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Schiit Lyr Tube Rollers - Page 50

post #736 of 3175
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurstonX View Post
 

Another question:

I'm looking at Amperex 1960s Bugle Boys vs. Orange Globes.  My thought is to get something classic and little warmer to pair with Grado SR-225 and maybe AKG Q701.  I read here that the Bugle Boys are likely warmer.

 

Any thoughts on one vs. the other?

 

Thanks.

It depends on which OG's you are looking at - however all the OG's are also warm ... If you can get the "Halo Getter" OG's (from late 1960's) they are great and split the difference between the OG "A-Frames" (1970 onwards) and the Bugle Boys ... if you can get Bugle Boys with the large Halo "O Getter" from 1960 , do so - they are fantastic.  If you like treble and soundstaging  (I'm assuming you do due to the AKG headphones), then go for the earliest Bugle Boys you can get (Large "O getters from 1960 would be the best).  If it is just warmth you are after, even the 1970's A Frame OG's have that (with a little less detail).  If you can give more details about your preferences, I have all of those tubes and am only too willing to help you choose.

 

PS.  When I say "choose", I don't mean to sell you some of mine, I mean to help you choose which might best fit your needs.


Edited by NinjaHamster - 11/17/13 at 10:39am
post #737 of 3175
Quote:
Originally Posted by gibosi View Post
 

 

In terms of warmth, I think they are quite similar. Perhaps "Joe" might be able to help you with this decision. :)

 

http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8-2

 

Thanks for the link, and LOL!  Back to square one.  Maybe I should just say, I really like that li'l bugle boy guy, so I'll get those.  ;)

 

In all seriousness, his comments about those two echo most of the others I've read.  One thing that leans me toward the Orange Globes is the availability of the Bugle Boys.  Then there are all the positive reviews herein.

post #738 of 3175
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaHamster View Post
 

It depends on which OG's you are looking at - however all the OG's are also warm ... If you can get the "Halo Getter" OG's (from late 1960's) they are great and split the difference between the OG "A-Frames" (1970 onwards) and the Bugle Boys ... if you can get Bugle Boys with the large Halo "O Getter" from 1960 , do so - they are fantastic.  If you like treble and soundstaging  (I'm assuming you do due to the AKG headphones), then go for the earliest Bugle Boys you can get (Large "O getters from 1960 would be the best).  If it is just warmth you are after, even the 1970's A Frame OG's have that (with a little less detail).  If you can give more details about your preferences, I have all of those tubes and am only too willing to help you choose.

 

PS.  When I say "choose", I don't mean to sell you some of mine, I mean to help you choose which might best fit your needs.

 

OK!  Here's my checkbook!  Oh....  ;)

 

Thanks very much for replying.  This is good info.  I think all those options are available atm.  Have to recheck, but let's assume they are.

 

Cans in question are Q701, SR-225, HE-500, in order of use for these particular tubes.  I've modded my Q701 so it has a more pronounced low end than stock, without affecting the higher frequencies.  That mod is not set in stone, though.  So the potential for some pronounced upper mids (? I'd call them "upper") is still there.  Getting something warm was my initial thought.  I figured the Q701's soundstage wouldn't suffer.  And I think the Grados might benefit from a warmer tube.

 

That said, I like detail.  The OGs in question are "O" getter (I assume that = halo) from 1967.  How would you compare those to 1960 and 1961 Bugle Boys?  I'll skip the A frames and the 1966 BBs, so we're down to two/three (three, if there's a significant difference between the 1960 & 1961 BBs).

 

Thanks a lot for your time :smile: 

post #739 of 3175

How about DeoxIT?  Would this suffice?

 

Steel wool to clean pins

Lint-free cloth to wipe down

DeoxIT Gold to treat

 

Thanks.

post #740 of 3175

Yes, the "Halo getters" are the "O Getters".  I've just compared the two tubes in more detail (previously I was enjoying them without deliberate comparisons).  I have the AKG K-701's and not only do they have a bit of a pronounced upper midrange, but they can sound a little "thin" in general.  I don't think they need a huge amount of emphasis on the highs (even a "delicate" emphasis).  I'd therefore recommend the Orange Globes to you.  They are not quite as refined and delicate as the BB's, don't have quite the soundstage, or the treble extension however they are definitely warm tubes, have greater impact and maybe a touch more bass (though I think that is less a "quantity" thing, and more the impact - the BB is a more "ethereal" tube, the OG is more a "gutsy" tube - one is tilted towards the highs, one towards the bass).  For the relatively lean AKG-701's (and by extension your Q701's), I think the OG is the better match.

