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Schiit Lyr Tube Rollers - Page 405

post #6061 of 10920

Hi there I just won an auction on ebay of a Amperex Orange Globe... but not confident that it is the real deal... can you help me out?

 

1) Cant see clear the orange globe, tho, the seller said its there, visible on one of the tubes

2) Seller say its a 6922, but as far as I researched, Orange globes are 6DJ6... and the picture seems to show 6DJ6 (which is good)

3) The tube has Gold pins... I saw only silver pins on orange globes...

4) Structure, construction => I dont have a clue about it...

 

The seller has good reputation... 2840 itens sold and 99,8% positive... Brent Jessee... it seems to be the owner of (http://www.audiotubes.com/)

Could you guys take a look at the picture/seller and tell me what you think?

 

The link is below:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-AMPEREX-6922-E88CC-GOLD-PIN-VACUUM-TUBES-ORANGE-GLOBE-LABELS-/381206171612?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58c1a88fdc

post #6062 of 10920
Love the Silmic II caps... Use them in my tube buffered DAC. Also put some orange drop caps in my WA2... They sound very nice, organic.
post #6063 of 10920
Quote:
I just rolled the 1962 CV2493s I got from @NightFlight
a few weeks ago.  Physically they are absolutely pristine, and I thank him mightily for offering them up for a more than reasonable price.  A nice lesson on the virtue of patience.  As to how they sound, I'll find out over the next few days.  I assume he put a few hours on them, but if he mentioned how many, I can't recall, so I'll give them at least 50 before I get too critical. 

 

I put enough on them to get them over the 24hr hump. Then a listen over a couple days at perhaps 2-4hrs each to determine they were not my cup of tea. Other than that they were sold to me NOS. I charged around what I paid - which is fair I thought. You bought them... THEN I saw how rare they were. LOL. 

 

Enjoy man. :P

post #6064 of 10920
Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorGG View Post
 

Hi there I just won an auction on ebay of a Amperex Orange Globe... but not confident that it is the real deal... can you help me out?

 

1) Cant see clear the orange globe, tho, the seller said its there, visible on one of the tubes

2) Seller say its a 6922, but as far as I researched, Orange globes are 6DJ6... and the picture seems to show 6DJ6 (which is good)

3) The tube has Gold pins... I saw only silver pins on orange globes...

4) Structure, construction => I dont have a clue about it...

 

The seller has good reputation... 2840 itens sold and 99,8% positive... Brent Jessee... it seems to be the owner of (http://www.audiotubes.com/)

Could you guys take a look at the picture/seller and tell me what you think?

 

The link is below:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-AMPEREX-6922-E88CC-GOLD-PIN-VACUUM-TUBES-ORANGE-GLOBE-LABELS-/381206171612?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58c1a88fdc

 

I'm pretty sure those are 6922s, based on the gold pins and the internal construction.  Early 1970s ECC88s/6DJ8s usually have the 'A' frame getter support from what I've seen.  By contrast, the 1970s E88CCs/6922s use that straight post getter support.  If they're good, that's a nice price.

post #6065 of 10920
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikoss View Post

Love the Silmic II caps... Use them in my tube buffered DAC. Also put some orange drop caps in my WA2... They sound very nice, organic.


Yeah replaced a bunch of generic Rubycons caps with the Silmic II's in my big integrateds as well - really nice.  The Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold/Oils made a major improvement there as well  - they each take 6 and I have two amps.  So it was not cheap to mod - but well worth it - improved every aspect of the SQ.  Hoping the Lyr improves as much.  Those two .33uf's where only a $100 for the pair.  I'll get a thread started as I have a bunch of other Steve Nugent recommended mods as well - these are just the low hanging fruit.  If you're good with a soldering iron it would be a 1 hour quickie project.


Edited by rb2013 - 4/2/15 at 10:55am
post #6066 of 10920
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightFlight View Post
 

I put enough on them to get them over the 24hr hump. Then a listen over a couple days at perhaps 2-4hrs each to determine they were not my cup of tea. Other than that they were sold to me NOS. I charged around what I paid - which is fair I thought. You bought them... THEN I saw how rare they were. LOL. 

