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Westone UM PRO Series Thread - Page 18

post #256 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by majedelamine View Post

The W series, including the W40 (4BAs) are made for music listening consumers so the sound signature is more general population. The targeted freq. are the ones that studio recordings usually boost to please listeners. The UM series are the original expertise of westone, they are made as true monitors for musicians, this means better live reproduction, better low frequencies to reduce crowd noise, and most importantly less fatigue by rolling out extended high freq. This makes the sound signature different than hi fi sounds general population likes, and the W series was issued to address the complains of general listeners who bought the UM series and critisized them as if the are aimed to general hi fi. Summary is W series is more enjoyable by most music lovers, clearer high freq, yet more fatiguing than UMs. UMs have in my opinion a bolder sound signature for people who like to be surprised by their music listening, listen for longer periods, and prefer certain guitar driven music. I enjoy the UM series for rock blues jazz stuff more than Ws


Thanks a lot looks I'll be looking at the UM series. Thanks a lot if the UM50 comes out soon this quarter I'll wait it out then.
post #257 of 669
Well a month a go i was discussing with a dealer in Hobg Kong that i wanna pass by and deliver ears impression for having the ES50, and being a friend he told me to wait a couple of months and get the universal fit version of it. The UM Pro 50, he said if westone fits my ears well, then i will be saying a couple of 100s by getting the universal one, which is exactly the same from the inside, with the high freq BAs positioned a little differently to fit the shell, and that some ES50s have the same BA position if the ears are small. I thought the bass will be impacted due to the stronger seal of the custom, but i like the bass here. However a drummer i know in shanghai has the ES50, i will take my UM Pro with me next time to ask him to confirm what the dealer says by A/B. Obviously his doesnt fit my ears
post #258 of 669
I have spent last night A/B ing songs between w4r/UM pro 50, ie800/um pro 50 and asg-2/um pro 50. I was using Ak120 passing through headstage arrow on low gain. I will go into details later. The highlights are:
1- w4r sounds not so coherent from low mids down until sub bass. It feels like it has some phase issues now. I support westones idea of one low frequency BA now. It gives better coherence. That was noticed before on forums and people comparing the ES5 with JH series. JH always had more bass but less integrated sound at bass level and thus less natural. I can understand why shure spent 4 years trying to come up with a solution for this in SE846
2- ie800/um pro 50. The over all clarity in ie800 is unbeatable, its too clear! Our brain doesnt have to sum up signals coming from different BAs since its one dynamic body. However i loved the highs of the UMPro much much more. Its soooo naturals, so non fatiguing and so there. The ie800 was too analytical the trebel seems synthesized not so real, and hurts the ears. With the um pro i kept asking duan allman and jimi hendrix to squeal more and more it gave me a nirvana of safe trebel and a real one too. 2 BAs in high freq seems to be possible to be integrated in our brain much better than lows.
3- Aurisonics are customer monitors makers but decided to sell generic fits of the same model. Their flag ship is AS2 and generic ASG2 so kinda of what ES50 and umpro 50 are. They are both crafted in the US and claim the best generic fit. ASG2 is hybrid, relying mainly on one dynamic driver which covers the lows and mids and the highs are enhanced with 2 BAs. Well bass is go, not tight enough at the mid bass so drums are not as real as the UMs. The power of asg2 is the mids and vocals. It beats the UM 3x but comes on par with UM pro 50. Maybe asg2 is a little just a little clearer. The highs again and again westone wins they did magic in not going too far till it is artificial like asg2 and ie800. Its soo real again and again.
post #259 of 669

Regarding Pro 50,  Is the bass quantity same like W4 then?  Or more like UM3X/Pro30?  For me bass qty needs to be at least what UM3X/Pro30 is.

 

Also, if midrange is more forward and closer than W4 or UM3X I do not think I would like the Pro 50.  Overly forward sounding IEM's do not do it for me.  As far as treble....when I add a little EQ I think Pro30 treble is more than adequate.  More would be fatiguing.


Edited by Spyro - 2/10/14 at 8:37pm
post #260 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

Regarding Pro 50,  Is the bass quantity same like W4 then?  Or more like UM3X/Pro30?  For me bass qty needs to be at least what UM3X/Pro30 is.

Also, if midrange is more forward and closer than W4 or UM3X I do not think I would like the Pro 50.  Overly forward sounding IEM's do not do it for me.  As far as treble....when I add a little EQ I think Pro30 treble is more than adequate.  More would be fatiguing.

