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FiiO E12DIY Limited Edition Version---DIY your own sound ! - Page 93

post #1381 of 2221
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

 

Also I have received the Silmic II, along with Nichicon MUSES ES and BlackGate NX Hi-Q from previous LOD project. Now I am waiting for some Wima and Vishay PP film caps to come, as well as AVX OxiCap. Also ordered some pin socket, which I hope to solder in for the caps for future cap rolling. After that I think I am pretty much done with all the mod.

 

What conclusion did you reach while swapping caps?

Did you play only with brands or with values too? 

post #1382 of 2221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Rockwell View Post
 

 

What conclusion did you reach while swapping caps?

Did you play only with brands or with values too? 

 

Just some of the obvious: film caps tends to sound sharper, more detailed but also edgier with a flatter image. Electrolytic are more euphonic and musical, with a good layer in image but tends to have lesser defined detail. OxiCap tends to be right between the two, but closer to film caps. It is also worth noting that film caps tend to sound alike, where electrolytic have more variance between them. For example, the difference between Nichicon muse, Silmic II and BlackGate NX Hi-Q is quite noticeable.

post #1383 of 2221
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
 

 

Just some of the obvious: film caps tends to sound sharper, more detailed but also edgier with a flatter image. Electrolytic are more euphonic and musical, with a good layer in image but tends to have lesser defined detail. OxiCap tends to be right between the two, but closer to film caps. It is also worth noting that film caps tend to sound alike, where electrolytic have more variance between them. For example, the difference between Nichicon muse, Silmic II and BlackGate NX Hi-Q is quite noticeable.

 

Yes. I noticed that when I switched from WIMA to Elna Tonerex that came in the little metal box with the E12DIY the things got warmer and with more bass and less detail.

 

Did you change to a different value of the caps?

In your opinion, which caps you liked best to go with MUSES01 and HA-5002 combo?

post #1384 of 2221
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMax99 View Post

Love the look of the gold colour! wink.gif

Yeah me too!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by K.T. View Post
 

 

Get one of each! :beyersmile:

Short of poisoning DMax99, I am also very tempted to get the Silver E12DIY lol!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacky599r View Post
 

How different is the sound compared to a regular FiiO E12? 

I would say it is just that little bit brighter with good bass as compared to the standard E12 with much reduced hiss. The hiss part is the greatest improvement IMO.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
 

 

I'll say E12 is near top-tier that can compete with just about any portable amp around the $250 mark while E12DIY is the top-tier amp that can compete with portable amp of any price range.

Yes I agree on that but I wouldnt say it performs exactly as per the really high end amps but it is close though. I am very surprised and happy with the E12DIY's performance and it is really value for money considering the performance. One more thing about both the standard E12 and the E12DIY is the build quality, it is well made and feels very sturdy as compared to some amps of a higher price range which is impressive.

post #1385 of 2221
Quote:
Originally Posted by delrosa81 View Post

 

Yes I agree on that but I wouldnt say it performs exactly as per the really high end amps but it is close though. I am very surprised and happy with the E12DIY's performance and it is really value for money considering the performance. One more thing about both the standard E12 and the E12DIY is the build quality, it is well made and feels very sturdy as compared to some amps of a higher price range which is impressive.

 

Which amps would you say out-perform the DIY?

post #1386 of 2221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loquah View Post
 

 

Which amps would you say out-perform the DIY?


I do not have that much experience with that many equipment but I think the V Moda Verza and the Pico DAC USB AMP is just that bit better than the DIY, I do not know how to describe but just sound more musical in that sense but I have to emphasize though, my E12 DIY is fully in its original state, have yet to swap out any chips and just burnt in say maybe 10 hours or less. Build quality wise, both the V Moda and the Pico are very well made too. They have been used awhile by my friends so I guess fully burnt in or so. I really like the form factor of the shadow red of the V Moda though :)

 

