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Producing electronic music: Under 200 cans that dont color sound but will thump when asked to: HD...

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 

I am looking for a pair of closed headphones for producing electronic music when I cant use monitors. I already have bassy cans for listening; I need a pair that wont color the sound too much, but will still come through with the bass when I am mixing and will allow me to hear/feel how much bass Im pushing through. Looking to keep it under 200. I know the 7506 and the v6 get a lot of love, but Im worried they wont be able to deliver bass when I need them to. The HD 25 II are well regarded as a DJ headphone that isnt overly bassy, but I dont know how suited they are to mixing/producing

 

Edit: Should I be considering the  SRH840 and the K 271 / 272? Or the K 550?


Edited by DerangedGoose - 7/30/13 at 11:50pm
post #2 of 31

The HD25 aren't bad at all for mixing actually in regards to bass. The Sony is more even across the mids and treble, while the Senn has better bass extension.  But unless you're pushing into the 30Hz range, it shouldn't make a difference. 

post #3 of 31
Thread Starter 

I think I was a little unclear, when I say mixing I mean producing. I understand the HD25 see a fair amount of use as a DJ headphone, but are they suitable in a studio environment? From my reading people are saying the 271 has trouble with bass so those are out, leaving the HD25, SRH840 and the K550. Thoughts?


Edited by DerangedGoose - 7/31/13 at 12:01am
post #4 of 31

The ATH-M50 isn't bad. Slightly U-shaped frequency response, and not entirely smooth (there's a couple bumps and peaks in there). Some of the K550s measure pretty well, but purrin did discover some variation in units (one measured pair had a huge treble spike, but the other was actually pretty good).

 

If you have the DAC and amp for it, I'd got for a modded T50RP. You can even start simple...acoustic foam in the cups (I use a Creatology craft foam that's adhesive on the back), 4-6 unteased cotton balls in each cup (depending on size, and brands can make a difference), and the 840 pads will get you most of the way there.

 

I haven't been too active in the sub-$300 market for a while, though, so I'm a bit out of the loop.

post #5 of 31
Thread Starter 

Thanks for your input! The M50 isnt on my list because those are bass-oriented cans and I have that role covered. Ive heard good things about the fostex but dont want to invest in an amp setup, and thats not portable. 

post #6 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerangedGoose View Post

I think I was a little unclear, when I say mixing I mean producing. I understand the HD25 see a fair amount of use as a DJ headphone, but are they suitable in a studio environment? From my reading people are saying the 271 has trouble with bass so those are out, leaving the HD25, SRH840 and the K550. Thoughts?

 

The K271 has good bass, but the midbass humps up quite a bit which makes the lower bass feel rolled off. The 840 is similar, with a fairly warm sound. I find the 440 overall more balanced and more suitable for production than the 840, but in that realm I would say the Sony 7506 is better than the 440.

 

If you like the HD25 form factor, the HD25-13 might be worth a look as I found it more evenhanded in frequency response.

 

The K550 seem to have production variances as mentioned above. The pair that I auditioned in the shop seemed to be pretty good, and very comfortable. It was an extremely brief listen but overall response seemed even to my ears, with maybe a mild spike in the treble.

post #7 of 31
Thread Starter 

Overall, which did you feel had the greatest capability for reproducing bass? This is a concern of mine because when I tried the K240 I found them fairly even, but completely incapable of reproducing the bass required of electronic music, which makes them more or less useless for my purposes. I know they are open back and as such will naturally leak bass, but I want to make sure whatever I go with has an even sound that can be driven to be bass heavy when that is what the signal calls for and the mix is pushing out.

post #8 of 31

How about Superlux 662f (in the States, can be found rebranded as CAD MH-310). It has excellent clarity, soundstange, and seperation.  Flat responce, but good and percise bass. There is also the 662 and 669, which have a little boost in the bass.

post #9 of 31

Just how far down are you pushing? Hitting 60Hz is sufficient for most, unless you're pushing the real gut wrenching stuff at 30Hz. Also keep in mind that actual hearing sensitivity drops sharply at those lower frequencies and varies with loudness. What may sound "neutral" at that range will actually be severely boosted.

