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Schiit Lyr Tube Rollers - Page 390

post #5836 of 11395
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckjones242 View Post

Are these the two tubes listed at the tubedepot?


Not likely - very hard to find.  Best to check E-bay and run the dealer or tubes by the community.

I saw you had E188CC as the model on the Telefunken (as opposed to E88CC)... Is this a different tube, or was it just a simple typo?

Just wondering because I have the E88CC... Wanted to see if that was my pony running in the race. smily_headphones1.gif
post #5837 of 11395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hansotek View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckjones242 View Post

Are these the two tubes listed at the tubedepot?


Not likely - very hard to find.  Best to check E-bay and run the dealer or tubes by the community.

I saw you had E188CC as the model on the Telefunken (as opposed to E88CC)... Is this a different tube, or was it just a simple typo?

Just wondering because I have the E88CC... Wanted to see if that was my pony running in the race. smily_headphones1.gif

They are different. The E188CC is a rare and refined E88CC tube. Basically made to higher specs, longer heater life, and is generally made to military specs. The Teles were most probably manufactured in Germany.
post #5838 of 11395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hansotek View Post


I saw you had E188CC as the model on the Telefunken (as opposed to E88CC)... Is this a different tube, or was it just a simple typo?

Just wondering because I have the E88CC... Wanted to see if that was my pony running in the race. smily_headphones1.gif


Yes! I have both in the review!  '60s Ulm Tele E88CC's and the E188CC's.  The 188's are really something special - and damn expensive.

 

Didn't know if you caught my post of this 6922/E188C/7308 tube shoot out by the HK tube club a while back:

http://hktubeaudio.homestead.com/files/6dj8.html

post #5839 of 11395
I don't think I'll ever buy tubes off eBay so I'll go with a retailer that you guys recommend and that probably means I'll never have the best of the best frown.gif

But I probably can't go wrong with the Amperex 7308 at upscale or the Philips miniwatt at tubedepot then. Or at least I won't be ripped off "that much". I know that tubedepot will take returns at least.
post #5840 of 11395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckjones242 View Post

I don't think I'll ever buy tubes off eBay so I'll go with a retailer that you guys recommend and that probably means I'll never have the best of the best frown.gif

But I probably can't go wrong with the Amperex 7308 at upscale or the Philips miniwatt at tubedepot then. Or at least I won't be ripped off "that much". I know that tubedepot will take returns at least.

Most eBay sales have returns, especially reputable tube sellers... I've personally bought over 20 Miniwatts from eBay and never had a single bad tube. I did buy a pair of Tung Sol 5998 power tubes where one had an issue, and the seller returned it with apologies. If you're dead set against eBay, they will cost a lot more... you can try Upscale Audio or Brent Jessee... I would recommend both. Also Vacuumtubes.com; I've purchased one Miniwatt from them and I think they're out now.

 

The Miniwatt's also come in a bunch of "flavours" and I imagine you'd want the Heerlen, Holland manufactured one. They are also labelled as Dario Miniwatt's, and Valvo E188CC tubes. (All made by Philips). The Dario ones are normally from France, but not always. The Valvo ones are predominantly Holland made, but also some from Germany. I also have Mullard, Holland branded E188CC tubes which are practically identical to Miniwatts, as they were made in the same Holland factory by Philips/Amperex.

 

eBay pricing per tube is anywhere from $90 each to outrageous prices. Other reputable sources also charge at least $185/pr last time I checked... good luck! They are also among my favourite 6DJ8 tubes.

