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Recomend me a 'good' entry level tube headphone amp. - Page 2

post #16 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mshenay View Post

Sunrise is a Hybrid tube is it not, go with something like an Indeed G3 or Bravo V2 or actually... I'm selling my  12ua7 Millet Starving Student Amp [Details here http://www.pmillett.com/starving.htm] for around $70 Shipped within the US. I'm including two sets of Tubes as well. clear top RCAS and Mullards. The amp has a low and High gain feature AND if you like it. THEN get something like a Little Dot 3 or Sunrise, as I paid $100 and for $70 it's an even better priced Starter Tube amp! As the Tube sound is a distinct one! Try a CHEAP one first to see if you even enjoy the warmth and presentation of tubes! 

It is a hybrid yes. I've owned a modded bravo v2 for a short time and the Sunrise is far far better than a bravo v2. It's more in the league of the Schiit Lyr. 

post #17 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAZRr1275 View Post

It is a hybrid yes. I've owned a modded bravo v2 for a short time and the Sunrise is far far better than a bravo v2. It's more in the league of the Schiit Lyr. 

But the Sun Rise is not intro, I'm really getting sick of these freaking Sunrise fan bois. Yea they are better than the Bravo v2. Most hyrbids amps are but oh WAIT, the PRICE

 

For me my intro Tube was an Indeed G3, I got it DIRT cheap. And it was a GREAT intro Tube, my Next Tube was a 12ua7 Millet Max Starving Student, with a Gain Switch, it was even BETTER than the G3, and my NEXT hybrid tube is a Little Dot 1+ [with $200 worth of extra tubes] which should be another step forward. All of these are example of intro tubes [well the Little Dot 1+ is more of the AFTER your intro Tube tube, in the same league as the Sunrise I suppose]

 

SO, Get an Indeed G3 or a Bravo, don't WASTE your money on a Sunrise UNTIL you decide you like the Cheaper tubes, because if you find you DON'T like tubes. You'd have purcahsed a $200 tube for nothing. At least with the little Bravos n Indeed G3s, you can Mod them to high hell! Which makes them a great INTRO into DIY Tubes as well! 

post #18 of 227

Little Dot 1+ isn't reviewing as well as the Indeed G3 leave alone Sunrise II.

 

Sunrise II competes with Little Dot MK IV from what I have read online. Little Dot 1+ is close to a Bravo V2 or Indeed G3 or somewhere in between.

post #19 of 227

It is a known fact that Little Dot MK IV, Lyr and Sunrise II are comparable. So unless you think 1+ comes in the same league as Lyr and Little Dot MK IV :)

post #20 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by techboy View Post

It is a known fact that Little Dot MK IV, Lyr and Sunrise II are comparable. So unless you think 1+ comes in the same league as Lyr and Little Dot MK IV :)

Sun Rise two is a hybrid amp, the Little Dot MK IV [which is not that nice after the Release of the SE] is a full tube, so they are comparing simmilary within Price Points, not to say the Sun Rise is not a good amp it's just not a full Tube. And my gawd you Sun Rise fan bois are a pain in the neck. It's not an intro Tube, and secondly the Little Dot 1+ needs... hmm NON stock tubes -.- with Stock tubes yea it sounds horrible. Ppl get it assume Stock is worth keeping, hear the stock tubes decide IT SUCKS, then sell it. Where as with some nice $30 $40 tubes it starts to out preform the Sun Rise 2. Not to mention the Little Dot 1+ boosts enough current to drive planars very well, in addition to being usable even with Stax Electro Stats, ofc all of this without Stock Tubes -.-. In the Little Dot 1+ is optimized for high-current, low-impedance headphones like planar dynamics and Grados, The only headphones that really need all of that power to be driven are low-impedance headphones like the ones made by Audeze and HiFiMan, and the other tube amps will never be able to drive those anywhere near their potential because their power output drops, not rises, as impedance goes down, because they have lots and lots of volts (volume) but not a whole lot of current (which is what drives the headphone and makes it sound properly amped). The Little Dot 1+ is the only unbalanced Little Dot tube amp that is likely going to do a competent job of amping both a 32ohm headphone and a 250ohm headphone.

 

So once again, the Little Dot 1+ is a very versitile Hybrid Tube. That being said I still want a full balanced tube myself for higher Impedance cans. 

 

Again, ANYTHING in the $100 range is a good intro Tube, as Tubes are great amps but they are different from Solid States, they do different things in an audio chain so depending on what kinds of headphones you like a tube may not be as enjoyable to you as a solid state amp would b. 