 

Do you have any shops nearby to test headphones out on? The 7506 should be readily available at any music/guitar shop.

post #10 of 31

You can try the GMP 8.35 here is more info: http://www.head-fi.org/t/406658/the-german-maestro-gmp-8-35-d-monitor-in-the-studio-serious-about-audio-indeed

 

I got the oval pads as well, for flat sounds. happy_face1.gif

post #11 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by quasar41 View Post

How about Superlux 662f (in the States, can be found rebranded as CAD MH-310). It has excellent clarity, soundstange, and seperation.  Flat responce, but good and percise bass. There is also the 662 and 669, which have a little boost in the bass.

 

That is a very interesting brand, thank you for bringing it up. Superlux seems to have so many offerings, does anyone have any input on the EVO headphones? And is the CAD MH-310 the most suitable one out of all they have?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armaegis View Post

Just how far down are you pushing? Hitting 60Hz is sufficient for most, unless you're pushing the real gut wrenching stuff at 30Hz. Also keep in mind that actual hearing sensitivity drops sharply at those lower frequencies and varies with loudness. What may sound "neutral" at that range will actually be severely boosted.

 

Do you have any shops nearby to test headphones out on? The 7506 should be readily available at any music/guitar shop.

 

Generally the cut off is right about 40 hz as most club systems cant go lower and volume will plummet and the mix will "flub" 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acix View Post

You can try the GMP 8.35 here is more info: http://www.head-fi.org/t/406658/the-german-maestro-gmp-8-35-d-monitor-in-the-studio-serious-about-audio-indeed

 

I got the oval pads as well, for flat sounds. happy_face1.gif

 

shalom, my friend! Those are a little expensive for me. I see youre an EDM producer, what are you cranking out? Obviously my first guess would be psytrance :P

post #12 of 31
Thread Starter 

Can anyone comment on whether I should go with the Superlux 662, 669, or 660?

post #13 of 31

I had a Samson SR850, which is a copy of one of the Superlux headphones. I just can't remember which...

 

Either way, it was good for the price, but it was not even close to being a can for monitoring (thick bass, recessed mids, and sharp upper mids and treble).

 

So, my hands-on experience with Samson/Superlux is very limited, but based on that, what I've read from others, and the very few measurements of Superlux cans that have popped up online, it would not be a go-to brand for me if I were considering something for monitoring. It could very well be that one of the products you mentioned are better than what I heard, but I really think you can do better than that.

 

Honestly, most of the headphones you've mentioned here aren't going to be great for production or monitoring...

 

And though there have been variations in the ATH-M50 (which I think stabilized a couple years ago), I wouldn't call them bass-oriented. They have a bit of additional bass and I think a small bump around 4KHz (fixable with EQ). Not a crazy smooth FR overall, but definitely more towards the neutral side with a slight U curve. Most of the headphones you've mentioned here are likely going to be much more problematic in some way (more trade-offs), less even/neutral when it comes to FR (which you need for production and monitoring), and not as good as all-rounder cans. My second choice would be a good K550 if you can find one.

 

If you have a store where you can demo headphones, try that. Otherwise, I get more use looking at measurements than subjective opinions (it's no help when opinions are all over the place for one product). Tyll has a large database on Innerfidelity, though you should read up on his methods, FR curve compensation, etc. Basically you won't see and don't necessarily want to see perfectly flat responses in his graphs. Purrin also does measurements, but I don't think I'm allowed to post links. His measurements have best correlated to what I hear with headphones. You can also find measurements on Golden Ears, though they're usually not as helpful for me. You can't directly compare across these sources, as they all use different measurement setups and techniques. But there is a lot of information to be gathered from them, and you will over time find ways to properly read the measurements and almost compare across sources to an extent. But you do need to combine this with subjective listening first, and you will eventually be able to map what you hear to what measurements show and better pick headphones from that. Measurements aren't the end-all-be-all, but they are an invaluable tool when combined with subjective impressions (from yourself and others).

 

Anyway, that's about all I have...

post #14 of 31
Any Beyerdynamic DT-7/8/9** will do you well, as long as it isn't the DT770 Pro 80ohm.
post #15 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tus-Chan View Post

Any Beyerdynamic DT-7/8/9** will do you well, as long as it isn't the DT770 Pro 80ohm.

 

Thats the only one I have really been considering. I thought the different beyers had vastly different sound?

 

I think its down to either the ATHM50 , the KRK 8400 , Shure 840, or something else? I need neutrality with bass potential, is the easiest way to describe it.

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