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Hifiman RE600 vs RE400 Tour Thread - Page 4

post #46 of 96
Why are you guys waiting on inks to give your impressions? Give them now while they are fresh in your mind, preferably while you still have the iems in hand, so you can answer any questions. Inks is probably busy with school or work right now.
post #47 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

Why are you guys waiting on inks to give your impressions? Give them now while they are fresh in your mind, preferably while you still have the iems in hand, so you can answer any questions. Inks is probably busy with school or work right now.

 

X2, your frank and straightforward impressions are the main reason why I'm sponsoring the tour. We all owe Inks special thanks for organizing it, but you don't need his ok to post your feedback.

post #48 of 96

+1

 

don't let time distort your sonic impressions

post #49 of 96
Thread Starter 
Sorry for the delay guys but I had recent laptop issues and became quite busy.


Recent status:
The first two users will post impressions soon. One user from the US tour has been taken off due to no response, so its going to the first Canadian at the moment.

I ask those in the tour to NOT read previous impressions until you have posted yours, which will be hidden by a spoiler alert.

FYI the first user has already told me a summary of his impressions and the second is going to ship sometime soon, so no, time isn't distorting anything.....
Edited by Inks - 9/18/13 at 7:50am
post #50 of 96

Well if the earphones are already on their way to me I guess I could restrain myself from reading others impressions... xD

post #51 of 96

I already read a number of comparison between the two. A few more don't change anything IMO.

post #52 of 96
Thread Starter 
Bias is a creepy little thing we like to deny and nobody has compared the actual modded RE400 outside of here. I think having a more blank slate is always good. Besides all users will get to hear anyway so there is really no necessity to read other impressions.
post #53 of 96

I think the point of this tour is more to compare the "mod" on the RE-400 to an RE-600 than just to leave impressions on the RE-600 themselves. I like that we're not supposed to read other's impressions first. Let's make ourselves accountable!

post #54 of 96

I will have my impressions up Sunday night if I can get this move done and over with.  If not then Monday night I will have them posted for anyone who cares to read them.  Let's just say I have learned some surprising things in the process!

post #55 of 96

Yup, I'll have mine up tomorrow...just putting the finishing touches on! :cool:

post #56 of 96

Spoilers! :p

 

Filtered RE-400 Impressions (Click to show)
Impressions using my Clip+ with a few reference tracks and file formats: 192-320kbs/VBR MP3, WMA (lossy @ 256kbs & lossless), 192-320kbs Vorbis,FLAC, WAV
 
Also tested briefly out of my soundcard with SineGen.
 
Disclaimer: All impressions are my subjective opinion of course and I wanted to provide a brief reiteration of the two in their stock form to coincide with final impressions:
 
Similarities: FR extension, depth/height in soundstage, midrange presentation, transparency, musicality
 
Differences:
 
RE-400 
- More neutral overall
- Higher perceived clarity and detail due to elevated treble region
- A bit more analytical but still forgiving
- Better sense of airiness
- Slightly lighter in weight, seemingly less sturdy in build
 
RE-600
- Still fairly neutral with more warmth
- Smoother, more relaxed treble
- Fuller sounding and more perceived body overall
- Slightly warmer and more lush midrange
- Slightly larger width in soundstage
- Slightly better imaging & 3-dimensionality
- Better Instrument separation
- Slightly more musical and a bit more forgiving of source overall
- A bit sturdier build quality: slightly thicker cable, nicer finish on driver housing
 
Provided Filter Impressions with the RE-400:
 
Overall treble is a bit less prominent and brings it closer to the RE-600 level.  I unfortunately was unable to get a proper seal with the bar-filter tips as I typically use medium sized tips (shame HiFiMan didn't provide these in multiple sizes).  I can hold them in place to get a good enough seal to sample, but they're just too small for me.  I suspect the effects are slightly different since they have that bar as an additional filter.  I tried these filters in the stock double flange tips, but the bore is a bit too small so they were a bit crooked.  They were a bit loose in my pair of medium Auvio tips.  Overall, there is still a bit more perceived clarity even with the filters, which is more to my personal preference anyway.  I do feel these filters work well but in stock form I never felt the RE-400 was overly harsh or too bright.  I would suggest those not on the tour try it out, but I'm not sure what the material is exactly.
 
Also, someone mentioned placing the filters under the stock sticker filters in front of the damping material in the driver housing.  I didn't attempt this because they ultimately weren't too loose to test but for a more permanent solution it's possible.  If you find you prefer the results, that's what I'd recommend mainly because I'd be afraid of the filter accidentally coming out in your ear.
 