 

So until you know wheather you like Solid State or Tube, it's best to stick with a lower priced Tube. Heck I sold my 12ua7 Millet for $70 yesterday! So some one has gotten a heck of a bargin. I even included 2 sets of very differnt tubes. The great thing about CHEAP tube amps is they allow you to grasp the importance of Tube Rolling, and how much the tube it self REALLY changes the amp. That might not be an appealing though to you, on my Millet, I would Power it down and Plug n Play swap the tubes about every 2 days depending on what cans I liked, in addition with Tube amps the Fun or Burden can be finding the right tube for you! So instead of Spending $200 on an amp with a cheap tube, spend about half that and take your other $100 and go buy some tubes to really get the real fun and "flavor" of using and owning a tube amp. Those Extra tubes are going to make your rather un significant amp sound wonderful! As opposed to using the stock tubes in a better built amp! 

post #21 of 227
I know ld iv is a tube amp but comparable in performance to sr ii smily_headphones1.gif
post #22 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by techboy View Post

I know ld iv is a tube amp but comparable in performance to sr ii smily_headphones1.gif

Comparable in that all it has going for it is Voltage Swing, I don't know about the Sunrise II, the my Indeed G3, whic features a simillar design to the Sunrise II was all Volts, the current wasn't to great... I sold it after a while[and I was using Aftermarket, 12ua7 Clear Top RCAs]

 

So that being said, for some one who would most likely not have a great selection of high impedance cans, something with a little more current or at the vary least adjustable gain, would work better imo. Ofc the Indeed G3 did not have either of those things, but heck I liked it so I kept going.

 

But The Sunrise just has that Voltage Swing performance, and with aftermarket tubes I'm sure it will sound even better, but it's not money well spent on your first tube imo! 

post #23 of 227

Sunrise is the same design as G3 but much better than even a modded G3. This is a known fact.

post #24 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by techboy View Post

Sunrise is the same design as G3 but much better than even a modded G3. This is a known fact.

I agree 100%, but that design has it's limits. While in Sure the build quality and sound is much better. Trust me That designs not the best, and I think he'd have more fun rolling tubes into a G3 than having one REALLY great stock Sun Rise, now let's assume he likes the G3, I'm pretty sure he can turn around and sell it easy for %80 maybe more of what he paid, and then buy a Sun Rise. Plus to REALLY break even, what ever tubes he purchased that he was not crazy about [for personal reasons] could also be sold with the Tube.

 

That's what I did, and I enjoyed going from the crappy G3 [I remember spending like 6 hours trying to figure out how to adjust the bias xD so I could roll tubes. That was a fun and crazy night] then when I got my 12ua7 Millet Max, all that I had learned from bearing with the G3 made the Millet's design so much more enjoyable. Trust me those crappy amps are great starter amps, they are a lot of fun to toy with and for learning some Tube amp owner basics. When you upgrade from one of those to something like the Sun Rise II, you'll appreciate that Sun Rise II more because you had the G3 or Bravo. They are just fun amps, a great bang for ur dollar! 

post #25 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by techboy View Post

It is a known fact that Little Dot MK IV, Lyr and Sunrise II are comparable. So unless you think 1+ comes in the same league as Lyr and Little Dot MK IV :)

Probably NOT eh?

 

The Sunrise II with it's 130mW / 90mW output would have quite the struggle driving my DT880 Pro's let alone a 600Ω headphone.

At least the LD I+ dumps out 150mW into 300Ω...

 

And besides that, all the Garage1217 stuff looks like it was made in somebodys basement, that plexiglass is just so cheap looking.

 

Finally as the OP states:


Quote:

I only have low impedance phones at the moment, but somewhere down the line (<12 months) I'd quite like to try some higher impedance phones (I'm contemplating dt880 600s for Christmas).

 

 

So STOP recommending gear that is NOT useable or at least READ the whole thread. mad.gif

post #26 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollDragon View Post

Probably NOT eh?

 

The Sunrise II with it's 130mW / 90mW output would have quite the struggle driving my DT880 Pro's let alone a 600Ω headphone.

At least the LD I+ dumps out 150mW into 300Ω...

 

And besides that, all the Garage1217 stuff looks like it was made in somebodys basement, that plexiglass is just so cheap looking.

 

Finally as the OP states:

 

So STOP recommending gear that is NOT useable or at least READ the whole thread. mad.gif

Thanks Troll, as I've said like a dozen times. The SunRise II not that great. Get out of here with that crap. 

 

OP get your self a cheapo Millet Max Starving Student Amp, one with a gain switch would work really well with low Gain cans, and in a year or so save up for something nicer, like the LD MK IV and a pair of Byer Dt 880 600ohms

 

In addition, I HAVE heard of people driving Dt 990s out of an Indeed G3 [and trust me that thing shoves some serious Voltage] but as I have told me self many times, if I'm going to get a $300 pair of 600 ohms can, it's worth also getting an equally high quality amp to drive them. Till then my Dr 880 Pro 250's enjoy the Hybrid Tubes! 

