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MrSpeakers Alpha Dog Revealed! - The World's First Production 3D-Printed Headphones - Page 302

post #4516 of 7953

I'm definitely not speaking for Dan here, but I think the current cable is made with the idea that the Alpha Dog will be used in homes and studios rather than for portable use.  A portable style cable while desirable for some is probably an expensive option for relatively small batch production.  How many shorter and lighter portable cables will be preferred over longer and heavier cable?  I'll pick heavy and long over short for home use.  As for the connector, it is easy to attach and detach.  Can be purchased for less than $20 and a hassle if you have to import them outside of the US.  But, no conspiracy.  An industry standard would be nice but not going to happen.

   

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by TenMoonsNorth View Post

 

Sigh...

 

This was exactly what I feared with the Alpha Dogs. Obscure connector, garden hose cabling and the only options being expensive cabling from others. Perhaps I'd call myself a conspiracy theorist but it's almost as if this was a gesture from MrSpeakers to DIY cable makers and frankly a gesture I don't appreciate for portable use on a $600 headphone. I'll guess I'll have to see if I can make my own cable.

post #4517 of 7953

Hi...  We've had a lot of request for a 3.5mm cable. 

 

One consideration we have is to use the current cable, with a 3' tail and an 18" Y split.  The cable would be the same but shorter.  Doing a lighter and thinner cable is possible.  Either way we'd sell this is an optional add-on.

 

Using a thinner cable will take more time.  For those who have the phones would you consider the current cable a good solution?  Your feedback will help our design best meet your needs.

post #4518 of 7953
Quote: WNBC (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by WNBC View Post
I'm definitely not speaking for Dan here, but I think the current cable is made with the idea that the Alpha Dog will be used in homes and studios rather than for portable use.  A portable style cable while desirable for some is probably an expensive option for relatively small batch production.  How many shorter and lighter portable cables will be preferred over longer and heavier cable?  I'll pick heavy and long over short for home use.  As for the connector, it is easy to attach and detach.  Can be purchased for less than $20 and a hassle if you have to import them outside of the US.  But, no conspiracy.  An industry standard would be nice but not going to happen.

 

For home sound there are many better headphones out there. It's the closed, portable space that is severely lacking good, neutral headphones with decent/large soundstages. I'm sure that for many this is why they were excited about the Alpha Dogs to begin with.

Even for home use I don't use heavy cables because unless I can hear EMI and microphonics it's not going to be an improvement.

 

Now I have to consider importing an adaptor and building a cable simply so I have something shorter and more lightweight for portable usage.

 

Quote: MrSpeakers (Click to show)
Quote:

Hi...  We've had a lot of request for a 3.5mm cable. 

 

One consideration we have is to use the current cable, with a 3' tail and an 18" Y split.  The cable would be the same but shorter.  Doing a lighter and thinner cable is possible.  Either way we'd sell this is an optional add-on.

 

Using a thinner cable will take more time.  For those who have the phones would you consider the current cable a good solution?  Your feedback will help our design best meet your needs.

 

 

A lighter, thinner cable is exactly what is needed because the main usage of such a cable would be for portable usage.


Edited by TenMoonsNorth - 12/16/13 at 8:19am
post #4519 of 7953

It would be nice if Dan made some small connectors that went from his connector to a 3.5mm jack for portable use.

 

however considering he gives the part number and pin-out on his website, I doubt it's a conspiracy for the after market cable industry.

post #4520 of 7953
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenMoonsNorth View Post
 

 

For home sound there are many better headphones out there. It's the closed, portable space that is severely lacking good, neutral headphones with decent/large soundstages.

 

Thank you for speaking for every use case.

 

I work from home, and I have three pairs of headphones (I will when the AD's arrive).

 

M50's - portable use

Sony A900's - For all day home use when I am alone

Alpha Dogs - For when my wife is either in the same room, or when she is watching TV on the other room, and I want the isolation at home.

 

Tell me, for the third option, what's the better choice?

post #4521 of 7953
Quote: (Click to show)
 
Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
 

 

Thank you for speaking for every use case.

 

I work from home, and I have three pairs of headphones (I will when the AD's arrive).

 

M50's - portable use

Sony A900's - For all day home use when I am alone

Alpha Dogs - For when my wife is either in the same room, or when she is watching TV on the other room, and I want the isolation at home.

 

Tell me, for the third option, what's the better choice?

 

I don't speak for every use case. I'm speaking for a use case that has been ignored. I can't believe you'd release a $600 closed headphone with better imaging and soundstage, in a market that has a severe lack of such headphones, and not realise that perhaps some people may want to use it portably.

post #4522 of 7953
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenMoonsNorth View Post
 

 

I don't speak for every use case. I'm speaking for a use case that has been ignored. I can't believe you'd release a $600 closed headphone with better imaging and soundstage, in a market that has a severe lack of such headphones, and not realise that perhaps some people may want to use it portably.

 

Well,  You already can use it portably. what you're asking for is a cable that makes it more convenient. If convenience is a top priority, I am not sure why you would use the AD's in the first place. They are not a very convenient option for portable use, even if they had a more convenient cable.

 

However as you can see from Dan's post above, he is all for making the cable, if he feels enough people really would buy it.

post #4523 of 7953

Perhaps rather than building the whole cable it may be easier to make an SN-8-4(P) to 3.5mm adaptor and then you can just plug in a Y cable like this.

