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post #4096 of 12724
Quote:
Originally Posted by sling5s View Post
 


I got the reply from the eBay seller.  Here was his explanation: 

"Here's a site that talks about the tube codes. http://www.audiotubes.com/teledate.htm perhaps you can determine if they are from different years or maybe one was made in Berlin and the other made at the Ulm factory. When I mentioned closely matched in the listing, I was referring to the Gm readings taken with my tube tester. One might be a mm taller, but they have the same getters and construction looks the same. They could have been made at the same factory but on different days by different people. So yes, they are both 6DJ8 tubes and they are both Telefunken manufactured as evidenced by the diamond in the base of the tube."

 

Many vendors take this position:  If tubes look the same and measure the same, they are a "matched pair." It is important to remember that most vendors have a rather limited knowledge of the tubes they sell. In fact, many do not really know what it is they have. Again, if these tubes were manufactured in different factories and/or at different times, then they are not what I could call a "matched pair." On the other hand, if these tubes sound great, and didn't cost an arm and leg, it is probably best to just relax and enjoy them.

 

But in the future, when shopping for "matched pairs", one should always be a little suspicious, as the phrase typically means no more than this vendor states. Again, unless they were manufactured in the same factory, at the same time (or in the case of Philips, have the same change code), and have closely matched measurements, they are not a true matched pair.

 

If I cannot see the production codes in their photos, I always ask them to give them to me. And if possible, I ask for a picture, so I can see the the codes myself. And if the vendor refuses or ignores me, I pass.

post #4097 of 12724
Quote:
Originally Posted by MWSVette View Post
 


What is the Russian equivalent of a 6922 or 7308, gold pins, balanced triodes and the like? 

 

I have a set of 6n23p 1977 grey shield, I think I bought them from you.  Would those tubes be more like the standard 6dj8.

 

Thanks


Hi - the 6n23p is a direct replacement for the 6922 and E88CC.  The CCa are 6922/E88CC that were selected for low noise to be used in military equipment and by the German and Dutch post.  The 7308/E188CC was a hardier military version of the 6922. The UK also produced an equivalents the CV2492/3 - the CV 4109 I believe was their low noise version.  (EDIT: Correction the CV2492 is equivalent to the 6922/E88CC/6N23P, the CV 2493 the low noise version, equivalent to the CCa.  The CV4108 is equivalent to the 7308/E188CC.)

 

The 6DJ8 is equivalent to the ECC88,  They are equivalent to the 6922 but the 6922 has a max voltage of 220 volts. The 6DJ8 has a max voltage of 120-130 volts. You can put a 6922 in a 6dj8 circuit but not always the other way around.  The max voltage of the 6n23p is 300 volts and maybe a reason they are more durable and can be used in some equipment that will just 'eat' 6922's.

 

ECC88/6DJ8's are rated to 5,000 hours of life new, the 6922/E88CC/6N23P to 10,000 hours.

 

Here are the parameters from Audio Asylum:

 

ECC88 = 6DJ8-- 130V/1,8W

E88CC= 6922 -- 220V/1,8W

E188CC= 7308 -- 250V/2W

6H23p Sovtek 6922-- 300V/1,8W

6H23p-EB/ EH 6922-- 300V/2W

-so actually, the plain 6H23p has a rating like a 6922 and the -EB is more E188CC / 7308.

 

They are all 6.3 volt tubes - unlike the PCC88, 7DJ8s which are 7 volt.

 

I have tried many of the 6N23P-EV and -EB, they don't sound nearly as good as the '70s vintage 6N23P's.

 

Hope that helps!

 

PS How do you like the '77 gray 6N23P's?

 

Edit PPS Corrections.


Edited by rb2013 - 12/6/14 at 12:41pm
post #4098 of 12724

The CV2492 is a E88CC / 6922, the CV2493 is a E88CC - 01 or one selected for noise performance (the UK CCa). The CV4108 is like a 7308 and the CV4109 is a CV4108 with flying leads instead of pins. [Tubemonger sell a version of CV4109 with an added soldered pin adapter attached  and this converted CV4109s now with pins as opposed to flying leads is to all intents is a CV4108 or 7308].

post #4099 of 12724
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post
 


Hi - the 6n23p is a direct replacement for the 6922 and E88CC.  The CCa are 6922/E88CC that were selected for low noise to be used in military equipment and by the German and Dutch post.  The 7308/E188CC was a hardier military version of the 6922. The UK also produced an equivalent the CV2492/3 - the CV 4109 I believe was their low noise version.