 

If you do buy from Tube World, I would urge caution as their test results are blatantly wrong... they advertise tubes way over 20mA for gm when the spec is 15mA. The only practical way to get say 23.5/26mA as in the bottom link would be to apply say 100V on the tester instead of the correct test voltage, which I believe is ~93V. There is also a German seller on eBay who does this and charges OUTRAGEOUS prices for these tubes... $185ea or so. I purchased one and believe me, they are nothing special. Sounds like the $60 tubes I've bought from other more reputable eBay sellers.

example Tubeworld link:

http://tubeworldexpress.com/collections/preamp/products/e188cc-7308-philips-miniwatt-sq-holland-gold-pins-1963-original-box-23-5-26ma-recommended

post #5841 of 11395
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikoss View Post
 

Most eBay sales have returns, especially reputable tube sellers... I've personally bought over 20 Miniwatts from eBay and never had a single bad tube. I did buy a pair of Tung Sol 5998 power tubes where one had an issue, and the seller returned it with apologies. If you're dead set against eBay, they will cost a lot more... you can try Upscale Audio or Brent Jessee... I would recommend both. Also Vacuumtubes.com; I've purchased one Miniwatt from them and I think they're out now.

 

The Miniwatt's also come in a bunch of "flavours" and I imagine you'd want the Heerlen, Holland manufactured one. They are also labelled as Dario Miniwatt's, and Valvo E188CC tubes. (All made by Philips). The Dario ones are normally from France, but not always. The Valvo ones are predominantly Holland made, but also some from Germany. I also have Mullard, Holland branded E188CC tubes which are practically identical to Miniwatts, as they were made in the same Holland factory by Philips/Amperex.

 

eBay pricing per tube is anywhere from $90 each to outrageous prices. Other reputable sources also charge at least $185/pr last time I checked... good luck! They are also among my favourite 6DJ8 tubes.

 

If you do buy from Tube World, I would urge caution as their test results are blatantly wrong... they advertise tubes way over 20mA for gm when the spec is 15mA. The only practical way to get say 23.5/26mA as in the bottom link would be to apply say 100V on the tester instead of the correct test voltage, which I believe is ~93V. There is also a German seller on eBay who does this and charges OUTRAGEOUS prices for these tubes... $185ea or so. I purchased one and believe me, they are nothing special. Sounds like the $60 tubes I've bought from other more reputable eBay sellers.

example Tubeworld link:

http://tubeworldexpress.com/collections/preamp/products/e188cc-7308-philips-miniwatt-sq-holland-gold-pins-1963-original-box-23-5-26ma-recommended


I've bought a bunch of Holland Philips Miniwatts as well...listen to Mike, he knows his Minis.  If you're patient and do your homework, early 60's E88CC Miniwatt PAIRS (NOS or close) can almost always be had for under $100 and E188CC pairs (NOS or close) for under $175.  The last pair of Philips Miniwatt E188CC's I got were 1965's that tested near NOS and I won the auction from a German seller for something like $71.  They're gorgeous.

To pay that Tube World price above for a single E188CC is just simply ridiculous.


Edited by billerb1 - 3/23/15 at 12:00am
post #5842 of 11395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckjones242 View Post

I don't think I'll ever buy tubes off eBay so I'll go with a retailer that you guys recommend and that probably means I'll never have the best of the best frown.gif

But I probably can't go wrong with the Amperex 7308 at upscale or the Philips miniwatt at tubedepot then. Or at least I won't be ripped off "that much". I know that tubedepot will take returns at least.


I've dealt with Tue Depot for years - yes they are very reliable and a safe bet.  I see they have the Tele E188CC's for $600/pr

 

https://www.tubedepot.com/products/telefunken-diamond-bottom-e188cc-7308-gold-pin

post #5843 of 11395

Thank you for the recommendations guys!  Alleviates some of my concerns and you've given some information on what might sound great for my tastes.  I may actually go with the Tele 188CCs since they're available and considered holy by most people - despite being about $300 over my limit and eats into my Bifrost budget which I had slated as the next upgrade.   But at 10k hours they'll last my lifetime.

post #5844 of 11395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckjones242 View Post
 

Thank you for the recommendations guys!  Alleviates some of my concerns and you've given some information on what might sound great for my tastes.  I may actually go with the Tele 188CCs since they're available and considered holy by most people - despite being about $300 over my limit and eats into my Bifrost budget which I had slated as the next upgrade.   But at 10k hours they'll last my lifetime.


