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2013 Bay Area Headphone Meet & Headmasters (CAS4) Impressions Thread (8/9~8/11) - Page 16  

post #226 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoney View Post

When I tested the damping factor settings on the Teac amp using LCD2 and 3, it made a massive difference to bass, and less so on overall tonality.  On the Senns, not as much difference.  But I have no numbers to even compare whether this relates to the points above. 

 

Also, in one conversation recently about a planar magnetic, I heard something slightly off in certain passages, and it was suggested to be the panel resonance.  I'm curious if damping factor could affect its audibility.  

 

Damping factor will have audible affects. Damping factor = headphone impedance / amp output impedance.

 

The Senn headphones tend to have high impedance ~ > 300-600 ohms, so they are not affected as much, say if an amp's output impedance is near 1, 3, 60, or even 120ohms. A general guideline is having a damping factor of at least x3-5. The LCD2/3 are low impedance headphones (~45 ohms). Low damping factor (from amps with high output impedance) with the Audezes will make them sound sluggish. I prefer the Audezes from amps with a very high damping factor (very low output impedance.)

 

I believe the Teac unit you are talking about has adjustable output Z from 16-600ohms. If you maxed it out to 600ohms, the Audezes are probably going to sound "off". 45 / 600 = 0.075 damping factor. That is not good - actually quite horrible.


Edited by purrin - 8/18/13 at 4:16pm
post #227 of 300

Don't guess at what I was listening to, and on what amp, when I heard something a little "off."  It was small and difficult enough to reproduce that I won't speak of it again unless I can test more combinations.  

 

 

 

Quote:

when you say "slightly off" do you mean you've heard these "passages" sound differently through another rig, which you felt was more accurate?

Or just that things felt off, like something you can't put your finger on?

 

It was a very familiar classical piece that I've heard for decades.  On this setup, there was a distinctive but small effect that at first I thought was a coloration.  But someone suggested a panel resonance, something that is delayed and only triggered by bass near the frequency.  I felt that was more accurate a description.  Too tired then (and now) to dig into it further.  

 

More important is the general discussion.

post #228 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank I View Post
I had also seen the same thing happen at the NY meet. Tom had about 85 on the list sign up and about half showed up.  I was anticipating about 35-40 but we were shy of that at the meet but had a very large turnout at the Headmaster event and show. The goal I set for the show was largely very successful and would have liked to see more at the meet but life does get in the way sometimes as you said. The people there had a great time and I was in and out as I had some rooms that I covered also and my meet and headmaster report should be up early next week. In any event you need to set up the room for what you have signed  so if everyone did show up we had the space for them set up. It wa snot big deal for us as the hotel di all the worktongue_smile.gif

 

I think part of it might be also that some people might have forgotten about the event, which can happen when you announce events too far in advance. The only exception I've seen to that though have been the independent CanJams/National Meets, which were each announced 9-12 months in advance and accumulated attendance rolls of hundreds of Head-Fiers. To that point, I haven't seen any regional meets in the country since CanJam ended in 2010 that have been able to get well beyond 100+ Head-Fiers in attendance. Even CanJam@RMAF, as big as it is for a 3-day event, and with Head-Fi's official affiliation at that, doesn't draw anywhere near the Head-Fier attendance that the independent CanJams did (for a variety of reasons of course). Not really sure how the CanJams/National Meets were so successful at drawing high attendance numbers, maybe you could ask a previous team for their winning strategies. wink.gif


Edited by Asr - 8/18/13 at 6:01pm
post #229 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoney View Post

Don't guess at what I was listening to, and on what amp, when I heard something a little "off."  It was small and difficult enough to reproduce that I won't speak of it again unless I can test more combinations.  

 

 

 

 

It was a very familiar classical piece that I've heard for decades.  On this setup, there was a distinctive but small effect that at first I thought was a coloration.  But someone suggested a panel resonance, something that is delayed and only triggered by bass near the frequency.  I felt that was more accurate a description.  Too tired then (and now) to dig into it further.  

 

More important is the general discussion.

Gotcha, I was just wondering because I'm constantly fascinated how sound reproduction is perceived differently from person to person.

So I was just trying to picture what you were saying.  

 

and thanks @Purrin (hey Marv - how ya been) for also pointing out that damping factor has a audible impact on the presentation.