The bass is exactly the same set up as um 3x, the single BA used on the low freq on the UM series and the Elite custom series are specially made for the on stage setup. The w4 has 2 BAs that are especially made for the W series. Having said that, when i do A/B with the W4r its obvious that bass character is not the same, the UM pro has better extentiin and the slam is intact, while the W4r seems weaker because there is some phase issue between the 2 BAs in my opinion. So i would say the bass is the UM series bass. I think westone chose not to release a UM Pro 60 because they wanted to keep using the special sound of low frequency of UM series, so adding anothet BA would have messed the bass i love in UM3x. For the mids,
I dont suppose you are mixing it up with soundstage. The mids in UMPro 50 work as a seemless mid bass and mid presence so its more real and clear. The closeness comes from the sound stage setup. The UM pro 50 has a better sound stage than the UM3x (i mean wider) but i still think w4r has the widest soundstage, and i think also this is due to the phase issue between the 2 low BAs playing mind tricks of eco like. As for the highs, fatigue has nothing to do with the clarity of trebel reproduction, it has to do with the intensity or amplitude of notes that are produced at certain frequencies that resonate with the ears and fatigue them. The added clarity in trebel that the UMpro50 is due to reproduction of more details, meaning more frequencies are reproduced, not meaning treble frequencies are boosted. Thus EQing trebel is definetly fatiguing since you are increasing the amplitude of existing treble frequencies, while the pro50 adds another BA in a way to repriduce more frequencies at the same amplitude, thus more clarity and not more fatigue
post #261 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by majedelamine View Post


The bass is exactly the same set up as um 3x, the single BA used on the low freq on the UM series and the Elite custom series are specially made for the on stage setup. The w4 has 2 BAs that are especially made for the W series. Having said that, when i do A/B with the W4r its obvious that bass character is not the same, the UM pro has better extentiin and the slam is intact, while the W4r seems weaker because there is some phase issue between the 2 BAs in my opinion. So i would say the bass is the UM series bass. I think westone chose not to release a UM Pro 60 because they wanted to keep using the special sound of low frequency of UM series, so adding anothet BA would have messed the bass i love in UM3x. For the mids,
I dont suppose you are mixing it up with soundstage. The mids in UMPro 50 work as a seemless mid bass and mid presence so its more real and clear. The closeness comes from the sound stage setup. The UM pro 50 has a better sound stage than the UM3x (i mean wider) but i still think w4r has the widest soundstage, and i think also this is due to the phase issue between the 2 low BAs playing mind tricks of eco like. As for the highs, fatigue has nothing to do with the clarity of trebel reproduction, it has to do with the intensity or amplitude of notes that are produced at certain frequencies that resonate with the ears and fatigue them. The added clarity in trebel that the UMpro50 is due to reproduction of more details, meaning more frequencies are reproduced, not meaning treble frequencies are boosted. Thus EQing trebel is definetly fatiguing since you are increasing the amplitude of existing treble frequencies, while the pro50 adds another BA in a way to repriduce more frequencies at the same amplitude, thus more clarity and not more fatigue

Hi, 

 

Mids can take on many parts of the music, could you please comment on how the vocals sound comparing UM PRO 50 to UM3X/W4R.

 

Are they clear/natural sounding, "in your face" or wide apart, warmer/forward or not?

 

If it helps, here is my impression comparing the UM PRO 30(UM3X) vs W40(W4R) :

http://www.head-fi.org/t/677181/appreciation-westone-um-pro-series/180#post_10062215

 

Essentially, I chose UM PRO 30 over the W40 due to a better presentation of the vocals. The only thing I would change in my impression after owning the UM PRO 30 for a couple of months is that the treble sounds relaxed and it is good to hear there will be more treble in the UM PRO 50.

post #262 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by KamijoIsMyHero View Post

Hi, 

Mids can take on many parts of the music, could you please comment on how the vocals sound comparing UM PRO 50 to UM3X/W4R.

Are they clear/natural sounding, "in your face" or wide apart, warmer/forward or not?

If it helps, here is my impression comparing the UM PRO 30(UM3X) vs W40(W4R) :
http://www.head-fi.org/t/677181/appreciation-westone-um-pro-series/180#post_10062215

Essentially, I chose UM PRO 30 over the W40 due to a better presentation of the vocals. The only thing I would change in my impression after owning the UM PRO 30 for a couple of months is that the treble sounds relaxed and it is good to hear there will be more treble in the UM PRO 50.

More trebel, and more importantly clearer trebel, meaning better frequency management of trebel, not rolled out when bass and mids step in.

For vocals mids, i feel the sound to be closer than w4r, it is forward but not ever congested. Male vocals are very natural and not dry, low part of the mids are very natural in this eim. The female vocals are very clear, slightly more recessed and less colored than male vocals, but much clearer than um 3x
post #263 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by majedelamine View Post


More trebel, and more importantly clearer trebel, meaning better frequency management of trebel, not rolled out when bass and mids step in.

For vocals mids, i feel the sound to be closer than w4r, it is forward but not ever congested. Male vocals are very natural and not dry, low part of the mids are very natural in this eim. The female vocals are very clear, slightly more recessed and less colored than male vocals, but much clearer than um 3x

Thanks for the comparison. I am still on the fence about the vocals, if the male vocals are natural then I don't get how they can be colored compared to female as per your following sentence describing male vocals. Hopefully my local headphone shop will carry the UM PRO 50 as better treble is alluring if the vocal presentation is either improved or unchanged.

post #264 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by KamijoIsMyHero View Post

Thanks for the comparison. I am still on the fence about the vocals, if the male vocals are natural then I don't get how they can be colored compared to female as per your following sentence describing male vocals. Hopefully my local headphone shop will carry the UM PRO 50 as better treble is alluring if the vocal presentation is either improved or unchanged.