 

The 6DJ8 is equivalent to the ECC88,  They are equivalent to the 6922 but the 6922 has a max voltage of 220 volts. The 6DJ8 has a max voltage of 120-130 volts. You can put a 6922 in a 6dj8 circuit but not always the other way around.  The max voltage of the 6n23p is 300 volts and maybe a reason they are more durable and can be used in some equipment that will just 'eat' 6922's.

 

ECC88/6DJ8's are rated to 5,000 hours of life new, the 6922/E88CC/6N23P to 10,000 hours.

 

Here are the parameters from Audio Asylum:

 

ECC88 = 6DJ8-- 130V/1,8W

E88CC= 6922 -- 220V/1,8W

E188CC= 7308 -- 250V/2W

6H23p Sovtek 6922-- 300V/1,8W

6H23p-EB/ EH 6922-- 300V/2W

-so actually, the plain 6H23p has a rating like a 6922 and the -EB is more E188CC / 7308.

 

They are all 6.3 volt tubes - unlike the PCC88, 7DJ8s which are 7 volt.

 

I have tried many of the 6N23P-EV and -EB, they don't sound nearly as good as the '70s vintage 6N23P's.

 

Hope that helps!

 

PS How do you like the '77 gray 6N23P's

 

 

 

 

 

They sound much better than the stock tubes that came with my Lyr.  Actually I really like the sound.  That's why I was wondering if there was anything even better in the Russian line.

post #4100 of 12724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic Rhodes View Post
 

The CV2492 is a E88CC / 6922, the CV2493 is a E88CC - 01 or one selected for noise performance (the UK CCa). The CV4108 is like a 7308 and the CV4109 is a CV4108 with flying leads instead of pins. [Tubemonger sell a version of CV4109 with an added soldered pin adapter attached  and this converted CV4109s now with pins as opposed to flying leads is to all intents is a CV4108 or 7308].


+1 thanks for the clarification - especially about the flying leads part.  I had been considering the CV4109.

post #4101 of 12724
Quote:
Originally Posted by MWSVette View Post
They sound much better than the stock tubes that came with my Lyr.  Actually I really like the sound.  That's why I was wondering if there was anything even better in the Russian line.


There are better then the '77 6N23P - but not by version, better years and constructions.

 

I'll repost my review from the old thread - on the Voskhod Rockets.  This review pertains to the plate post version, subsequently I discovered the very, very rare '74 and '75 Reflektors with the single wire getter posts(the only two years these were made at the Reflektor factory that I have seen).  The silver shield version of these are extraordinary in my extensive listening (on the Lyr, in 2 amps and in my DAC - in three different systems - one headphone, two speaker driven).   My #1 being the '75,  I call them 'Holy Grails' and the #2 the '74s.  I use the HGs in all of my systems - four pairs in total.

 

The '75 Voskhods gray shields are excellent as well - in both the plate post version and single wire getter post versions.  All very rare.

 

This was originally posted on page 574, post #8606 on the old thread - back on 7/07/13:

 

Quote:
 

So here is my current ranking:

 

All Voskhod Rockets 6n23p Kaluga factory:

 

#1 1975 Gray Shields - Supreme detail, coupled with this magical flow or liquidity to the music...just draws you in.  I try to read while listening to my headphones.  These just make you drop the book and turn the volume up.  Sit back and enjoy the ride as they sweep you away.  Rich textured tone, deep extended tight bass...Who said the HD800 have wimpy bass!  Not with these.  Sound stage - surround sound, reflected sounds actually project behind you!  As well as wall to wall and 30 ft deep in front, with tons of air blooming from each instrument.  The effect enhanced by closing your eyes.  I did this last night...for 4 hours!  Dead quite, zero floor noise, the incredible details just project from inky blackness...you really notice this at the end of songs as they fade into this deep black silence.  The next track re-emerging, building, as you forget how high you've set the volume!  Never harsh or brittle - and here is the magic, even at higher volume levels.  Levels that would have you diving, on most other non-Super V-R tubes, to turn down as the etch becomes annoying.

With the sweet nature of these tubes, it allows you to add this additional volume, the sound becomes enveloping.  You're really projected into a different venue.  What the high end headphone experience is all about!

