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Audio-gd NFB-28 - Page 26

post #376 of 1580

^^^^^^I suppose this is why those IPOD doc's are somewhat necessary, the iPURE has always done fine one my LYR and hopefully when needed will do the job for the NFB-28 when I get it.

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post #377 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by zach915m View Post
 

^^^^^^I suppose this is why those IPOD doc's are somewhat necessary, the iPURE has always done fine one my LYR and hopefully when needed will do the job for the NFB-28 when I get it.

 

So that's what you sold the Mjolnir for. I was kicking myself all sunday afternoon for not winning that. I was 2nd highest. Was really hoping to try some of yours to compare against my balanced mad dogs. 

post #378 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post
 

 

So that's what you sold the Mjolnir for. I was kicking myself all sunday afternoon for not winning that. I was 2nd highest. Was really hoping to try some of yours to compare against my balanced mad dogs. 

 

I actually had to null the high bidder because he was registered in the US and wanted the headphone shipped to China so I had to second chance offer it, I'm guessing you were next!

 

I ended up getting an NFB-28, and a 10.33 from Audio GD and a couple Vintage receiver's to replace, I love that I can use those units as DAC's with my LYR or the receiver's and it just seemed like the route to go with instead of buying a Gungnir, at least for what my use is (shows/testing etc).

 

The Mjolnir is a wonderful amp though and I know I am going to miss it much and probably regret it's sale once it's actually out the door in a few days!  Hopefully the DHL truck shows up soon with the Audio GD stuff!

 

ON TOPIC:

 

Question:  The Master 9 and the NFB-28 are somewhat close in both Voltage and Wattage as listed on the audio-gd site, with the gain stages varying as the NFB-28 is +12 and the Master 9 goes to +21 db.  Does the added gain actually help that much in the case of headphones like the HE-6 in utilizing headroom or is it just volume that you are gaining, what am I missing?  I'm not an amp expert so any info knowledge would be appreciated.

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post #379 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by nserra View Post
 

I'm in that forum and I tested the Lyr and the HE-6.

 

In most cases, I could not pass 50/60 steps of volume. You only can have problems of low volume at the max with very low volume recordings. But at the end I think the HE-6 needs more power, for me the HE-500 is a better match for the NFB-28. I guess that the HE-6 will be driven better with the Master 9, or even the SA-31SE, which is more powerful than the NFB-28. I have the NFB-28 conected to a computer and with the HE-500 usually have the volume arround 30 in High Gain.

 

Comparing the NFB-28 vs the Lyr, I think that the Audio GD is a better amp in every way. Is more neutral, refined, and smooth. I found that the Lyr sounds quite good, but for me, it lacks some overall refinement. The power output is very similar, but maybye the diferences with the HE-6 are because of the voltage. Anyway, I woud not recommend any of both to drive the HE-6 properly.

 

 

Thanks for the clarifications.  I guess I was really commenting on the earlier posting where it was said with NFB28 the HE-6 don't have enough volume.  I guess probably something was lost in translation from the original post and thus shared my first hand experience on the volume aspect.   I won't really comment on whether the HE-6 is "properly" driven as this is highly subjective.  OTOH, IMO HE-6 don't need all that scaling up to sound marvelous for me - it sounded nice even on my HM901 balanced card, and yes, even this DAP can provide enough volume for many genres including classical.

post #380 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by zach915m View Post
 

 

I actually had to null the high bidder because he was registered in the US and wanted the headphone shipped to China so I had to second chance offer it, I'm guessing you were next!

 

I ended up getting an NFB-28, and a 10.33 from Audio GD and a couple Vintage receiver's to replace, I love that I can use those units as DAC's with my LYR or the receiver's and it just seemed like the route to go with instead of buying a Gungnir, at least for what my use is (shows/testing etc).

 

The Mjolnir is a wonderful amp though and I know I am going to miss it much and probably regret it's sale once it's actually out the door in a few days!  Hopefully the DHL truck shows up soon with the Audio GD stuff!

 

ON TOPIC:

 

Question:  The Master 9 and the NFB-28 are somewhat close in both Voltage and Wattage as listed on the audio-gd site, with the gain stages varying as the NFB-28 is +12 and the Master 9 goes to +21 db.  Does the added gain actually help that much in the case of headphones like the HE-6 in utilizing headroom or is it just volume that you are gaining, what am I missing?  I'm not an amp expert so any info knowledge would be appreciated.

 

I didn't get a notification so I ran and checked. Looks like I'm actually 3rd :mad: Bummer! Hopefully that guy has second thoughts. :evil:

 

 

I think the DACs in the combo units I've heard and owned are almost worth the asking price alone. They are such good DACs. I don't think I've heard a DAC that to my ears competes with the flagship DACs kingwa cranks out. 

 

 

You'll probably get more volume out of the Master 9, and a bit more control over the driver, if that makes any sense (speaking specifically of the HE-6). I tried my HE-6 on just about every headphone amplifier out there, but none of them could really give as much bass quantity and control as when I tried with speaker amps. Even the Mjolnir and EF-6 seemed a little bass with the HE-6. I thought the HE-6 sounded pretty good out of my vintage pioneer SX990. 

