #119 of 1367
Quote:
Originally Posted by m-i-c-k-e-y View Post
 

SD Geek

$219 -> Kickstarter Price. For 1 month campaign for backers. Did you back the campaign also?

$299 -> Target retail price. They published this since the beginning of the campaign back Aug. 13, 2013

            See homepage of their Kickstarter campagin. I'm sure you did not missed it.

 

I'm confident GEEK will sound amazing (have you seen the measurements?) and a lot of other things.

That is why they overshoot their goal by 10 folds.

As I wrote in the P.S., I'm sure that GEEK will sound great.

 

The measurements are no longer relevant, as they have just changed the DAC chip, but they will likely improve further.

Unfortunately, almost all modern DACs measure far beyond the limits of human hearing, and there is no measurement that can predict

if the DAC will be "euphonic", "musical", "natural","airy" or many other terms we care about. It's all in the tuning of the sound.

We can't compare DACs based on measurements alone.

 

Having said that, I think we can finish this discussion here - GEEK is not worth it for me right now, but it will fit many others.

post #120 of 1367
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenF View Post

Haven't you read the P.S. ?

It's still in the preorder phase - they just moved it out of KickStarter to save on fees. Retail is months away.

Yes, I read the PS. You basically admitted that you are posting flame bait.

And you are still missing the boat on how this all works. Their funding window closed on Kickstarter - they had to move it.
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