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Shure SE846 Impressions Thread - Page 318

post #4756 of 16769

I just had a silly thought, so anyone who owns these obviously isnt going to take them apart. But what if shure advertised the Low Pass filter tunnel to look cool and innovative design but never actually implemented it into the production and its a big conspiracy and in all of our 846s if we took it apart it would be just a big straight pipe for show :O

 

Its secretly shures big deep dirty secret because they know no one is going to go cracking into to their $1000 IEMs. 

 

</conspiracy>

post #4757 of 16769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchell4500 View Post
 

I just had a silly thought, so anyone who owns these obviously isnt going to take them apart. But what if shure advertised the Low Pass filter tunnel to look cool and innovative design but never actually implemented it into the production and its a big conspiracy and in all of our 846s if we took it apart it would be just a big straight pipe for show :O

 

Its secretly shures big deep dirty secret because they know no one is going to go cracking into to their $1000 IEMs. 

 

</conspiracy>

 

DM;sounds good

post #4758 of 16769

On a more serious note ever notice that this doesn't make sense: 

 

 

Follow the path of the mids driver. (Bottom) its little hole is not shown in the 2nd from the right panel. 

 

here is a professionally drawn diagnostic of the sound path as rendered by MS paint. 

post #4759 of 16769
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post
 

I will say that tip selection makes a huuuuuuge difference, and that would DEFINITELY change how you interpret their bass compared to the HE500 haha. Which do you stick with? In my experience, the yellow foams make the bass fall off big time, same with Comply. The silicones feel like they boost it a bit, which I'm not a big fan of but the convenience is hard to ignore. We'll see what happens when I get the SCS (they shipped today! Yee!).

I ended up with blue filter on yellow foams and found the combo the most balanced for my taste.  That should be the reason why i feel the 2 basses are not much different.  Like I said, I am not a bass head.  So anymore bass than what I am getting now with the current setup would be way too much for me.

post #4760 of 16769
Quote:
Originally Posted by koiloco View Post
 

I ended up with blue filter on yellow foams and found the combo the most balanced for my taste.  That should be the reason why i feel the 2 basses are not much different.  Like I said, I am not a bass head.  So anymore bass than what I am getting now with the current setup would be way too much for me.

 

Ooooooh yeah. Absolutely, haha. The yellows seem to have a rather profound bass-dampening effect on these, and with them in I can see how you'd say the HE500's have similar output. But that's more an effect of coloring the sound via the tips, you can see just how much more their low-end output is on the 8's. As far as my ears can tell the Shure Olives and the Westone STAR tips do the best at keeping to that sound signature. 

 

TBH I would think that if bass isn't so much your bag that you'd do better with the SE535's. Half the price and sound quite similar but with a severely tamed low-end. 

post #4761 of 16769
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeGuyDude View Post
 

 

The HE500s are... not exactly bass monsters, haha. I recall being heavily underwhelmed by them. The bass here absolutely hits harder, and it's not because of proximity, it's because it's not a big open-backed can. The bass on the 8's competes with high-end closed-back in terms of bass authority. Not like the JVC Hammers or any of those skull-thumpers, but more like the Fostex and Denons. 

 

I'll take this a step further.  I have the Fostex TH-900 I'm willing to state that the SE846 definitely has more bass authority down low, probably a couple more dB at 20 Hz.

 

The SE846 have really spoiled me.  I prefer them over every full-size headphone I've owned, including the Audeze LCD-3, Oppo PM-1, and Fostex TH-900.  A significant part of that is the way they have powerful bass without screwing up the rest of the spectrum.  I've really heard nothing like it in a full-size headphone.

post #4762 of 16769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchell4500 View Post
 

On a more serious note ever notice that this doesn't make sense: 

 

 

Follow the path of the mids driver. (Bottom) its little hole is not shown in the 2nd from the right panel. 

 

here is a professionally drawn diagnostic of the sound path as rendered by MS paint. 

Yup, it looks like it's missing a outlet that shows up on the next plate.  Possibly just a mistake on the drawing?  :blink:  Anyhow, it's an interesting filter design.  Can someone explain how that zig-zag works?  It seems to be making a long path for the low frequencies(possibly creating better phase alignment?), but in essence how does this "low pass filter" prevent early bass roll-off like the brochure says?  

 

Edit: I found a website that explains the low pass filtering:

 

Still, more drivers won’t solve the biggest issue for in-ear designs — the crossover. With hardly any space to work in, the best manufacturers can hope for is a passive crossover using miniature capacitors and resistors. While sufficient for band limiting the higher frequencies and acting as a high pass for the high and mid drivers, you would need much larger, more complicated circuitry to be able to low pass the LF driver output. With the SE846, Shure splits the response of its drivers across the 20-200Hz, 200-2000Hz, and 2-20kHz regions. But getting the response of the low-end driver isn’t that clear cut. Typically, the low-end driver will reproduce much of the mid range into the bargain and muddy up the sound.

 

Without the ability to add active circuitry, Shure had to resort to the most mechanical of filters. By welding 10 stainless steel plates together, Shure is able to carve out a four-inch long tunnel attached to the output of the low frequency driver. This essentially traps the shorter wavelengths of the unwanted mid-range frequencies and starts to rolloff the low end response above 75Hz, giving you plenty of bass and clear mid range.