 

That's why a lot of HE-6 owners started looking into speaker amplifiers. It seemed the extra power really increased the bass, and didn't make the treble sound so thin. When I first was looking preproman convinced me to guinea pig on the emotiva A-100. I compared it to the Audio-GD NFB-10SE and Little Dot MKVI+ with the HE-6, and found it to sound nearly identical with added bass and far less sibilance. 

post #381 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post
 

 

I didn't get a notification so I ran and checked. Looks like I'm actually 3rd :mad: Bummer! Hopefully that guy has second thoughts. :evil:

 

 

I think the DACs in the combo units I've heard and owned are almost worth the asking price alone. They are such good DACs. I don't think I've heard a DAC that to my ears competes with the flagship DACs kingwa cranks out. 

 

 

You'll probably get more volume out of the Master 9, and a bit more control over the driver, if that makes any sense (speaking specifically of the HE-6). I tried my HE-6 on just about every headphone amplifier out there, but none of them could really give as much bass quantity and control as when I tried with speaker amps. Even the Mjolnir and EF-6 seemed a little bass with the HE-6. I thought the HE-6 sounded pretty good out of my vintage pioneer SX990. 

 

That's why a lot of HE-6 owners started looking into speaker amplifiers. It seemed the extra power really increased the bass, and didn't make the treble sound so thin. When I first was looking preproman convinced me to guinea pig on the emotiva A-100. I compared it to the Audio-GD NFB-10SE and Little Dot MKVI+ with the HE-6, and found it to sound nearly identical with added bass and far less sibilance. 


Haha!

 

That does make sense the idea of "control" by having more head-room.  Upon listening to Ray Samuels Dark Star I had a similar discussion with him regarding head-room and why the Dark Star sounded to even handed and precise without sibilance and a dead flat black background and it was all about headroom, voltage, and staying within' the amplifier's comfort range.  I'm sure this is the reason why using speaker taps out of vintage receiver's or speaker amps makes the HE-6's sing so well.  I actually still just have the HE-500 but will hear the HE-6 I believe soon...!  Hopefully I don't like it too much! :gs1000smile:

 

Did you use the speaker taps on the SX990 or the headphone out?

 

I'm very much looking forward to trying the NFB-28 as a DAC with the LYR as I believe the smooth and refined DAC in the NFB-28 will response well to the thicker tones of the LYR, has anyone tried this combo?

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post #382 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by zach915m View Post


Haha!

 

That does make sense the idea of "control" by having more head-room.  Upon listening to Ray Samuels Dark Star I had a similar discussion with him regarding head-room and why the Dark Star sounded to even handed and precise without sibilance and a dead flat black background and it was all about headroom, voltage, and staying within' the amplifier's comfort range.  I'm sure this is the reason why using speaker taps out of vintage receiver's or speaker amps makes the HE-6's sing so well.  I actually still just have the HE-500 but will hear the HE-6 I believe soon...!  Hopefully I don't like it too much! :gs1000smile:

 

Did you use the speaker taps on the SX990 or the headphone out?

 

I'm very much looking forward to trying the NFB-28 as a DAC with the LYR as I believe the smooth and refined DAC in the NFB-28 will response well to the thicker tones of the LYR, has anyone tried this combo?

 

What I think is super interesting about vintage receivers is that most of them actually use the speaker taps for the headphone output! There's a direct line with a resistor (I think the SX-990 is 120ohms when I was looking into it). So it shouldn't matter that much, as long as the resistors are decent quality. I didn't find much of a difference when I A-B compared mine.

 

I think the T50rp drivers really sing out of vintage receivers too. It's a really strange vintage/power combination that hits a sweet spot. 

post #383 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkcc View Post
 

 

 

Thanks for the clarifications.  I guess I was really commenting on the earlier posting where it was said with NFB28 the HE-6 don't have enough volume.  I guess probably something was lost in translation from the original post and thus shared my first hand experience on the volume aspect.   I won't really comment on whether the HE-6 is "properly" driven as this is highly subjective.  OTOH, IMO HE-6 don't need all that scaling up to sound marvelous for me - it sounded nice even on my HM901 balanced card, and yes, even this DAP can provide enough volume for many genres including classical.

I guess It depends in the volume of the recording and the listening volume of each one. The NFB-28 drives the HE-6 quite well, but in my tests with some classical music or really low volume recordings, It didn't have enough volume for me, that's why y prefer the HE-500 with the NFB-28.

 

And I know what a DAP can do. I have a Fiio X3 and I can listen the HE-500 surprinsingly good with it. Not many time ago I tried the HM901 and I really like it a lot, but my unit didn't have the balanced card, and with the stock card is signficicantly less powerful.

post #384 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by nserra View Post
 
 

I guess It depends in the volume of the recording and the listening volume of each one. The NFB-28 drives the HE-6 quite well, but in my tests with some classical music or really low volume recordings, It didn't have enough volume for me, that's why y prefer the HE-500 with the NFB-28.

 

And I know what a DAP can do. I have a Fiio X3 and I can listen the HE-500 surprinsingly good with it. Not many time ago I tried the HM901 and I really like it a lot, but my unit didn't have the balanced card, and with the stock card is signficicantly less powerful.