 

If anything, the BB's had a more pronounced upper midrange (where the OG's may have a more pronounced lower midrange - which is an area the 701's need help in), though it should be noted that the BB's I used only have about 30 hours on them, so they will almost certainly increase in finesse, detail retrieval and evenness as they burn in.  The OG Halos I used were well-run in already.  Still, I wouldn't expect the actual respective qualities of the tubes to change much.  Also, I don't believe the Q701's need any help in the soundstage dept. (if anything, they could probably afford to be "reigned in" a little there).

 

Hope this helps !!


Edited by NinjaHamster - 11/18/13 at 3:59am
post #741 of 3175
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaHamster View Post
 

Yes, the "Halo getters" are the "O Getters".  I've just compared the two tubes in more detail (previously I was enjoying them without deliberate comparisons).  I have the AKG K-701's and not only do they have a bit of a pronounced upper midrange, but they can sound a little "thin" in general.  I don't think they need a huge amount of emphasis on the highs (even a "delicate" emphasis).  I'd therefore recommend the Orange Globes to you.  They are not quite as refined and delicate as the BB's, don't have quite the soundstage, or the treble extension however they are definitely warm tubes, have greater impact and maybe a touch more bass (though I think that is less a "quantity" thing, and more the impact - the BB is a more "ethereal" tube, the OG is more a "gutsy" tube - one is tilted towards the highs, one towards the bass).  For the relatively lean AKG-701's (and by extension your Q701's), I think the OG is the better match.

 

If anything, the BB's had a more pronounced upper midrange (where the OG's may have a more pronounced lower midrange - which is an area the 701's need help in), though it should be noted that the BB's I used only have about 30 hours on them, so they will almost certainly increase in finesse, detail retrieval and evenness as they burn in.  The OG Halos I used were well-run in already.  Still, I wouldn't expect the actual respective qualities of the tubes to change much.  Also, I don't believe the Q701's need any help in the soundstage dept. (if anything, they could probably afford to be "reigned in" a little there).

 

Hope this helps !!

 

Helps a lot!  Appreciate you taking the time to compare and write it up :smile:

post #742 of 3175
What happened to the bass on these OG's? They used to be accurate and thick, but they seem to have disappeared. Vocals are rendered wonderfully however.

I'm using the HE-500 BTW. I also got these OGs from mercedesman, Halo getters '68. Over 110 NOS rating, I think.
post #743 of 3175

How long have you been using them for etc ?  I assume there've been no other system changes.  I had a similar thing happen to me a few months ago ... was trying to work out why my system was sounding thin etc (assuming it was the tubes becoming variable as they broke in), and realised I had upgraded to the latest version of Audirvana Plus, and that it was so different from the previous version.  Once I reinstalled the previous version, the bass and warmth was back.

post #744 of 3175
Nothing has changed. I have two different setups. My Onkyo DV-SP1000 and then from my Creative SB Titanium HD.

Onkyo -> BJC Canare RCA cables -> Lyr ->HE500

foobar2000 w/ WASAPI -> Creative drivers set on "Audio Creation" mode -> Creative SB Soundcard -> BJC Canare RCA -> Lyr -> HE500

Also my volume knob on the Lyr is half way, or 12PM. I accidently turned the knob at 3PM when listening to Bill Withers' Just the Two Of Us but turned it back down in a few seconds. Hopefully it didn't cause damage, I don't think it did.

It doesn't have the slam that it used to. Usually it takes about 30-45 minutes for these tubes to kick serious ass, and I'm talking about a 10% jump in audio quality once they are warmed up. Billie Jean and Guns of Brixton are good songs to measure the quality of the bass and impact. They both sound recessed which isn't how I normally hear them.

Newer hip-hop/pop songs that are heavily distorted because of brickwalling, you could just hear audible bass. So lets take for example Boom Boom Pow from BEP. It is pretty much nonexistent, whereas before there is a good enough bass. Even something off of Drake's new album comes up very disappointing.

I really don't know what happened.

Supposedly the Onkyo for being top of the line like 10 years ago, doesn't have good enough internal DACs. I do notice a slight difference in resolution compared to my soundcard, in fact the soundcard produces more of an expansive sound that is tangible whereas the Onkyo doesn't do staging as well (I know headphones aren't really for staging let alone imagining, but it is an interesting difference).

