Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Shure SE846 Impressions Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Shure SE846 Impressions Thread - Page 100

post #1486 of 5822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave74 View Post
 

 

Same here lol... My next most expensive hp's are my HE-500's and AD's, I always thought a pair of LCD-2's or LCD-3's would be my next step.  I just ordered these on a spur of the moment decision after reading all of the great reviews here.  Plus, I did want a pair of IEM's for a little bit better portability, I just didn't think I would spend $1000 on them as I usually prefer over the ear hp's.

lol, my most expensive is the HE-400s

But I need new portables, hopefully I wont be disappointed 

post #1487 of 5822
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

Each side need + and -  

 

There are L and R.  Each can be driven with a separate amp(balanced).  Typical connector is same ground for both L and R(not balanced).  So, ask yourself if it does or does not have balanced input, your confusion lies there.

 

SilverEars, where L an R come from separate amps that is called Stereo, or a bit more basic dual monoblocks. This is not 'balanced'.

 

To keep it simple, balanced cables uses two separate signals on each side (+L,-L,+R,-R) to help reduce noise introduced by cables acting as aerials.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElDeejei View Post
 

Piercer, I am very interested in the answer to this too! I ordered the ak240 with SE846's as well and mine should be in tomorrow! I think that this would be great question for the customer service section for the people that make these custom cables for the SE846. Specifically persons like Drew from Moon Audio.Right now, it seems that this is like making a new connection for something that wasn't intended for in the 1st place. SilverEars if I am understanding Piercer's question correctly this has nothing to do with amps just a the mechanics behind a balanced cable from the IEM (SE846) to the balanced port of a DAP (AK240)

 

I have asked Drew, but will probably have to wait for an answer - will keep you posted.

post #1488 of 5822
Quote:
Originally Posted by piercer View Post

Sorry to drag this subject out again, but I am having issues understanding the advantage of using a balanced cable with the SE846's. For balanced cables to work properly both ends must have balanced connections. The 'receiving end (in this case the IEMs, should subtract the cold signal from the hot and create a signal that is twice as strong without a lot of the noise

Signal inside IEM = (Signal + NoiseFromCable) - (-Signal+NoiseFromCable) = Signal + NoiseFromCable + Signal - NoseFromCable = 2xSignal

My issue is that if the SE846's don't have balanced input, then how does the maths above work with them - there is nowhere to feed in the cold signal to them is there? If I am wrong does a balanced cable improve the sound for SE846s?

The reason I ask is that I have an AK240 and SE846 combo and would love to think that I can improve the sound even more by using balanced cables - but I need to understand the science first!

As an owner of two balanced amps (RSA Protector and Lightning) and having demoed at least a half dozen more, once you go balanced you will never want to use single output again. Instead of a left-ground and right-ground balanced is wired left-left and right-right.

A balanced amp gives you twice the power and at least for RSA balanced amps a absolutely black background with no hiss. With a balanced amp, the sound stage becomes truly 3D holographic with greater clarity and punch. The benefits of a balanced amp is why iRiver included one built into in the AK240.

If you want to read more, I would suggest you check out the Lightning or SR-71B Appreciation Threads (to name two) here at Head-Fi or PM Jamato as I think he has tried more balanced amps that I have had hot meals.
Edited by spook76 - 3/6/14 at 3:31am
post #1489 of 5822

Spook more or less nailed it.  

 

Anything with two pin input can be wired balanced.  Ground gets wired as the negative channel and boom balanced.  I personally prefer to keep balanced amps to large amps.  To get four channels into a portable case they pretty much have to be opamps followed by buffers on the "high end".  I'd rather see the space used for a better single ended amp than more channels of a simple amp.  

 

The down side is any internal noise is also doubled, output impedance is doubled.  But as mentioned, voltage is doubled, slew is doubled, external noises are cancelled.

post #1490 of 5822

Do these Shure SE846 require a good DAC + AMP? My Shure SE535 only really shines with a good audio chain while Shure SRH 1840 sounds great no matter how bad the audio chain is. 

post #1491 of 5822

Yes?  Not much point buying the 846 if you plan to pair with say a $20 MP3 player. 

post #1492 of 5822

Depends on what the $20 mp3 player is.  It could be Sansa clip.  I personally think you need a amp with it, it's not as sensitive as TG334 or the 535. One big difference from 535 is that 535 will not differ between phone/portable media player and desktop amp.