Edited by SilverEars - 7/28/14 at 9:58pm
post #4763 of 16769

Well I went to the Slowdive concert last night and boy was there a lot of bass!

post #4764 of 16769
My favorite tip is the westone truefit green and black. They are the shallower than rest of the color so I can put them in really deep and be able to sleep on the side. I also find them to have one of the best bass and treble and shure olive came pretty close but looses some treble.. just a tiny bit. The comply absorb too much bass and they start to deform after 2 weeks of normal usage.
post #4765 of 16769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiowood View Post

My favorite tip is the westone truefit green and black. They are the shallower than rest of the color so I can put them in really deep and be able to sleep on the side. I also find them to have one of the best bass and treble and shure olive came pretty close but looses some treble.. just a tiny bit. The comply absorb too much bass and they start to deform after 2 weeks of normal usage.
I using the comply now, and yes I don't know why the comply deform very quickly!!! So the true fit is much more better in comfort & SQ?
post #4766 of 16769
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

Yup, it looks like it's missing a outlet that shows up on the next plate.  Possibly just a mistake on the drawing?  :blink:  Anyhow, it's an interesting filter design.  Can someone explain how that zig-zag works?  It seems to be making a long path for the low frequencies(possibly creating better phase alignment?), but in essence how does this "low pass filter" prevent early bass roll-off like the brochure says?  

 

Edit: I found a website that explains the low pass filtering:

 

Still, more drivers won’t solve the biggest issue for in-ear designs — the crossover. With hardly any space to work in, the best manufacturers can hope for is a passive crossover using miniature capacitors and resistors. While sufficient for band limiting the higher frequencies and acting as a high pass for the high and mid drivers, you would need much larger, more complicated circuitry to be able to low pass the LF driver output. With the SE846, Shure splits the response of its drivers across the 20-200Hz, 200-2000Hz, and 2-20kHz regions. But getting the response of the low-end driver isn’t that clear cut. Typically, the low-end driver will reproduce much of the mid range into the bargain and muddy up the sound.

 

Without the ability to add active circuitry, Shure had to resort to the most mechanical of filters. By welding 10 stainless steel plates together, Shure is able to carve out a four-inch long tunnel attached to the output of the low frequency driver. This essentially traps the shorter wavelengths of the unwanted mid-range frequencies and starts to rolloff the low end response above 75Hz, giving you plenty of bass and clear mid range.

 

This design actually looks reminiscent of the Bose technologies used to create big sounds from small speakers like in their subwoofers and Wave radios.

post #4767 of 16769

I had a chance to compare three different silicone tips today: the stock Shure silicones, the Westone Star silicones and the Klipsch Oval silicones. For my ear shape, the Klipsch are slightly preferrable with the Westones coming in a close second. If it weren't for the longer length of the Westones I probably would have preferred them just as many others seem to. That said, the Klipsch are a great option for others like me whose ear canals bend sharply close to the opening and can cause discomfort and also block the nozzle when using longer tips. Here are some pics showing the 3 sizes (2 pairs of each in the pack) of the Klipsch tips with the small (green) Star tip and the smallest Shure silicone as a point of reference.

 

It's hard to see exactly from the photos, but the middle Klipsch tip is just a fraction shorter than the smallest Shure tip which is why it seems to suit me so well. The walls of the Klipsch tips are about the same in thickness and suppleness as the Westones. Oh, and yes. The smallest Klipsch tips really are made for ants - they are SO small!!

post #4768 of 16769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash676 View Post
 

 

I'll take this a step further.  I have the Fostex TH-900 I'm willing to state that the SE846 definitely has more bass authority down low, probably a couple more dB at 20 Hz.

 

The SE846 have really spoiled me.  I prefer them over every full-size headphone I've owned, including the Audeze LCD-3, Oppo PM-1, and Fostex TH-900.  A significant part of that is the way they have powerful bass without screwing up the rest of the spectrum.  I've really heard nothing like it in a full-size headphone.

 

Daaaaayum. I've been okay with saying I prefer these over my Final Audio Pandoras, but over those monsters? That's nuts, man. 

 

You're definitely spot on in how crazy the response is at the 20Hz area. Obviously that's too low to be truly audible, but the pressure waves are clearly there. 

post #4769 of 16769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jensenchua View Post


I using the comply now, and yes I don't know why the comply deform very quickly!!! So the true fit is much more better in comfort & SQ?

 

I prefer the Westone true fit over any other tips so far except for the custom ones. To me, it has the best isolation, deep tight fit (not the longer ones like red, blue or orange as they stick out too much for side sleeping). I use the black and green. The true fit does not come in with SE846, but is available at Amazon. For comparison, I try walking to a gigantic air compressor which is really loud and with the true fit, it block most of the noise among olive & comply. I also get more treble out of true fit and bass are way more powerful than comply but is close to olive. The true fit feels more comfortable as the texture is smooth (not waxy like olive) and not as coarse as comply. It is denser while comply is softer. In other words, comply feels like a sponge cake (soft and hollow) while true fit feels like bread- its more dense which means more isolation. 

 

Also Comply looses bass over time. I initially thought the filter is loose but turns out comply was deforming and loosing seal.

 

Its cost $20 bucks at Amazon.


Edited by Audiowood - 7/29/14 at 10:07am
post #4770 of 16769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiowood View Post
 

 

I prefer the Westone true fit over any other tips so far except for the custom ones. To me, it has the best isolation, deep tight fit (not the longer ones like red, blue or orange as they stick out too much for side sleeping). I use the black and green. The true fit does not come in with SE846, but is available at Amazon. For comparison, I try walking to a gigantic air compressor which is really loud and with the true fit, it block most of the noise among olive & comply. I also get more treble out of true fit and bass are way more powerful than comply but is close to olive. The true fit feels more comfortable as the texture is smooth (not waxy like olive) and not as coarse as comply. It is denser while comply is softer. In other words, comply feels like a sponge cake (soft and hollow) while true fit feels like bread- its more dense which means more isolation. 

 

Also Comply looses bass over time. I initially thought the filter is loose but turns out comply was deforming and loosing seal.

 

Its cost $20 bucks at Amazon.

Thanks Audiowood, I'll definitely will try it!!!

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