 

Enjoy man. :P

 

Thanks.  I was going to PM you re: an estimate of how many hours you put on them.  re: their value, I think your price was very fair :D  Also, unless I really don't like them, I doubt I'll sell them.  Were I to do so, I'd follow suit and offer them up here first.

post #6067 of 10920
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post
 

Thanks!  Better make it a case of Dewar's :rolleyes:

 

LOL!  Da!  I actually married a Russian girl who likes to dance with my headphones on...but only with the HG's.  Can you blame a guy for loving them! :dt880smile:


Now just don't be hating on me...:wink_face: 

 

Oh my God.  I was just f***ing around.  You really are Russian !!!  If she's one of the perks, where do I join up ???

post #6068 of 10920
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post


Yeah replaced a bunch of generic Rubycons caps with the Silmic II's in my big integrateds as well - really nice.  The Mundorf Supreme Silver/Gold/Oils made a major improvement there as well  - they each take 6 and I have two amps.  So it was not cheap to mod - but well worth it - improved every aspect of the SQ.  Hoping the Lyr improves as much.  Those two .33uf's where only a $100 for the pair.  I'll get a thread started as I have a bunch of other Steve Nugent recommended mods as well - these are just the low hanging fruit.  If you're good with a soldering iron it would be a 1 hour quickie project.
You never fail to amaze me with your knowledge of audio/ tube amps. I never thought about modifying the lyr. I think it would be neat to get a used lyr and modify it. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge sir.
post #6069 of 10920
Quote:
Originally Posted by billerb1 View Post
 

 

Oh my God.  I was just f***ing around.  You really are Russian !!!  If she's one of the perks, where do I join up ???


Don't have a 'dating service' for that!  Ha HA!  The only way two old guys could make that dream come true!

 

No mine really comes from the Iberian Peninsula - nicer tan.

post #6070 of 10920
Da
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post


Don't have a 'dating service' for that!  Ha HA!  The only way two old guys could make that dream come true!

No mine really comes from the Iberian Peninsula - nicer tan.

Dammit !!!!
post #6071 of 10920
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog View Post


You never fail to amaze me with your knowledge of audio/ tube amps. I never thought about modifying the lyr. I think it would be neat to get a used lyr and modify it. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge sir.


I'm hoping it'll be a nice step-up.  The other mods like changing out the Bridge Recs to Hexfreds would be my next 'stage'.  Then some of the more difficult stuff like:

Quote:
Cut the two long traces from the center contact of the input RCA connectors to the volume pot.  Use X-acto and cut out a short piece of trace right at the RCAs and then right at the Pot.  4 cuts total. Then on the bottom, wire these to the same places using cotton-insulated pure silver wire from VHAudio.  Twist two wires, one signal and one ground from connector to pot. One pair for left and one pair for right. 4 total wires.

 

 

The Lyr uses a unique circuit design - in lieu of the typical coupling caps for the tube stage they use a DC servo.  With a typical coupling cap arrangement (like on my Modded Lite DAC60, and Bada Integrateds) the caps have to be big, on the DAC60 they're 2.7uf and the Bada 4.7uf!  These on the Lyr are 1/0th the size, so I assume they work within the DC servo circuit.  I' hoping the greatly improved film caps (Mundorf) have the same effect on the SQ.

 

Another very important part of the Lyr design is the 'Adaptive Class A Output Stage'.  As their website explains:

Quote:
It’s a current-sensing adaptive output topology which allows the amplifier to dynamically adjust to the headphone load. The primary benefits are essentially single-ended Class-A operation for high-impedance headphones, moving seamlessly to push-pull Class A and finally into Class AB as current needs increase. This provides much higher overall efficiency.

What this means is that the Mosfet outputs change their biasing characteristics as the load increases - from single ended Class A to push-pull Class A to Class A/B.