Additional Filter Experimenting with the RE-400:
 
I tried some various materials I had just for fun since I was rolling out tips and such.  The two that worked best were headphone cup foam from a pair of velour HE-series pads I gutted and standard sheet felt.  I used a hole punch to acquire a 'core' section of the foam ring, which I then cut into small cylindrical sections that fit perfectly in the medium-larger bore tips.  I used the same hole punch in a piece of thin felt.  Using a wooden dowel they're easy to get in place once the tips are installed.  Both are either thicker or denser than the provided filters, so they attenuate a bit more treble and darken the RE-400 a bit more.  The felt does this the most I feel because it's denser.  The foam was a bit crunchy when setting them in my ears but ultimately seemed to have less of an effect than the felt.  While I'd say I prefer the RE-400 stock in most cases, using them with the felt would be my second preference for other instances and was a good for some tracks.  I've included a set of both types along with an extra pair of medium Auvio tips for the rest of the reviewers to try out, but please note that they are outside of the primary impressions with the original filters.  I've labeled them all accordingly so please make sure they stay separate when you pass them along.  If this is an inappropriate addition, please let me know or disregard these results.
 
Final Impression:
 
While I feel there is enough technical difference between the two models to set them apart, listening impressions (and measurements) confirm that these differences are fairly slight overall.  Does this justify the large gap in price?  It might to some, but likely not to most.  I believe a better pricing model would've been that of the last generation RE-series ($150 and $250 respectively).  I do think the RE-400 is justifiable at $150, but I'm glad it's $100 as it does indeed set a new 'watermark' like it was intended to do.  A good bit of the differing traits are related directly to the treble presentation, hence where the filters come in.  If you want to bring the RE-400 closer to the RE-600 in that regard, I can confirm the various filters work to an extent - dropping the upper frequency response does raise the mid to lower frequencies as a result.  I did not detect much change in the midrange frequencies but it is a possibility. 
 
I still don't think that they can match one another in every technical respect due to other factors such as difference in cable material, differing driver coils and impedance, and possibly different damping in the driver housing.  Whatever the differences are and their effects, there are still some things that I feel the RE-600 will always do better but of course that is subjective to what the listener ultimately wants and prefers.  The RE-400 is the better value overall IMO and if you want a darker overall signature without much compromise, it's an easy mod away by adding in some filters.
 
I hope my description is adequate and helpful!  I am thinking about sending my RE-400 in for measurements with the various filters at some point...if someone could let me know via PM what the original filter material was so I can pick some up for further testing, that would be awesome!
post #57 of 96
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Ok, I have received the RE600s today and I think its time to post some initial impressions (note I have not tried the filter mod yet). Since this is a simple comparison between the re400s and re600s I don't think I need to hide these to reduce bias (please pm if you think otherwise inks).

 

I will take this time to state a couple of things. I am a firm believer in the law of diminishing returns and have never owned an IEM that costs over $200. In addition my preference for sound signature is a coloured one, one that is mid centric with a little bit of rolled off treble. Also note I am not good at picking out differences in sound based on their frequency so a lot of my descriptions will be more qualitative in general. Lastly I have not written any reviews in the past so flow, terminology, and certain details will be lacking.

 

Straight out of my portable setup (nexus 4) the comparison between the re600s and re400s is similar to what people have previously mentioned. The 600s appear to have tamed the forward treble/uppermids of the 400s with a little bit more emphasis on the bass and mids compared to the 400s. All in all not much of a sound difference when you think about it and certainly not worth the $300 premium.

 

However the story changed when I plugged the re600s into my desktop setup (fiio e10 DAC -> Millet hybrid tube amp). The re600s start to sound really good to my ears here. The treble is more forward and extended (but never too bright), the mids became more be more smooth and revealing (vocals specifically), and the bass is very punchy and and can extend pretty far down when the recording calls for them to be. In comparison the re400s the difference is quite striking. The treble of the 400s is actually a bit rolled of and not as extended or forward as the 600s, the mids sound congested, and the bass becomes a lot less controlled in this setup.

 

I am sure that none of what I posted makes too much sense but I will add onto this with specific recordings and the differences I personally hear. Based on my initial impression it appears that the re600s need a bit of juice to shine sonically which I think has been mentioned in the other re600 threads out there.


Edited by monoglycer - 9/29/13 at 12:16am
post #58 of 96

Any updates?

post #59 of 96

The Re600 will be in the hands of the next member of the list (zida) tomorrow.

post #60 of 96

Can you put all the impressions on the first page to make it easier to compare later on? Thanks :beerchug:

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