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Schiit Lyr Tube Rollers - Page 33

post #481 of 4282
Siemens CCa Vs Voskhod '75 Grey Shield

Tonally these two tubes are pretty much identical. Both have a very flat response and not overly 'Tubey' in their sound. To clarify the 'tube' sound to me is a bit rounded and punchy in the mids. Sometimes 'tube' sound is a bit soft on the details and the trade-off is pleasant to listen to. Many would argue this, but I'm talking about cheap common tubes. To my ear they typically fall a bit short.

I gave each pair 1/2hr to warm up. Both are well broken in. The CCa with maybe a few hundred hours on them, the Russians have 100hrs of break-in time only. They might get much better with time, but I don't know.

The Russians are slightly more intimate with an ever so slight emphasis on warmth over the Siemens. Both allow you identify placement and certitude of instruments with ease. I seem to be mostly focused on sound stage these days. Space and art of envelope layering by the artists. So I'm going to focus here rather than anywhere else, other aspects being negligibly equal.

Cowboy Junkies:
Renmin Park - Track 08 - Cicadas
This track brings to life live samples from ... presumably Renmin Park... and layer on top of that voices in the presence range. Then it layers sound samples upon samples all with different sound envelopes. This track sounds great with both tubes, the only advantage the CCa has is that the deep background sounds way in the distant are more pronounced. There is a church bell that faintly goes off and you can almost hear it echoing off the roof tops and through the streets to reach you. With the voskhod this is less pronounced but still can be sensed. Then again I might impressing my experience of the former on the latter.

Renmin Park - Track 02 - Renmin Park
I discovered this track with my current rig and CCa tube. I have to confess that for me, I don't know what it is but there is something in this track gets me. The first time I heard it I teared right up. Sometime it still gets me. But emotionally the CCa brings this out in me. The Voskhod falls ever so slightly short in this respect. I'm _very_ surprised by this and I can't really explain the difference. So there you have it. One tube produces more of an emotional response than the other. Go figure. If that isn't an element of je-ne-cais-quoi, then I don't know what is.

Summary:
I think what might be going on here is that the E1CC88 might be a better fit electrically into the Lyr's circuit. You would think you could just add a hair more gain on the volume pot to compensate with the 6N23P. The problem being is that your bringing up the floor as well when you do this. The CCa being designed to be a sensitive tube fits the Lyr perfectly. Background and detail shines and I don't think a CCa can be beat in this respect.

Not that the 6N23P is a slouch in this circuit. No sir. The experience is nearly the same. If I didn't know the CCa I might even call this an end game tube with for this amp and headphone. Not that I believe in the nonsense of 'end game'. No such thing.

So the verdict in my IMHO is that the difference is very small. The cost difference very high. The CCa gets you 'there' a little more. A little closer to the recording. It's only evident if you A/B or if you are already ruined by the CCa. As one has been tarnished by the CCa tube I do notice that little niggling thing that I can't put my finger on is missing. That niggling feeling faded as I lived with the Voskhod for a week.

Also as Rob has stated a few times, it depends on your source. Perhaps the Voskhod does better than the CCa when it gets a different source to work with. So in the end its all plastic. Impressions aren't worth much and YMMV. biggrin.gif
Edited by NightFlight - 9/14/13 at 5:11pm
post #482 of 4282

Great observations...elegantly stated.  Thanks!

post #483 of 4282

Anyone bought any of those 6H23?

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/6H23-%7B47%7D-6922-Rocket-Logo.html

or

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/6H23n-EB-6922

is it worth to pay almost twice and buy from second place?

post #484 of 4282
Quote:
Originally Posted by olegausany View Post
 

Anyone bought any of those 6H23?

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/6H23-%7B47%7D-6922-Rocket-Logo.html

or

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/6H23n-EB-6922

is it worth to pay almost twice and buy from second place?

 

I have the second ones. Mine are 1983 "super cryo" from Cryoset though. I have no idea if that makes a difference. I got them from another member who swore by them.

 

They are my go to tubes for my HE-500s. I love them. I can't find any fault with them. Excellent soundstage and bottom end with zero microphonics. I think I prefer Orange Globes with my HD600's. Although The HD600s don't get much head time these days.

 

You might want to note that those first tubes you asked about are listed as "driver grade" and not for use in a preamp application as with the Lyr.


Edited by Radioking59 - 9/15/13 at 12:21am
post #485 of 4282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioking59 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by olegausany View Post
 

Anyone bought any of those 6H23?

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/products/6H23-%7B47%7D-6922-Rocket-Logo.html

or

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/6H23n-EB-6922

is it worth to pay almost twice and buy from second place?

 

I have the second ones. Mine are 1983 "super cryo" from Cryoset though. I have no idea if that makes a difference. I got them from another member who swore by them.

 

They are my go to tubes for my HE-500s. I love them. I can't find any fault with them. Excellent soundstage and bottom end with zero microphonics. I think I prefer Orange Globes with my HD600's. Although The HD600s don't get much head time these days.

 

You might want to note that those first tubes you asked about are listed as "driver grade" and not for use in a preamp application as with the Lyr.

Ok thanks I totally forgot about preamp, sorry I'm new to this. So second place is my only option. I will try to contact them and ask which grade they have.
post #486 of 4282
post #487 of 4282
Have 1980 rockets but I like orange globes better
post #488 of 4282

what cans are you using them with? 

post #489 of 4282
HE 500
post #490 of 4282

Thought this might be helpful.

 

I've been working with Jack Elliano of Electra-Print.  Jack made my output transformers and fixed a buzzing noise in my 300B power regulator board that I was not capable of finding.

 

I mentioned tube rolling.  Jack has been designing, building, and selling tube amplifiers and transformers for 40 years.  He has a great reputation.  He's very old school and for a number of reasons is not a big tube rolling fan.

 

I thought I'd pass along one of his concerns.  The lack of strength of the socket component pins and PCB solder joints.  He said over time the solder joints will weaken and the flat tin socket pins can develop metal fatigue from the rocking motion.

 

As a former Lyr owner and roller, like many, I purchased Tube Monger socket savers.   In my opinion, if not used correctly, because of their increased leverage, will have a greater chance of inflicting damage to the PCB socket component than inserting the tube directly into the socket.    

 

I was using them incorrectly.  I would rock and remove the entire assembly, then remove the tube from the socket saver.  This is wrong.  Nothing should be rocked.  You want to hold the saver in place and extract the tube from the socket saver taking care not to rock the socket saver.  

 

Perhaps this is what everyone does, but I thought passing my experience along might help someone else that was doing this.  Here are some photos that show the socket component's flat pins.

 

 

post #491 of 4282
You unplug use something flat I use a ice pop stick hold the socket saver in place and roll out the tube
Works very easily
post #492 of 4282
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuna47 View Post

You unplug use something flat I use a ice pop stick hold the socket saver in place and roll out the tube
Works very easily

Exactly. Holding the socket saver in place is key.  Otherwise they are not saving your sockets.

post #493 of 4282
Starbucks coffee stirrer sticks (nice and long) work well too.
post #494 of 4282

I was stupid, as usual.   I thought, "isn't this great, rock the whole thing and it all pops out !"

I'm like.... "why are they called socket savers and not tube savers".

 

So the tutorial was provided for any other knuckleheads.

post #495 of 4282
Not so stupid :-) There is a way to rock out just the tube, leaving the socket saver in place.
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