Let me clarify in simple terms. The vocal overall are very natural and not colored when you compare it with 4r and is more forward.The vocal come mainly from the 2 mid BAs and those are very natural. But then there is the influence of the other BAs on the vocals. So compared to 4r all vocal range is natural, however when you compare male to female within UMpro you notice that since female voice has more influence from the high freq 2BAs they are more natural than the male voice which gets a little from the upper range of the single low freq BA, which provides some relative coloration. For me i like this since female vocals ate more jazz and classical stuff which i appreciate natural audiophile stuff, which rock blues male vocals get a lovely coloration. However it is still more natural than shures and w4r
post #265 of 669

I have reconfirmed that with more listening, I am convinced now that the 2BA setup in westone deliver more natural and less coloration however on the expense of being more recessed( moved backwards) so what does that mean in UMPRO 50. the higher the frequency range the more natural output you get but the less forward, the lowed the frequency range the more coloration and more forward. The low BA is a single special bigger BA than the 2 BAs they use on the highs and mids. When it comes to W4r, the low frequencies are handled by 2 small BAs not the same BA that the UMPro series use, thus w4r has more natural bass however less forward and more recessed.

 

Having said that, I ill expect that Westone W60 will have the flattest most natural sound for audiophile, since it will use the mid and high setup of the UMPRO and the low freq. setup of the w4R. thus you get very natural reproduction on all frequecy range, but that will cause the sound and especially the bass to be less forward and present. W60 and UMPRo 50s will have a lot of comparison and subjective opinions on the low frequency range taste. For me I am in love with the big low frequency BA used in the UMPro series ( and the ES series). But I will definetly buy the W60 when it arrives to HongKong and then do a better comparison

post #266 of 669

Its all clear for me now smily_headphones1.gif
post #267 of 669
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by majedelamine View Post


Its all clear for me now smily_headphones1.gif
Nice!! It's a Fiio cable?
post #268 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by xaddictionx View Post


Nice!! It's a Fiio cable?

Yes it is... RC-SE1 (SE for Shure's SE series). The Fiio still sell this as Shure replacement cable (RC). They still has the 2 pin old westone connector as the official RC-WT1 (Westone replacement cable), so be carefull if you ever buy one for the new UMPRO or W series.

 

A quick impression on any change in sound signature. Well I first used the triple flange tips, customized by cutting off the upper flange, and reducing the length of the stem (in a slight angle to give some angle diviation that I learned from the IE800 in ear form). The Seal was almost a custom monitor grade, I loved it. But the sound with the stock cable seemed too dark for my taste now, compared to the brighter star tips. After using Fiio's RC-SE1 the sound is brighter. So the customized triple flange tips plus the RC-SE1 made the UMPRO 50 back to its original sound signature that I loved out of the box, but with much better seal, and a cool all clear look (tips, buds, and cable). All I am missing is an AK120 titanium to mach them all together, which I will not get... I am not that crazy paying over a $1000 just to match the player with the phones.

post #269 of 669

So is it fair to say that the UMpro50 is a UM3X/UMPro30 with better clarity?

I am not trying to minimize any improvements because Pro30 is ultimate perfection except for use of added pristine crisp detail that the 50 might have.  Just not sure its worth another $400 for that improvement.?

 

FOLKS!!!!!! Keep in mind, many of us have an illness towards this hobby.  I guess it could vary by discretionary income  but it is my own personal opinion that once you get past a $400 IEM price level, the interest in the music takes a back seat and it becomes MORE about the quality of the sound.  Not sure there is really any denying that.


Edited by Spyro - 2/15/14 at 7:38pm
post #270 of 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

So is it fair to say that the UMpro50 is a UM3X/UMPro30 with better clarity?
I am not trying to minimize any improvements because Pro30 is ultimate perfection except for use of added pristine crisp detail that the 50 might have.  Just not sure its worth another $400 for that improvement.?

FOLKS!!!!!! Keep in mind, many of us have an illness towards this hobby.  I guess it could vary by discretionary income  but it is my own personal opinion that once you get past a $400 IEM price level, the interest in the music takes a back seat and it becomes MORE about the quality of the sound.  Not sure there is really any denying that.

I fully agree, the sound signature of UMX3 is amazing and i am happy that the same setup is still in UMPro 50, with better details indeed. Is it worth the extra 400usd, i am not sure too, we are stuck with wanting better of what we like. Its like the love of your life getting a little more beautiful, you love her anyway but you still want her to be more and more beautiful. And i do agree about our obsession, however we look for better sound quality to re-enjoy the music we love again and again. Its a curse that our brain gets used to the music we love so it stop giving us ecstasy, so we look for an improvement in sound quality or change in sound signature to push out brain to experience the music we love as if it has new elements thus we feel the ecstasy again...
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