 

Single ended Class 'A' will always give the purest, smoothest, cleanest sound.  Followed by push-pull Class A.  Lastly A/B is the least pure - suffering from what is known as switching distortion.

So on high impedance HPs like the HD800s (300 ohms) the amp will operate in the first two Class A modes almost all the time - unless driven very hard - say during transient peaks.  On a very low impedance HP like the AKG 702s (62ohms) the Lyr will almost always be in the 2nd and 3rd operating modes - giving a less natural and pure sound.

 

This white paper explains it pretty well

http://www.firstwatt.com/pdf/art_zen_amp.pdf

Quote:
Simplicity is not the only reason for the use of the single-ended topology. The characteristic of a single-ended gain stage is the most musically natural. Its asymmetry is similar to the compression / rarefaction characteristic of air, where for a given displacement slightly higher pressure is observed on a positive (compression) than on a negative (rarefaction). Air itself is observed to be a single-ended medium, where the pressure can become very high, but never go below 0. The harmonic distortion of such a medium is second harmonic, the least offensive variety. It is occasionally misunderstood that single-ended amplifiers intentionally distort the signal with second harmonic in order to achieve a falsely euphonious character. This is not true. Low distortion is still an important goal, and it is my observation that deliberate injection of second harmonic into a musical signal does not improve the quality of sound.
 
Single-ended amplification is distinct from push-pull designs in that there is only one gain device for each gain stage, and it carries the full signal alone. Linear single ended designs operate only in Class A. In contrast, push-pull designs share the signal between two opposing devices, one concentrating on the positive half, the other the negative half. This positive/negative half of an audio signal is an artifice imposed by the desire to efficiently handle an AC only signal, with no DC component. Most Push-pull Class A designs offer energy efficiency of twice that of most single-ended designs, and they also offer a measure of distortion cancellation. A well matched push-pull pair of gain devices will have lower measured distortion due to cancellation, and will concentrate the harmonic content into third harmonic and other "odd" harmonics, reflecting the symmetry between the plus and minus halves of the waveform. Operation is possible in Class A, Class AB, and Class B modes. The most linear of these is Class A, in which the circuit will dissipate at idle more than twice its rated output. 
Quote:
The Mosfet designs on the market are also Class AB designs. The transfer curve of Mosfets reveals serious nonlinearities at low bias currents, resulting in crossover nonlinearity in push-pull designs. This design flaw makes for a sonic signature that many have referred to as "Mosfet mist", where a loss of detail is apparent. To fully realize the benefits of Mosfet transistors, they must be operated in Class A.

Edited by rb2013 - 4/2/15 at 8:30pm
post #6072 of 10920
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post

 

Single ended Class 'A' will always give the purest, smoothest, cleanest sound.  Followed by push-pull Class A.  Lastly A/B is the least pure - suffering from what is known as switching distortion.

So on high impedance HPs like the HD800s (300 ohms) the amp will operate in the first two Class A modes almost all the time - unless driven very hard - say during transient peaks.  On a very low impedance HP like the AKG 702s (62ohms) the Lyr will almost always be in the 2nd and 3rd operating modes - giving a less natural and pure sound.

 

 

Interesting. I've read owners say that nothing drives their notoriously picky 702s better than the Lyr. Not doubting their impressions in the slightest. In fact, as a former owner of 702s and current owner of a Lyr 2, those reports make me want to grab a pair of the K7XX next time they come around.  

 

But it makes me wonder what the consensus is on the best headphones for the Lyr? Would HD800 be more suitable than Audeze? 

post #6073 of 10920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matro5 View Post
 

 

Interesting. I've read owners say that nothing drives their notoriously picky 702s better than the Lyr. Not doubting their impressions in the slightest. In fact, as a former owner of 702s and current owner of a Lyr 2, those reports make me want to grab a pair of the K7XX next time they come around.  

 

But it makes me wonder what the consensus is on the best headphones for the Lyr? Would HD800 be more suitable than Audeze? 