I would really like to try out the Centrance HiFi M8 and Ray Samuels SR-71 as they seem to be rated highly in forums. I am also considering to get the Cypher Labs CLAP too as it seems pretty well rated for now :)

post #1387 of 2221
Quote:
Originally Posted by delrosa81 View Post
 


I do not have that much experience with that many equipment but I think the V Moda Verza and the Pico DAC USB AMP is just that bit better than the DIY, I do not know how to describe but just sound more musical in that sense but I have to emphasize though, my E12 DIY is fully in its original state, have yet to swap out any chips and just burnt in say maybe 10 hours or less. Build quality wise, both the V Moda and the Pico are very well made too. They have been used awhile by my friends so I guess fully burnt in or so. I really like the form factor of the shadow red of the V Moda though :)

 

I would really like to try out the Centrance HiFi M8 and Ray Samuels SR-71 as they seem to be rated highly in forums. I am also considering to get the Cypher Labs CLAP too as it seems pretty well rated for now :)

 

I haven't heard those either, but would definitely suggest that you try some different chip combinations before deciding that the DIY is not on par as the stock configuration is not it's peak configuration IMO. To me, the stock setup reaches about 60-70% of the amp's full potential based on what I hear with the OPA1611 / LME49600 or LME49990 / HA-5002 combos and that's before we even get to OPA627 / MUSES02 configurations

post #1388 of 2221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loquah View Post
 

 

I haven't heard those either, but would definitely suggest that you try some different chip combinations before deciding that the DIY is not on par as the stock configuration is not it's peak configuration IMO. To me, the stock setup reaches about 60-70% of the amp's full potential based on what I hear with the OPA1611 / LME49600 or LME49990 / HA-5002 combos and that's before we even get to OPA627 / MUSES02 configurations


Yeah I am indeed considering to do some swapping, I read that Muses01 and Muses02 are amazing op amps and is now trying to find out where to get authentic ones. Im not very technically inclined so I would like to ask, if we match chips that are so good, will the sound be able to be as good as top tier portable amps? Do you think this is possible?

post #1389 of 2221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Rockwell View Post
 

 

Yes. I noticed that when I switched from WIMA to Elna Tonerex that came in the little metal box with the E12DIY the things got warmer and with more bass and less detail.

 

Did you change to a different value of the caps?

In your opinion, which caps you liked best to go with MUSES01 and HA-5002 combo?

 

Anything above 6.3V is fine to use (which actually is about every caps). I tried some 25V caps but it shouldn't really make that much of a difference.

 

I was using Silmic II most of the time, but now I switch to OxiCaps.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by delrosa81 View Post

...

Yes I agree on that but I wouldnt say it performs exactly as per the really high end amps but it is close though. I am very surprised and happy with the E12DIY's performance and it is really value for money considering the performance. One more thing about both the standard E12 and the E12DIY is the build quality, it is well made and feels very sturdy as compared to some amps of a higher price range which is impressive.

 

IMO, you will get different flavor of tone from different TOTL portable amps, but not necessarily different performance.

post #1390 of 2221
The E12DIY is surely a great amp, and a fantastic value.

But I have to think that the greatest value in a portable amp is the JDS Labs CMOYBB. Yes, it's more like a tinkerer's delight/ novelty item with its cute Altoids tin, but it has a lot of fun personality and it sounds great. A real bargain for what they are selling it for.

In fact, I've been loving it so much, it's sharing top spot with the E12DIY as my two favorite portable amps.

The E12DIY is more solid and serious sounding and can drive a wider range of cans, with its buffers and all.

But the CMOYBB is also very musical, very enjoyable, and has a very fun sound.

I've rolled in OPA627 and MUSES01, as well as the AD8620 and the included OPA2227, and the amp sounds great with each (MUSES01 and OPA627 especially good). Paired with a set of on-ear Harman Kardon CLs, the CMOYBB with MUSES01 has taken over bedside duties from my also awesome Schiit Vali.

But back to the E12DIY. I haven't had a chance to try other high end portable amps, but the E12DIY just makes music sound great. The ability to roll op amps and buffers is HUGE, and makes the amp truly unique.

I'm very glad to have it!
Edited by K.T. - 7/2/14 at 7:21pm
post #1391 of 2221
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

 

 

IMO, you will get different flavor of tone from different TOTL portable amps, but not necessarily different performance.

Thanks for the enlightening information, come to think of it, what you said makes perfect sense and I guess everyone has their own preference of certain brands due to the flavor of the sound is to their liking. Performance wise should be up there just the tuning would make the flavor difference. :)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by K.T. View Post

The E12DIY is surely a great amp, and a fantastic value.

