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The Entry Level Stax Thread - Page 39post #571 of 107610/4/13 at 6:03pmThen we need Michael Jackson concert class amp to get it to full potential.
Gear mentioned in this thread:post #572 of 107610/4/13 at 6:45pmQuote:
Ehh no. It's because they actually ARE capable of breezing through complex passages that dynamics typically strain a bit to reproduce. The Lambdas have very low distortion, are extremely fast, and for the most part measure pretty flat. A treble peak can give the impression of more detail than actually exists, but that's not why they sound so clear. He's not being tricked by anything. In fact, I find it easiest to hear this difference in the bass - something like the Lambda Signature for instance will showcase an incredible amount of texture and detail in bass lines that are simply inaudible on almost any dynamic. Just because the Lambdas for the most part are relatively affordable doesn't mean they can't outperform something like the HD800 and he's falling for sound signature tricks. The diaphragms are still light, the stators are still well designed, and the bias is still the same as the Omega series. Electrostatic force doesn't care about price. The Omega series improves greatly on the housings. The HD800 is probably the most detailed and quickest dynamic to date but I still think it falls a bit short of Lambdas on up in those areas. It's noticeable if you listen to electrostats exclusively for a few months.post #573 of 107610/4/13 at 8:25pmI'm glad to hear you say that. I consiser myself a very experienced dynamic listener and I know when I'm hearing more of my music. Also it's not the treble that I hear more of. It's the whole range. Though more noticeably in the midrange where the guitar, vocals, synth and drums seem to reside simultaneously.
I'm not trying to belittle the hd800 in any way. It's probably the best dynamic I've ever heard. Maybe with a high end ss amp it would blow my mind. I just know that for the time being stax is my endgame.post #574 of 107610/4/13 at 8:58pmpost #575 of 107610/4/13 at 9:30pmI am admittedly pre-stax. Currently selling gear and saving for a mid-level lambda setup. I had the opportunity to have a lengthy and quiet audition of the lambda pro (and hd800) combined with my own source components.post #576 of 107610/4/13 at 9:46pmpost #577 of 107610/5/13 at 1:10ampost #578 of 107610/5/13 at 2:38amQuote:
I don't know about modern orthos. A well-modded vintage ortho is likely to outperform mid-fi dynamics especially in the midrange.post #579 of 107610/5/13 at 4:02amQuote:Originally Posted by n3rdling
Ehh no. It's because they actually ARE capable of breezing through complex passages that dynamics typically strain a bit to reproduce. The Lambdas have very low distortion, are extremely fast, and for the most part measure pretty flat. A treble peak can give the impression of more detail than actually exists, but that's not why they sound so clear. He's not being tricked by anything. In fact, I find it easiest to hear this difference in the bass - something like the Lambda Signature for instance will showcase an incredible amount of texture and detail in bass lines that are simply inaudible on almost any dynamic. Just because the Lambdas for the most part are relatively affordable doesn't mean they can't outperform something like the HD800 and he's falling for sound signature tricks. The diaphragms are still light, the stators are still well designed, and the bias is still the same as the Omega series. Electrostatic force doesn't care about price. The Omega series improves greatly on the housings. The HD800 is probably the most detailed and quickest dynamic to date but I still think it falls a bit short of Lambdas on up in those areas. It's noticeable if you listen to electrostats exclusively for a few months.
Sorry but I'm going to disagree with the second last sentence and I know I'm not alone and I know you never liked the HD800 except a a very few amp's you've heard them off and I've compared the lot of Lambda's I had pitted against my HD800 before I sold everything off.
I don't doubt the fact that the Lambda's are capable of delivering great detail and separation on complex passages and I think you missed the point of what I was saying. What I was saying is, the treble etch on most Lambda's produces more than what there is, the Omega 1's which I owned for not too long can be discerned as being bright, cold and analytical sounding as hell but it sure doesn't have this infamous Lambda treble etch a lot of other long time Stax posters said there is, heck I didn't know that it was called the treble etch but I always did wonder why the treble is allevated a few db's higher than the rest of the sound spectrum but the treble is definitely upped more than a level or so that the source actually calls for.
I don't know if you seen some of the old posted measurements (not Tyll's) in the Stax 1 thread, but the old series Lambda's have more "upper peaks" along the treble range more so than the only flaw that can be commonly be picked out of the HD800 which is the sharp spike starting from 5k to 6/7k, purrins mods backed up by plots and measurements extensively iron out most of this with the mods on his forum, though still a bright sounding headphone for sure.
The last bit is although the Lambda's are fantastic performers but are far from being neutral, imo if the HD800 had none of that treble nonsense and a tad bit more lows it would be a stellar performer. The ethereal sound from the Stax electrostats is what makes users perceive there is more than to offer from what the source has, once you get over this ethereal sound you really start seeing the flaws the headphones, i.e the 009 having an annoyingly bright tonality is one example, but people say the upstream source is very important. If a 380D and the AR DAC8 is not enough for the 009 than I don't know what is.
My 2c. But we can agree to disagree.
Edited by DefQon - 10/5/13 at 4:05ampost #580 of 107610/5/13 at 4:20am
Again, no experience with the LNB or older Lambdas, but my SR-307 has noticeably less treble than I'm used to (coming from recent experience with the DT 880, W3000ANV, current experience with the HE60, et al).
Though the comments are making me think twice about revisiting the HD 800...post #581 of 107610/5/13 at 6:06ampost #582 of 107610/5/13 at 6:49amThread StarterAs a rule of thumb, Electrostats will typically have less distortion than a Dynamic.
Hard to really compare apples with apples, but typically Electrostats will have an order of magnitude less distortion than dynamics.
In a dynamic driver the voice ciol is directly driven, the cone just follows along.
In an Electrostatic driver, the panel is driven directly.post #583 of 107610/5/13 at 7:33ampost #584 of 107610/5/13 at 12:10pm
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