 

I have these experiences exactly. It really was live recordings of jazz or classical music that I'd be trying to crank up the volume. 

post #385 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSire View Post
 

I've posted this in the NFB-3 thread as well, but wanted to get your take on this too since the NFB-3 and NFB-28 uses a similar design in its DAC stage.

 

As I'm putting my NFB-3 through the paces and testing the ins-and-outs of all the functionality, I've discovered something.  I sent Kingwa a message on Sunday but waiting to hear back from him.

 

This is related to the USB32, optical input and relay click.  I've noticed that if I send an optical signal to the unit, the USB32 cannot override the sample rate.  Essentially it is locking the unit at whatever sample rate the optical is sending it.

 

I've discovered this when I had the optical out from my soundcard connected to the optical in, and using the USB32 input at the same time.  Without the optical connected, anytime I would play/stop a song, or switch songs to different sample rates (44.1kHz, 96kHz, etc.), the internal relay would click letting me know it is switching.  However, if I turn the optical source, I can hear the relay in the unit click (even though it isn't even on Optical) and then the USB32 never clicks.  I can switch between different sample rates all day and no relay click whatsoever.

 

If I shut off the optical source, the USB32 does its normal relay click as expected.

 

This is what makes me believe it gets stuck at using whatever sample rate the Optical Source is, regardless of the USB32 input.

 
As another test, I used my PS3 as the optical input as well.  As soon as I turn the PS3 on, the relay clicks (syncing it to the PS3), and then it never clicks again when using the USB32.  If I turn the PS3 off, everything is back to normal.
 
This behaviour doesn't happen over the Coax input.  Coax input functions exactly as expected.
 
Now, the sound still does come through the USB32 input fine with an optical source on, but I would rather it be playing bitperfect and not resampled.
 
Can anyone confirm/deny this behaviour?  I hope it isn't a wider spread issue.
 
I will update when I hear back from Kingwa.
 
Thanks

 

So Kingwa and I have been discussing and looking over the unit.  He says it shouldn't be doing that but we cannot seem to find the fault anywhere.  It sounds like it is with the switch selector but everything looks fine.

 

Can anyone with a NFB-28/NFB-3 (or anything with the new DSD units with the muting relay) test out the above?  Basically all it is when you are on USB and stop/start a song or anything, you should hear the muting relay 'click'.  As soon as you turn on an optical source and the unit gets the signal for that, the muting relay no longer works for USB.  It still works properly for Coax/Optical, it just doesn't work anymore for the USB.

 

When I then turn off the Optical source, the relay works again as expected.

 

After discussing with Kingwa, this has nothing to do with the sample rate or anything like that.  This is just affecting the muting relay itself.

 

Since the muting relay is really only in place for when you switch to a DSD track (to avoid the loud pop), it isn't a big deal.  But for the price of these units, I'd expect it to be working properly.

post #386 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSire View Post

So Kingwa and I have been discussing and looking over the unit.  He says it shouldn't be doing that but we cannot seem to find the fault anywhere.  It sounds like it is with the switch selector but everything looks fine.

Can anyone with a NFB-28/NFB-3 (or anything with the new DSD units with the muting relay) test out the above?  Basically all it is when you are on USB and stop/start a song or anything, you should hear the muting relay 'click'.  As soon as you turn on an optical source and the unit gets the signal for that, the muting relay no longer works for USB.  It still works properly for Coax/Optical, it just doesn't work anymore for the USB.

When I then turn off the Optical source, the relay works again as expected.

After discussing with Kingwa, this has nothing to do with the sample rate or anything like that.  This is just affecting the muting relay itself.

Since the muting relay is really only in place for when you switch to a DSD track (to avoid the loud pop), it isn't a big deal.  But for the price of these units, I'd expect it to be working properly.

My problem exactly with the Compass2.
post #387 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post


My problem exactly with the Compass2.

 

I thought yours was related to the RCA input and not optical?  Does yours do it on optical too?

post #388 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSire View Post

I thought yours was related to the RCA input and not optical?  Does yours do it on optical too?

No it's RCA but I have to select a digital input to use it. Won't work with USB selected. I suspect if I substituted RCA for optical, it'd be the same (arguably USB Related) problem.
post #389 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by conquerator2 View Post


No it's RCA but I have to select a digital input to use it. Won't work with USB selected. I suspect if I substituted RCA for optical, it'd be the same (arguably USB Related) problem.

 

Would you be able to test over optical too?  Basically just the simple scenario I mentioned above would be great.  If you can replicate it, you could save me having to ship it back.

 

Kingwa doesn't think it is supposed to be doing it though but it works properly otherwise so it seems like a design/implementation issue to me...

post #390 of 1580
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonSire View Post

Would you be able to test over optical too?  Basically just the simple scenario I mentioned above would be great.  If you can replicate it, you could save me having to ship it back.

Kingwa doesn't think it is supposed to be doing it though but it works properly otherwise so it seems like a design/implementation issue to me...

Will do shortly.
Can the source be different eg. USB - PC, optical - PS3?
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