Well the thing about the Lyr is the 6 watts of peak power - so with a very low HP like the 702 - they have the drive to power them without clipping.  Amp clipping distortion is parabolic - the worst.  Most head amps just go into clipping on the transient peaks with a HP like the 702 - most music is very dynamic - so the clipping of the amp may only be hit only at key important points.  So at least the Lyr has that extra head room.

 

But yes the best theoretical HP for the Lyr would be the HD800 or Beyer T-1's.  The LCD2's are better at 70 ohms, but not much better the AKG's.  But the horsepower drive issue still applies - and 6 watts or more is needed.  How many HP amps can supply that.  This is why I'm so excited about the HiFiMan EF1000 - this sucker is going to supply 10 Watts or more, much of it Class A, from what I hear.  And it appears the HE1000's are going to need it to sound best.


Edited by rb2013 - 4/2/15 at 5:18pm
post #6074 of 10920
I think 6 watts RMS -is doing my hard to drive HiFIMan HE-560 really well with wide dynamic range music. Not familiar with the AKG you mention. I do have the hybrid AKG 340!
Some of my SACD Mahler Michael Tilson Thomas (also some my best sound quality) really give it a workout! The EF1000 looks awesome! I ordered the Ragnarok a few weeks ago- 12 Watts RMS into 32 Ohms- 100 into 4 Ohms.
Besides the price there is a parts shortage and some have waited 3 months. Yikes!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post


Well the thing about the Lyr is the 6 watts of peak power - so with a very low HP like the 702 - they have the drive to power them without clipping.  Amp clipping distortion is parabolic - the worst.  Most head amps just go into clipping on the transient peaks with a HP like the 702 - most music is very dynamic - so the clipping of the amp may only be hit only at key important points.  So at least the Lyr has that extra head room.

But yes the best theoretical HP for the Lyr would be the HD800 or Beyer T-1's.  The LCD2's are better at 70 ohms, but not much better the AKG's.  But the horsepower drive issue still applies - and 6 watts or more is needed.  How many HP amps can supply that.  This is why I'm so excited about the HiFiMan EF1000 - this sucker is going to supply 10 Watts or more, much of it Class A, from what I hear.  And it appears the HE1000's are going to need it to sound best.
post #6075 of 10920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exacoustatowner View Post

I think 6 watts RMS -is doing my hard to drive HiFIMan HE-560 really well with wide dynamic range music. Not familiar with the AKG you mention. I do have the hybrid AKG 340!
Some of my SACD Mahler Michael Tilson Thomas (also some my best sound quality) really give it a workout! The EF1000 looks awesome! I ordered the Ragnarok a few weeks ago- 12 Watts RMS into 32 Ohms- 100 into 4 Ohms.
Besides the price there is a parts shortage and some have waited 3 months. Yikes!!


Yes the He-560 need some juice and the HE-6 well a bucket full!  Looks like the HE-1000 even more.

 

Pricing on the EF1000 is still an open question.  I have heard between $3K and $5K.

 

The Ragnarok is a great bargain - just wished they went with the 6922 tube pre. But they did put in a stepped attenuator - nice!  Can not tell from their website if it runs in class A or not.

 

Quote:
Power Supply: 400VA transformer with 4 separate circlotron output rails 

Well you could always use it to split atoms in your living room!

 

File source: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Berkeley_60-inch_cyclotron.jpg

Lawrence's 60 inch cyclotron, with magnet poles 60 inches (5 feet, 1.5 meters) in diameter, at the University of California Lawrence Radiation Laboratory, Berkeley, in August, 1939, the most powerful accelerator in the world at the time. Glenn T. Seaborg and Edwin M. McMillan (right) used it to discover plutonium, neptunium and many other transuranic elements and isotopes, for which they received the 1941Nobel Prize in physics. The cyclotron magnet is at left, the beamline which analyzed the particles is at right. :etysmile:(I know they are different - :basshead:)

 

PS Love that M.T.T. SACD!


Edited by rb2013 - 4/2/15 at 8:27pm
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