 

There is also once again, the Little Dot 1, which should drive low impedance and Middle [250 300 ohm] cans sufficently well. Not sure what Tubes are compitable with both the LD IV and 1+ 

post #27 of 227

1. The Sunrise II is meant for headphones of 32-300 ohm. 

Horizon is meant for headphones 300-600 ohm.

Ember is meant for headphones 16-600 ohm.

So please learn to do your home work first :)

 

2. Neither of you has actually heard a Sunrise II. And no review says that a Sunrise II isn't at a par with a Lyr. All reviews claim Lyr and Sunrise II to be comparable with the Lyr having much more power. This problem has been solved with Ember. So unless you believe even the Lyr is crap :P

 

3. Since you admit you haven't heard the SR II, and those who have heard all amps based on the same design admin that SR II is light years ahead of the cheaper amps, so your say doesn't hold any weight compared to theirs. :D

 

4. If you hear a SR II or Ember, then I will take your opinion as seriously as those who have heard Indeed as well as SR II.

 

5. Lovely Cube and Lehmann are the same design. However, those who have tried both maintain the fact that the difference in performance is night and day and that the sound isn't even slightly similar. I know this because I read extensively about each and every product I am interested in. Nobody who has tried both considered the Lovely Cube to be worth calling a clone. Though at its price point its one of the better buys.

 

6. Just in the same way, the same design means zilch. SR II is supposed to be significantly ahead of Bravo and Indeed.

 

7. If you want to run 16-600 ohm headphones then a Bravo or Indeed will do fine, a SR II won't. Either get an Ember for that. Or if you want to run 32-300 ohm with more emphasis on sub 120 ohm headphones, then a SR II will be better than both Bravo and Indeed. For those headphones you will get performance similar to a Lyr but much less headroom and power.

post #28 of 227

After further research:

 

It is possible that I+ is a bit better than Indeed G3. I am not sure.

 

However, it definitely doesn't come in the same league as SR II which is close to a Lyr in most aspects and better in some aspects, and much worse only in terms of power. Enough lyr vs sr ii comparisons confirm this.

 

So a SR II is definitely a step up from I+, however, I+ might be better than G3, of which I have no clue.

post #29 of 227

http://www.head-fi.org/t/601207/project-sunrise-ii-kit-review

Originally Posted by Misterrogers View Post
 

I've spent the last couple of days listening to my HE-500's with Project Sunrise II. Compared to Lyr, Lyr has the following advantages:

* Power. While PSII is in no way underpowered for these headphones, extra power equals extra headroom. This to me, translates to slightly more air and space.

* Slightly wider sound stage.

 

Compared to Lyr, PSII has the following advantages:

* Slightly better detail.

* Slightly deeper sound stage.

 

Overall, with HE-500's I could switch to PSII full time and not miss too much.
 


 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/670398/upgrading-from-project-sunrise-2-he-500

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by proid View Post

Lol, I think you should upgrade the dac first, it's the bottleneck of your system now. For 1000$ you wont get much better than the PSII but even Odac is much better than the udac.

 
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheaphifi View Post

Schiit Lyr is more powerfull than PSII but in term of quality of sound i doubt that the Lyr could be a serious upgrade.

Get a better DAC with dedicated power (not usb powered) and you will get a far better sound in your headphones.

An Audio-Gd NFB-3.33 cost less than 400$ (shipped from china), with this kind of DAC you can't be disappointed !
 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheaphifi View Post

 

I don't knock any hardware because they're made in USA, PSII is made in USA too and when i'm buying a product i prefer to buy in USA or Europe;

 

 

I've listened the Project Sunrise with a stock Fostex T40rp, and with a vintage AKG K340, i've friends who compared both Schiit Lyr and my Project Sunrise with the same headphones (vintage K340) and with the same source (Dac Matrix mini-i) and although the Lyr was more powerfull than the Sunrise, it was a little brighter in the highs (not really harsch but it was noticeable), the Lyr was just a little more fatiguing for long listening sessions, but the sound is really in the same league.
 
IMO there's not enough difference between the PSII and the Lyr to justify the investment, i don't say that the Schiit Lyr don't worth the 449$, it's a great amp, but when you already own a Project Sunrise II it's not really an upgrade.

 

The main reason I ended up selling my Meier Corda Opera was because I slightly preferred the sound of the PS2 

 

 

post #30 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by techboy View Post

After further research:

 

It is possible that I+ is a bit better than Indeed G3. I am not sure.

 

However, it definitely doesn't come in the same league as SR II which is close to a Lyr in most aspects and better in some aspects, and much worse only in terms of power. Enough lyr vs sr ii comparisons confirm this.

 

Have you even heard either amp? If so what tubes in the LYR? What tubes in the SR? Tube rolling in the LYR turn it into a beast of a good sounding amp.


Edited by Fearless1 - 8/16/13 at 8:56am
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