If you feel most comfortable buying from a dealer - You could consider these early '60s Siemens CCa gray shield's as well from Tube World '63s for $600/Pr.

http://tubeworldexpress.com/search?q=cca+siemens

 

Brent Jesse as well has the Siemens Gray Shield CCa's for $600/pr

http://www.audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm

 

Just a couple of other sources to consider.

post #5845 of 11395

Now that certainly does muddy the waters.  :blink:  

 

Tele's or Siemens... Tele's or Siemens... seems blasphemous to pump Mastodon or Amon Tobin through either of them.

post #5846 of 11395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckjones242 View Post
 

Now that certainly does muddy the waters.  :blink:  

 

Tele's or Siemens... Tele's or Siemens... seems blasphemous to pump Mastodon or Amon Tobin through either of them.


LOL!  I pumped some raucous Seether and they kinda liked it. :gs1000smile:

 

You may want to wait until I list my review prs and save some bucks.

post #5847 of 11395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckjones242 View Post
 

Now that certainly does muddy the waters.  :blink:  

 

Tele's or Siemens... Tele's or Siemens... seems blasphemous to pump Mastodon or Amon Tobin through either of them.

 

I love the thump I get from Amon Tobin on either of my HiFiMAN cans driven by the Lyr.  I'll also echo earlier posts re: buying from eBay.  It just takes some knowledge about what to look for, and what makes a good deal a good deal, vs. some insanely overpriced listings for what you can find for a third of those insane prices.  As Bob noted, you can always ask about specific listings in this thread.  Someone is bound to offer advice.

post #5848 of 11395

OK, since you guys have been so helpful with your tips I'd like to post a review of my JAN Sylvania 6922 tubes circa '73, that I purchased off Tube Depot a month ago. 

 

Why do they warrant space on the 390 pages of part 2 of the rolling thread?  Cause they're available easily, they're "fairly" inexpensive at $100 and they sound pretty good depending on your taste in music.  More to come on that.

 

The headphones I'm using are HE-500's which are pretty flat, accurate, and are known to be a little forward sounding.  I love them.   Playing FLAC's through my Fiio X5 DAC hooked up to my Lyr.  I'm playing some punk, some blues, and some metal while typing.

 

These are dark heavy tubes.  Gothic.  They mirror the decade in which they were born.  Think Deep Purple, Rush, Led Zepplin or Black Sabbath (not that I like any of them).  

 

They're full of bass.  Not especially punchy, not particularly fast, in a good way.  Kick drums take stage and bass guitars get their chance to shine amongst the band.  They make my HE-500's sound like their wacky HE-400 brother on the bottom end.

 

The mid-range is no slouch.  Guitars have a nice growl to them - distortion sounds cool, very analog.  Old Black Keys sound really good.

 

The most pronounced feature is how far forward they are - it's like I'm plugged into the Marshall amp.  There are no illusions what is in the left or right channel.  The band has grabbed you firmly by the shoulders and plopped you down on the stage.

 

So if you like these qualities.... what's the problem?  The top end is weak.  It's partly why things sound too warm at times, the highs are recessed so far that top of the mids are just lost IMO.  A shame because the cymbals are clean and vocals are warm too.  The frustration happens when you want to mellow out and put in Rush - while the band is playing just for you, Geddy is pouting in the corner afraid to shriek.

 

So why do I like them at all?  They're my favorite when I'm playing music with a lot of screaming or distortion.  They naturally remove sibilance and highs that just hurt at a decent volume level - everything just rolls off the top.  You're left with a tube that likes to blast guitars and drums.  If you're into that sorta thing than this tube can sing.  If you like electronic music on the side like I do, this tube is utter crud.

 

I reserve the right to pull this review in a heart beat when I get my 1962 Siemens CCa's and they manage to make a choir out of Converge or Pissed Jeans.

 

If you have a different tube reco for metal / punk, let me know!

 

Rob.

post #5849 of 11395
Thanks for the review, really like how you described them as mirroring the decade was cool.
post #5850 of 11395
We've got a writer on board !!!! Wow, great review and a pleasure to read.
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