Edited by SilverEars - 3/6/14 at 10:52am
post #1493 of 5822
I phone 5 is fine, hpa8 better use common sense spend as little and as much as you wish. Frankly if you have a great pair of over ears is more important in this decision, the range within 846 is less than more dynamic 3d cans.
post #1494 of 5822

I really don't think it requires an amp. According to innerfidelity, a measily 0..02 mW will cause it to pump out 90 db (that's 0.00002 Watts so there's no confusion) so the only advantage you should get from an amp is elimination of the slight hiss you hear on some sources, or possibly messing with the equalizer settings (like those amps that give you bass boost).

post #1495 of 5822
Quote:
Originally Posted by ag8908 View Post

I really don't think it requires an amp. According to innerfidelity, a measily 0..02 mW will cause it to pump out 90 db (that's 0.00002 Watts so there's no confusion) so the only advantage you should get from an amp is elimination of the slight hiss you hear on some sources, or possibly messing with the equalizer settings (like those amps that give you bass boost).

The use of an amplifier is not just about making it louder. With a inexpensive amp the use is simply to drive difficult cans which the 846 is not. You are correct that the 846 can be driven well from almost any source.

My use of the RSA Lightning had nothing whatsoever to do with greater power. As any band sound engineer can tell you, if you have a great amp, you turn the source down and use the amp to carry the load to the speakers. With the Lightning or any other good balanced amp pushing the sound, you get greater clarity, PRaT and a soundstage that is breathtaking.
post #1496 of 5822
Quote:
Originally Posted by spook76 View Post


The use of an amplifier is not just about making it louder. With a inexpensive amp the use is simply to drive difficult cans which the 846 is not. You are correct that the 846 can be driven well from almost any source.

My use of the RSA Lightning had nothing whatsoever to do with greater power. As any band sound engineer can tell you, if you have a great amp, you turn the source down and use the amp to carry the load to the speakers. With the Lightning or any other good balanced amp pushing the sound, you get greater clarity, PRaT and a soundstage that is breathtaking.


I really don't want to start this discussion again in this thread, but that's scientifically impossible. An amp that doesn't mess with the equalizer settings, or adulterate the sound to create some other auditory effect (like that "virtual surround" feature you see sometimes), can't create clarity etc. that didn't exist in the first place. And if you wanted to adulterate the sound, the DAC has a better chance of doing that, relative to an amp. But please don't let me stop you and enjoy all the "clarify, PRaT and soundstage."


Edited by ag8908 - 3/6/14 at 11:37am
post #1497 of 5822

When you measure amps, the amps get's non-linear as more amping is done.  The non-linear is in the frequency response on the load.  The best amps are the ones that is very linear of all frequency ranges as you amp up the load.  How's this science for ya?  Any amp can raise the volume, a good amp will scale all frequencies well to keep the output neutral.

post #1498 of 5822
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

When you measure amps, the amps get's non-linear as more amping is done.  The non-linear is in the frequency response on the load.  The best amps are the ones that is very linear of all frequency ranges as you amp up the load.  How's this science for ya?  Any amp can raise the volume, a good amp will scale all frequencies well to keep the output neutral.


That's just a function of what you define as "baseline." The amp you think is neutral might in fact be V-shaped, and that might be why you like it.

 

Any way, I'm not addressing any more posts on amps otherwise it will hijack the thread. But I do think it's a huge waste of money to spend hundreds of dollars on an amp for your Iphone etc., especially since it's another thing you have to carry, when you're driving a headphone that needs so little power you could probably use a solar powered amplifier to drive it. If you want to carry around something big, just get a Note 3 or G Flex. At least then you'll have the advantage of the screen, and those don't cost that much more than some of these amps!

post #1499 of 5822

If you paid $1k for headphones of potential, and iphone doesn't help it output the $1k headphones to it's potential.  Why would you buy a $1k headphones?  Just get a 535 and there is no difference between iphone and a better amped source.

 

If you have the Objective combo(DAC/Amp), try it in comparison to iphone.  Iphone has horrible FR, it's thin, it's emphasizes high frequencies.  Probably to make people think it sounds clear.


Edited by SilverEars - 3/6/14 at 11:50am
post #1500 of 5822
Quote:
Originally Posted by ag8908 View Post


I really don't want to start this discussion again in this thread, but that's scientifically impossible. An amp that doesn't mess with the equalizer settings, or adulterate the sound to create some other auditory effect (like that "virtual surround" feature you see sometimes), can't create clarity etc. that didn't exist in the first place. And if you wanted to adulterate the sound, the DAC has a better chance of doing that, relative to an amp. But please don't let me stop you and enjoy all the "clarify, PRaT and soundstage."

One question Mr. Wizard, do you actually own a balanced amp or have extensively listened to one? If not please refain for commenting from a position of complete ignorance. Better yet, go onto the SR-71B forum and tell us all that we are insane and there is no difference between balanced and single ended. Or call Ray Samuels and tell him he is a snake oil salesman.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Shure SE846 Impressions Thread