 


Edited by TenMoonsNorth - 12/16/13 at 9:32am
post #4524 of 7953
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenMoonsNorth View Post
 

Perhaps rather than building the whole cable it may be easier to make SN-8-4(P) to 3.5mm adaptor and then you can just plug in a Y cable like this.

 

 

Yea. That was my suggestion 5-6 posts up.

 

However Dan does not have to do it. Some other company could sell them. Anyone out there who has a cable company listening? :)

post #4525 of 7953
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans030390 View Post
 

 

I don't sit there and listen to the harmonic distortion products of a 1KHz sine wave, but that test, while basic and not music itself, does say a lot about the harmonic distortion that will be reproduced during music.

What you are missing is that is a circular argument.  How do you know that the test says a lot about the harmonic distortion that will be reproduced during music ?  Because you reason that it does.  You are your own validation.   It sounds like science because it has numbers and test devices, but in reality it is not scientific.

 

Quote:
 My whole point was that the T50RP driver is inexpensive, small, and just has more limitations than more expensive, more technically competent drivers that you're more likely to see in good headphones costing $1K+.

Again more circular arguments.  How do you know that the other drivers are more technically competent and have less limitations ?

 

You ignored what I said about "small", so I will repeat it again. As regarding size, I don't know of any connection between driver size and quality.  Size is generally necessary for volume/efficiency or bass.

 

Your argument seems to be "the T50RP driver is inexpensive and small, so it must be wimpy relative to drivers used in more expensive headphones".

 

The entire reason that there are so many T50RP mods by people like Dan and LFF is that the driver is capable of producing sound quality far beyond its cost. 

post #4526 of 7953

With $600 budget, I couldn't find any better closed headphone than Alpha Dog. 

post #4527 of 7953
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstuart View Post
 

What you are missing is that is a circular argument.  How do you know that the test says a lot about the harmonic distortion that will be reproduced during music ?  Because you reason that it does.  You are your own validation.   It sounds like science because it has numbers and test devices, but in reality it is not scientific.

 

Again more circular arguments.  How do you know that the other drivers are more technically competent and have less limitations ?

 

You ignored what I said about "small", so I will repeat it again. As regarding size, I don't know of any connection between driver size and quality.  Size is generally necessary for volume/efficiency or bass.

 

Your argument seems to be "the T50RP driver is inexpensive and small, so it must be wimpy relative to drivers used in more expensive headphones".

 

The entire reason that there are so many T50RP mods by people like Dan and LFF is that the driver is capable of producing sound quality far beyond its cost. 

 

Because they sound better?

 

The size of the driver obviously has a consequence on the sound, otherwise why bother to make it big or small and just make it the way it is most affordable to build with no other concerns?.

Yes, some small drivers might give you deep bass extension (in small rooms, though) but look at the other end of the spectrum: are they good at reproducing mid-range in such a configuration? The answer is most likely a big no.

 

Take the Airmotiv 4s, for instance. They have excellent mid-range and the bass feels adequate if you have no comparison and an adequate (read small) room.

But then switch to the 6s. The bass is more extended, has better punch/definition and the mid-range stays pretty much the same. Everything else stays the same.

Which one of the two would you consider the better speaker then? The 4s are very close in most area, except bass. The driver is the same technology, but obviously the bigger one is the better one here.

The bigger driver has an obvious advantage in that it has a bigger range of operation. It is what it is. This is enough to make it the better driver of the two, IMO.

 

What Dan achieved with the T50RP is probably fabulous (and this is my opinion), but I still feel the ADs lacks bass extension and tactility compared to the MDs. Same drivers, different operation. If one cannot have both at the same time, then it is safe to say that the driver's limit was reached.

Things can be pushed more by designed new cabinet (cups here). This is what happened with the ADs. Overall, they are (much) better than the MDs across the board, but out of the 100% change in sound (be it tonality or technicality) is feel """only""" 80% was for the better. Bass belongs to that 20%.

That's still a very good score here and yes, I'll say it again, the Alpha Dogs are clearly the better headphones and retain almost the same (very good) value as the MDs in a pricier segment.

post #4528 of 7953

So these must be worse than any other headphones, with worse bass - because they are so small:images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPVdXmFwTq6zPzLK1CHz9MIxXU9vKNBNXrRTBiGtEe-3hYZmbCwg 

post #4529 of 7953
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstuart View Post
 

So these must be worse than any other headphones, with worse bass - because they are so small:images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPVdXmFwTq6zPzLK1CHz9MIxXU9vKNBNXrRTBiGtEe-3hYZmbCwg 

 

Take them 1" further back and yes, they are much worse...

 

You're comparing apples to oranges here...

post #4530 of 7953
Quote:
Originally Posted by WNBC View Post

If there are improvements in newer Alpha Dog versions I'd have to declare Dan MrSpeakers a magician because I can't imagine him squeezing more performance out of this T50RP driver via cup design.

They indeed are very good especially with binaural recordings (guys, you really need to try that). But I can imagine some improvements. The cups could be made of wood, because they do sound plastic. I wonder if Dan could print wood biggrin.gif Maybe resin could be usable with 3D printing technology soon. If that ever happened I wonder what would be the price... Would that be less than 2k tongue.gif But then why to use T50RP driver, maybe better use Audeze one... Yeah, I think there is no point in improving AD and making it cost more than $600, better to go level up from here biggrin.gif
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