 

I was lucky with the Audeze closed-back proto -  since we were using my MacBook Pro/Amarra rig I got to sneak in one of my own tracks that got released in 2004 - just a latenight tech house chugger called "Soultek", under our Seamless Satori moniker - we even had to master it for vinyl so I really know every bit of that track - 

 

and it sounded spot on to me.  What impressed me the most were the lower mids.  There's this hovering synth in our track, and we laid it back in the groove when we mixed it, so it's a good, simple tell of a system's resolving capabilities.  We messed with the synth so long that sound got stuck in my brain!  Not only did they handle everything else well, but I felt like I was back working on the tune!!

 

That's the magic, and sometimes the reason for a fallout with peeps when it comes to our individual experiences.  Like I say in my reviews constantly: We all interpret information differently and that includes the art of music and sound reproduction.  I love watching fools try to convince other fools that what they have is "better" or "more balanced" than the others rig.  First off, do you enjoy it?  If so, who cares!  

post #230 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoney View Post

Don't guess at what I was listening to, and on what amp, when I heard something a little "off."  It was small and difficult enough to reproduce that I won't speak of it again unless I can test more combinations.  

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to step on your toes. My reply was pure speculation and only intended to explain that damping factor could possibly have an effect in the context of you yourself mentioning dampening factor. It was an obvious misunderstanding on my part concerning the "what amp" aspect. Again, I profusely apologize.

 

P.S. Many others have heard what they thought was a very very slight reverb effect with the Audezes. The extent of this effect depended upon the amp. I am not saying or guessing this is what you heard. This is just more general information for those who may have heard the effect and wondering if they were insane or not.


Edited by purrin - 8/18/13 at 6:23pm
post #231 of 300

Well, I am insane, but that's not important at the moment.  

post #232 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoney View Post

Well, I am insane, but that's not important at the moment.  

Reminds me of an Airplane reply 

 

"A hospital was is it?"

"it's big building with patients in it, but that's not important right now"

 

NO insult or injury intended

 

It's all good in this hood

 

No, I missed Alex Cavalli's stuff.  He's such a cool guy, I was psyched

he made the dinner.

 

I'm really into hearing the Liquid Glass.

 

Any thoughts on the component from Headmasters??

post #233 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by koiloco View Post

there's the answer to why the bass level would be significantly less.  biggrin.gif  Cheer Tim,  we found the answer to our differences.

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

I'm Tim. He is "D-Nya" Music Daedalus who made those DN-T5p's.

 

post #234 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiuTim View Post

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

I'm Tim. He is "D-Nya" Music Daedalus who made those DN-T5p's.

 

ahhhh!  Thx.  I thought he was Tim.  It kind of made me wonder cuz you were not secretive with the modded T5P at all.  biggrin.gif

post #235 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by koiloco View Post

ahhhh!  Thx.  I thought he was Tim.  It kind of made me wonder cuz you were not secretive with the modded T5P at all.  biggrin.gif

How much would it be to get the mod anyway??

 

Admittedly I'm not in the market for a T5P - but with that mod I could find myself there.

 

Right now I got the wifey OK w/ my getting some Alpha Dogs (after just buying the Mad

Dogs at the LA Meet) - as we share everything, so gotta leave room for her fun too.

 

I think she would really dig that T5P, and with the mod,

OH YEAH...

 

Any thoughts on what you'd charge??

post #236 of 300

Equipment Impressions

 

MrSpeakers Alpha Dog > Schiit Mjolnir > Schiit Gungnir: apparently I'm in the minority with my opinion that the Alpha Dog wasn't all that great. I mean, it was technically very good, much like the Mad Dog, and it sounded a lot like the Mad Dog as well. I previously owned the Mad Dog for almost 2 months and used it with both the Burson Soloist and HeadAmp GS-X MK2 and found it to be a very technically competent headphone, in fact an overachiever in its $300 price bracket. I didn't really think the Alpha Dog was a "huge" improvement - it did seem to have marginally more openness to the sound, along with more clarity, but I half-expected more considering its price. I didn't think they sounded much like the Senn HD800. They still had quite a bit of the closed headphone sound, IMO, and the openness of the sound wasn't as good as something like the Fostex TH900's.

