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Imaging Sound-stage and Dynamics- Growing Instinctual Appreciation - Page 2

post #16 of 33
Sometimes I think that a lot of the people who talk about soundstage haven't ever really heard it. All they know is phase and stereo separation which affect soundstage, but aren't soundstage in and unto themselves.
post #17 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

Sometimes I think that a lot of the people who talk about soundstage haven't ever really heard it. All they know is phase and stereo separation which affect soundstage, but aren't soundstage in and unto themselves.


Depends on definition, I guess.

I tend to think of headstage as the actual size of the headstage of a headphone, soundstage being the imagined/deduced stage/venue in a given track.

post #18 of 33
Exactly... It's the dimensional aural spread of instruments laid out in front of the listener, with left/right being handled by the two channels, and near/far being handled by psychoacoustic aural cues. In a good recording, you can close your eyes and point to the exact position of each performer.

A recording that has strong all left/all right information has no soundstage at all, and neither does most "Pink Floyd" style rock albums where the position of the instruments is fluid in the mix and bears no relationship to real performance space.

Anyone who has heard early RCA Living Stereo or late 50s Jazz recordings knows exactly what clear soundstage sounds like. It's primarily a function of the recording itself, not the equipment, although poor setup of speakers can muddle it up. Headphones have a hard time rendering clear soundstage at all, except with binaural recordings designed specifically for listening to in headphones.

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post #19 of 33

I think we need a clear definition on what soundstage and headstage is here on head-fi, maybe even introduce other words for further understanding.

post #20 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

Exactly... It's the dimensional aural spread of instruments laid out in front of the listener, with left/right being handled by the two channels, and near/far being handled by psychoacoustic aural cues. In a good recording, you can close your eyes and point to the exact position of each performer.

A recording that has strong all left/all right information has no soundstage at all, and neither does most "Pink Floyd" style rock albums where the position of the instruments is fluid in the mix and bears no relationship to real performance space.

Anyone who has heard early RCA Living Stereo or late 50s Jazz recordings knows exactly what clear soundstage sounds like. It's primarily a function of the recording itself, not the equipment, although poor setup of speakers can muddle it up. Headphones have a hard time rendering clear soundstage at all, except with binaural recordings designed specifically for listening to in headphones.

.

Very nice, I noticed that about some of my old classical jazz Vinly rips 

post #21 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

Exactly... It's the dimensional aural spread of instruments laid out in front of the listener, with left/right being handled by the two channels, and near/far being handled by psychoacoustic aural cues. In a good recording, you can close your eyes and point to the exact position of each performer.

A recording that has strong all left/all right information has no soundstage at all, and neither does most "Pink Floyd" style rock albums where the position of the instruments is fluid in the mix and bears no relationship to real performance space.

Anyone who has heard early RCA Living Stereo or late 50s Jazz recordings knows exactly what clear soundstage sounds like. It's primarily a function of the recording itself, not the equipment, although poor setup of speakers can muddle it up. Headphones have a hard time rendering clear soundstage at all, except with binaural recordings designed specifically for listening to in headphones.

.

 

I agree on the point, but we overlook the genre aspect here. Not all genres have the property of instrument localisation. Electronic music for instance, can be totally virtual, relying entirely on the recording engineer for its aural properties.

post #22 of 33

Most recordings of today dont have dynamic range to have a big soundstage. Sure, there are some instrument seperation, but I would not call it a soundstage.

 

If I want to hear soundstage, i have to dig up an old classical recording and listen to it on my speakers. That is my own experience anyway.


Edited by MatsGyver - 8/29/13 at 4:06am
post #23 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by proton007 View Post

I agree on the point, but we overlook the genre aspect here. Not all genres have the property of instrument localisation. Electronic music for instance, can be totally virtual, relying entirely on the recording engineer for its aural properties.

Exactly. No soundstage. I imagine it would be possible to build a virtual soundstage, but I don't know of anyone who has really done it.
post #24 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MatsGyver View Post

Most recordings of today dont have dynamic range to have a big soundstage. Sure, there are some instrument seperation, but I would not call it a soundstage.

 

If I want to hear soundstage, i have to dig up an old classical recording and listen to it on my speakers. That is my own experience anyway.

Agree'd, for that reason I really love classical and older jazz recordings! Not to mention Explorations of Space and Time [Bi nural] is a very cool percussion track! [With a nice sound stage] And I feel sound stage includes both 2D and 3D placement. 

post #25 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post

Exactly... It's the dimensional aural spread of instruments laid out in front of the listener, with left/right being handled by the two channels, and near/far being handled by psychoacoustic aural cues. In a good recording, you can close your eyes and point to the exact position of each performer.

A recording that has strong all left/all right information has no soundstage at all, and neither does most "Pink Floyd" style rock albums where the position of the instruments is fluid in the mix and bears no relationship to real performance space.

Anyone who has heard early RCA Living Stereo or late 50s Jazz recordings knows exactly what clear soundstage sounds like. It's primarily a function of the recording itself, not the equipment, although poor setup of speakers can muddle it up. Headphones have a hard time rendering clear soundstage at all, except with binaural recordings designed specifically for listening to in headphones.

.

(sry ot)
Could you point some of those 50's jazz recordings? :P Thanks

post #26 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headzone View Post

(sry ot)
Could you point some of those 50's jazz recordings? :P Thanks

Early Dave Brubeck Quartet and Modern Jazz Quartet recordings, the remaster have a nice imaging to them Although I should mention my Dave Brubeck stuff is in 24 bit if that matters to any one 

 

And the The Complete Atlantic Studio Recordings of The Modern Jazz Quartet 1956-64 (2011), is a great example of this, get this compliation and love it forever 

 

And to MY ears, I hear the bass drums and cymbals behind the Xylophone and piano, [using my Beyer Dt 990. 880 and Modded w1000x] sadly my Akg K550 only has the sound of "recessed" cymbals, drums and bass. 

post #27 of 33

Also, John Coltrane. 

post #28 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Lotus View Post

Also, John Coltrane. 

Ooh yea good thinking thanks :D

post #29 of 33

I'm curious about the notion that the "angle" of the headphone pads can "increase the sound-stage".

Is there a solid psychoacoustic reasoning behind this?

Or is it merely placebo? 

 What are your thoughts?

post #30 of 33

There's at least a physical reason. At high frequencies the angle and distance is going to matter quite a bit.

In other words the frequency response at high frequencies is going to look different.

 

Influence on the sound-stage? I'm not so sure. Maybe since nobody's ears are perfectly symmetrical some special angle would help incorporating the differences due to different pinnae better (again at high frequencies)?


Edited by xnor - 8/29/13 at 8:06pm
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