But I have to think that the greatest value in a portable amp is the JDS Labs CMOYBB. Yes, it's more like a tinkerer's delight/ novelty item with its cute Altoids tin, but it has a lot of fun personality and it sounds great.

In fact, I've been loving it so much, it's sharing top spot with the E12DIY as my two favorite portable amps.

The E12DIY is more solid and serious sounding, and can drive a wider range of cans, with its buffers and all.

The CMOYBB is musical, very listenable, and has a very fun sound.

I've rolled in OPA627 and MUSES01, and the amp sounds fantastic. Paired with a set of on-ear Harman Kardon CLs, the CMOYBB with MUSES01 has taken over as bedside duties from my also awesome Schiit Vali.

But back to the E12DIY. I haven't had a chance to try other high end portable amps, but the E12DIY just makes music sound great. The ability to roll op amps and and buffers is HUGE, and makes the amp truly unique.

I'm very glad to have it!

 

I was surfing on the JDS labs CMOYBB and it looks really interesting lol. It is v interesting to note that both the E12DIY and the CMOYBB is sharing top spots. I am very glad to have the E12DIY too!

post #1392 of 2221
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.T. View Post

The E12DIY is surely a great amp, and a fantastic value.

But I have to think that the greatest value in a portable amp is the JDS Labs CMOYBB. Yes, it's more like a tinkerer's delight/ novelty item with its cute Altoids tin, but it has a lot of fun personality and it sounds great.

...

 

Yep, cmoyBB is an solid little amp. But it has its limitation, most noticeably on the power section. It probably won't be a problem and not something that can be easily tell with non-demanding load. For example, OPA627 will be running on its minimum required voltage in cmoyBB even with a fresh 9V, and MUSES01 will be on minimum with a pair of 9V (18V). Since the opamp is driving the load directly, current output and output impedance will vary by quite a lot depends on the opamp used. But if none of that is a problem, cmoyBB is definitely among the best cmoy implementation out there.

 

On side note - as I have slowly learned to read the topology of the amp by looking at the PCB, you will be surprised at just how many 'branded' and expensive portable amps are not more than a cmoy with a slightly better power section.


Edited by ClieOS - 7/2/14 at 7:28pm
post #1393 of 2221
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post
 

 

Yep, cmoyBB is an solid little amp. But it has its limitation, most noticeably on the power section. It probably won't be a problem and not something that can be easily tell with non-demanding load. For example, OPA627 will be running on its minimum required voltage in cmoyBB even with a fresh 9V, and MUSES01 will be on minimum with a pair of 9V (18V). Since the opamp is driving the load directly, current output and output impedance will vary by quite a lot depends on the opamp used. But if none of that is a problem, cmoyBB is definitely among the best cmoy implementation out there.

 

On side note - as I have slowly learned to read the topology of the amp by looking at the PCB, you will be surprised at just how many 'branded' and expensive portable amps are not more than a cmoy with a slightly better power section.


I find the candy box used as it casing is most interesting and the ability for the user to tweak and change components is the next most interesting to customise the sound from the amp.

 

Oh, thats really interesting to know! I guess the basics of an amp topology is pretty much standard except for some tweaking here and there coupled with better quality components to differentiate itself from other brands.

post #1394 of 2221
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

Anything above 6.3V is fine to use (which actually is about every caps). I tried some 25V caps but it shouldn't really make that much of a difference.

I was using Silmic II most of the time, but now I switch to OxiCaps.

Does the capacitance value makes a difference too ar just the voltage?
post #1395 of 2221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Rockwell View Post


Does the capacitance value makes a difference too ar just the voltage?

 

Yes, capacitance does make a difference. First, it can't be too small. Because the caps is there to remove any DC input just before the opamp, they form a high pass filter together. When the capacitance is too small, you will start to lose most of the sub-bass. The stock Wima is 2.2uF, which is a fairly safe number to use. I'll suggest you should at least match it, if not higher. Too high a capacitance also won't help, so keep it reasonable, probably around 10uF~22uF, which will give you some good selection of caps that can still fit inside E12DIY without problem.

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