 

I'm not really a fan of planar magnetics in general either, so there's that bias too. I did experience a funny/odd moment at the show when Dan of MrSpeakers took a look at my ears to determine my sonic perception.

 

The hype train on these seems to be going full steam ahead and I'm sure most people won't be persuaded otherwise by my post here, but I for one will not be in line for an Alpha Dog. At $600 I'd rather save up a little more for the much more efficient Fostex TH600. The Alpha Dog's inefficiency is another negative point for me personally.

 

JPS Labs Abyss > Cavalli Liquid Gold: This was the first time I've heard the Abyss, even though a pair was at last year's RMAF. Let me say one thing first: these are by far the ugliest headphones that I've ever seen, and I wouldn't pay even $5 for headphones that look like they came out of a metal junkyard regardless of how good they sound. I also had a ridiculous time trying to get them to fit that completely turned me off before I started listening.

 

That said, they did sound pretty awesome. The treble & clarity reminded me of the Qualia a lot, and the overall signature was almost my ideal type: very clear, very fast, very open, and bass to spare as well that matched the treble. There was some music on the system that I was familiar with, and some that I wasn't (classical), and it played a variety of genres really well. I think I'd say that they were probably better than the current dynamic flagships, even the SR-009 too, but for me it didn't exactly beat the OII MKI. It lacked a naturalness to the sound that the OII MKI has in spades.

 

King Sound Electrostatic Headphone 1 > King Sound M-20 > Bryston BDA-1: These were pretty dang good-sounding. The mid-range was uneven, almost in an Audio-Technica woodie kind of way (but not as extreme), but overall they seemed like versatile headphones. They delivered surprisingly tuneful bass too and maintained bass pitch surprisingly well, much better than most other headphones that I've heard. At $500, I'd call these headphones a really good value! I wanted to check them out more. The frame reminded me of the Abyss but unlike the Abyss, the King Sound actually fit and was comfortable.

 

Audeze closed headphones: I'm not a fan of the Audeze sound as defined by the LCD-2 and LCD-3, so I was expecting to be underwhelmed by these. They did retain a lot of the Audeze sound to me and sounded a lot like the LCD-2, except possibly with more treble and improved clarity. I heard them on very familiar music (Massive Attack's "Inertia Creeps") and thought they sounded good, but not great. Bass I wasn't sure about - it's possible they have more bass quantity than the LCD-2, but that's a guess. Audeze fans will like it, but those who don't like the Audeze sound probably won't.

 

Stax SR-009 > BHSE > reel-to-reel tape deck: I was hoping to be blown away by an analog source but was unimpressed, despite the quality of the amp and headphones. I mean, it sounded very good, but nothing about the sound of the jazz music particularly moved me. I was left wanting for the OII MKI instead of the SR-009. IMO the SR-009 misses what made its predecessor so awesome.

 

Random equipment observation: I didn't notice until later that the computer sources at the show were predominantly MacBooks. This disoriented me because I'm a Windows PC guy myself and the MacOS always throws me off. I sort of wish that more Head-Fiers and vendors would use Windows PCs instead.... tongue.gif

 

First batch of pics, 2nd batch to come later

 

The room for the Head-Fi meet

 

warrenpchi's setup w/ Woo Audio Fireflies

 

a girl listening to the HD800 and WA22 (via my laptop PC-based setup)

 

re-cabled Fostex TH900 w/ unknown amp and Antelope Audio Zodiac Gold

 

Woo Audio WA5 (or WA5 LE, not sure which)

 

CA Audio Show registration tables

 

MrSpeakers Alpha Dog

 

Dan of MrSpeakers going for the photobomb

 

Woo Audio table

 

Cavalli Audio table

 

Head-Fier ironbut representing HeadAmp in lieu of Justin Wilson

 

Stax SR-009, HeadAmp BHSE, and ironbut's self-provided reel tape system

 

King Sound Electrostatic Headphone 1 and M-20 tube stat amp

 

Mrs. Nicole Baird of Moon Audio


Edited by Asr - 8/19/13 at 12:09am
post #237 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asr View Post

Audeze closed headphones: I'm not a fan of the Audeze sound as defined by the LCD-2 and LCD-3, so I was expecting to be underwhelmed by these. They did retain a lot of the Audeze sound to me and sounded a lot like the LCD-2, except possibly with more treble and improved clarity. I heard them on very familiar music (Massive Attack's "Inertia Creeps") and thought they sounded good, but not great. Bass I wasn't sure about - it's possible they have more bass quantity than the LCD-2, but that's a guess. Audeze fans will like it, but those who don't like the Audeze sound probably won't.