It could be my sinuses acting up causing some blockage inside my inner ear...
Edited by Alexnova - 11/18/13 at 9:40am
post #745 of 3175

Yes, I'd give it a few days - especially if you have some sinus issues.  Otherwise, such a marked change would seem quite bizarre.  If the tubes are still burning in, they can go "backwards" in sound quality for a while, but I wouldn't expect it to be so pronounced.  I doubt the Bill Withers volume slip caused any damage - it certainly wouldn't have to the tubes themselves - if anything it would damage the headphones, but unless they sound distorted, it would be unlikely for that to cause a bass reduction only.  I'd say a temporary ear condition is the most likely culprit.  Give it a couple of days and see how you go.  Good Luck !

post #746 of 3175

Man, you guys are killin' me!  I ordered the 1961 Large O Getter Bugle Boys, then asked m-man if I could swap them for the 1967 O Getter OGs (still waiting to hear about that).

 

NinjaHamster is right about the Q701 sounding thin, esp. compared to the HE-500.  Somewhere, maybe multiple threads, I read that the BBs were warmer, but those comments were not as specific as NinjaHamster's.  With the Lyr + Bifrost I may just have to EQ the Q701, unless maybe some Mullards would help.

 

Will I enjoy owning classic Bugle Boys if I'm stuck with them?  Hell yeah  :darthsmile:

 

My wife will divorce me ;)

post #747 of 3175

LOL - If you have both, you can enjoy doing a comparison yourself ... it's fun ... promise !!

post #748 of 3175
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaHamster View Post
 

LOL - If you have both, you can enjoy doing a comparison yourself ... it's fun ... promise !!

 

Well, that's true enough :smile:

 

I've rolled in the Matsu****as (currently warming up), replacing the gorgeous RTCs, as I'll be wearing my Q701 as I re-mod the HE-500.  The Qs with the RTCs were quite thin.  May have to try the Reflectors with the Qs again.  At least they've got some oomph, by comparison.

 

Since you have a lot of tube experience, how would you compare Mullards to the mid-60s OGs to '61 large O getter BBs?  I guess that the best Mullards are expensive, but I've read they have the warmest, thickest sound.

 

Cheers.

post #749 of 3175
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaHamster View Post

Yes, I'd give it a few days - especially if you have some sinus issues.  Otherwise, such a marked change would seem quite bizarre.  If the tubes are still burning in, they can go "backwards" in sound quality for a while, but I wouldn't expect it to be so pronounced.  I doubt the Bill Withers volume slip caused any damage - it certainly wouldn't have to the tubes themselves - if anything it would damage the headphones, but unless they sound distorted, it would be unlikely for that to cause a bass reduction only.  I'd say a temporary ear condition is the most likely culprit.  Give it a couple of days and see how you go.  Good Luck !


 



OK well yes I mean I have hardly burned them in. I mean I have no idea how much use these had but supposedly they've been collecting dust for decades.

If they go backwards because they are still being burned in, then OK.

I wouldn't be surprised if I haven't even cracked 100 hours yet, maybe not even 50. That includes my headphones too.

So if I am really going to see that much of a dramatic difference at 100 hours, then I'll try to burn them in over the next 2 weeks.
post #750 of 3175
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurstonX View Post
 

 

Well, that's true enough :smile:

 

I've rolled in the Matsu****as (currently warming up), replacing the gorgeous RTCs, as I'll be wearing my Q701 as I re-mod the HE-500.  The Qs with the RTCs were quite thin.  May have to try the Reflectors with the Qs again.  At least they've got some oomph, by comparison.

 

Since you have a lot of tube experience, how would you compare Mullards to the mid-60s OGs to '61 large O getter BBs?  I guess that the best Mullards are expensive, but I've read they have the warmest, thickest sound.

 

Cheers.

I've only used various Amperexes in the Lyr, but I DID read through all 500 pages of the first Tube Rolling thread (I know, I know) and used a Mullard as input tube in an Audio Note amplifier I once had.  It seems to be a consensus that that Mullards do have a lush sound (I found Brimar - another British tube - to be of similar ilk).  You are right about the cost though ... once you start spending close to $200 for one pair of tubes, I'd start to think about putting that towards warmer headphones like the LCD-2's.  Upscale Audio have the Mullards, but only in "Driver" grade which is nowhere near good enough for the Lyr:

 

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/Mullard-CV2493-%7B47%7D-6922.html

 

Tube Depot are out of stock completely, but look at that price !!

 

http://www.tubedepot.com/nos-cv2492.html

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