 

Thank you! Hopefully I can see more of this. BTW any thoughts on TH-900 vs closed Audeze?

post #238 of 300
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asr View Post

Equipment Impressions

 

MrSpeakers Alpha Dog > Schiit Mjolnir > Schiit Gungnir:  I didn't really think the Alpha Dog was a "huge" improvement - it did seem to have marginally more openness to the sound, along with more clarity, but I half-expected more considering its price.  They still had quite a bit of the closed headphone sound, IMO

 

Really?  I loved it.  Though, for some reason, I found that the white one (via the Bifrost/Lyr stack show below) sounded more open than either of the other two Alpha Dog rigs.  I'm not sure why this is so given that Dan mentioned they were sonically approximates of each other.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asr View Post

 

JPS Labs Abyss > Cavalli Liquid Gold:  they did sound pretty awesome.  I think I'd say that they were probably better than the current dynamic flagships, even the SR-009 too, but for me it didn't exactly beat the OII MKI. It lacked a naturalness to the sound that the OII MKI has in spades.

 

I agree with this exactly, and I surmise that I know exactly what you mean.  While it is probably the most technically competent of any can I've heard, I do feel that it falls behind the Mk I in terms of that lifelikeness that I've only encountered in the Mk I.  For me, it's a visceral thing stemming from the the subtleties of the Mk I's overall presentation.  Currently, I prefer the SR-007 Mk I > Orpheus > Abyss > SR-009.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asr View Post

 

warrenpchi's setup w/ Woo Audio Fireflies

 

Yay!  I'm currently enjoying this right now.  Well, sans the MacBook generously lent to me by HiFiGuy528 for the meet.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asr View Post

 

CA Audio Show registration tables

 

Did you pick up the free Chesky disc they were giving out?  It was the binaural+ Jazz In The New Harmonic album. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asr View Post

 

King Sound Electrostatic Headphone 1 and M-20 tube stat amp

 

Mrs. Nicole Baird of Moon Audio

 

I totally missed the Kingsound.  This was the second time that I missed it as it was supposed to be at the L.A. meet as well (but got tied up in customs or something like that).  I surmise that it will be at RMAF as well though... so I'm not too worried.  It was also a pleasure meeting Drew and Nicole - GREAT PEEPS!

post #239 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asr View Post

 

I think part of it might be also that some people might have forgotten about the event, which can happen when you announce events too far in advance. The only exception I've seen to that though have been the independent CanJams/National Meets, which were each announced 9-12 months in advance and accumulated attendance rolls of hundreds of Head-Fiers. To that point, I haven't seen any regional meets in the country since CanJam ended in 2010 that have been able to get well beyond 100+ Head-Fiers in attendance. Even CanJam@RMAF, as big as it is for a 3-day event, and with Head-Fi's official affiliation at that, doesn't draw anywhere near the Head-Fier attendance that the independent CanJams did (for a variety of reasons of course). Not really sure how the CanJams/National Meets were so successful at drawing high attendance numbers, maybe you could ask a previous team for their winning strategies. wink.gif

Some of it may contribute to a summertime meet as well. I will do some things differently next year to increase the meet participation.  We will probably offer a one day reduced price ticket and some other enticements to make the show also more attractive.  I have asked a couple of people to be more involved next year but overall I was happy with the overall Headmaster participation.  

post #240 of 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asr View Post

To that point, I haven't seen any regional meets in the country since CanJam ended in 2010 that have been able to get well beyond 100+ Head-Fiers in attendance.

 

The latest regional LA meet drew close to 180. The one before that 130. The Feb 2013 Bay Area regional meet (and the 2012 meet) drew over 120. The last three meets mentioned didn't even have the advantage of front-page HF advertising.

 

Part of it could be concern about a possible BART strike. The Bay Area is a huge place and lots of folks live pretty far away from the City. 

 

Ultimately, number of people attending meets shouldn't be a measure of success - unless one is trying to make a profit.


Edited by purrin - 8/19/13 at 9:24am
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