These are my new reference tubes - so I will describe the other V-Rs based on these.

 

#2 1975 Silver Shields - these are almost a tie for first.  They actually have even more detail!  But lack a bit of the liquid flow that's so captivating on the '75 grays.

Also have the tonal richness and sweet character.  Likewise the same bass extension and tightness.  Ditto for the sound stage as above.

 

#3 1978 Silver Shields - Just a bit less detail then above.  Great flow, slightly smaller sound stage - but still wide and deep compared to most tubes.

 

#4 1976 Gray Shields - A little less detail again.  Good flow - the sound stage is very good.

 

#5 1977 Silver Shields - Very detailed, a little more analytical.  Nice harmonically rich tone - The Prince of V-Rs.

 

#6 1974 Gray Shields - Very nice tube.  Liquid mid range, sweet tonality.  A slight reduction in the ultimate detail retrieval and sound stage width and depth. Good bass.

 

#7 1979 Silver Shields - Amazing detail and mid-range liquidity.  This is were, what I refer to as the 'Super-Voskhods', starts.

 

#8 1980 Silver Shields - Awesome tube - borders on greatness.  Lacks the extreme detail of the above mentioned tubes.  Also - not quite the tonal richness (would not recommend added volume with these)

 

#9 1979 Gray Shields - With the '79s and '80s the Silver variant is better - More detailed.  That's not true after '79 - in fact the 'King' is the '75 Grays.

 

#10 The 1981 -1989s Gray or Silver - Good tubes, won't bowl you over.  Pleasant to listen to.

 

After that - the 1990s on - pretty pedestrian.  These and the '81-'89s are what's pretty much typical of what's available now on E-bay and through the Russian Dealers.  I hope they don't sour folks on the Voskhod magic.  

 

This is just a mini-preview.  I'll go into more detail with pictures in my review.  I still have to hear the '73s and '72s - but the structure of these is different.  Similar to some '70s Reflecktors.  So I'm not expecting much.

 

Happy Listening!

 

Edit - added a picture of what I mean by Silver and Gray Shields - which is the standard convention for the Siemens CCa.  Others, like pooters refers to the plate running through the middle of the top mica as the 'shield'.  Sorry for the confusion...but I have to stay with traditional 6922 tube conventions.  All of the above evaluations are based on my identification method.  I have run across Voskhod's with silver 'grids' and gray shields, that wide or narrow tab sticking up through the middle of the tube's top mica, may not be the best determinant of the 'shield' color.

 

 

As described by a Siemens CCa tube expert:

 

"The "shield" is the "gray" or "shiny silver" plate (electrostatic shield) that is situated between 

the 2 gray dual triode plates inside a framed grid tube, such as a 6922, 6DJ8 and 7308."


Edited by rb2013 - 12/6/14 at 12:15pm
post #4102 of 12724

Anyone have any recommendations for tubes for the HD800?

I don't find them bright at all, so no worries about needing to tone down the treble.

 

Budget sub 100$ please, don't have much to spend now that I bought hd800's

post #4103 of 12724
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenLays View Post
 

Anyone have any recommendations for tubes for the HD800?

I don't find them bright at all, so no worries about needing to tone down the treble.

 

Budget sub 100$ please, don't have much to spend now that I bought hd800's


I use the Hd800s with the Lyr - they sound really great with the Voskhod Rocket 6N23Ps

post #4104 of 12724

I got to say with these Telefunken tubes, the upper midrange in the LCD-2F really comes to life.  

I had to EQ the upper mids when using the LCD-2F with the Lyr 2 stock tubes.  But with the Telefunkens, I'm finding it unnecessary. 

The Telefunken's really have a glorious mid and upper mids.  It's breathes life to the vocals and guitar making everything sound more open and airy.


Edited by sling5s - 12/9/14 at 10:32am
post #4105 of 12724

Researching the UK 6DJ8/6922 variants as I'm looking to acquire a pr for a Lyr tube shootout  - so far I have lined up:

 

1 Pr of Valvo/Philips E88CC Heerlen Double O Getter, 1960's

1 Pr of Philips MiniWatt E188CC SQs

1 Pr of Telefunken '60s E88CC

1 Pr of Relfektor 6N23P '75 Silver Shield SWGP 'Holy Grails'

1 Pr of Relfektor 6N23P '74 Silver Shiled SWGP

1 Pr of Voskhod 6N23P '75 Gray Shields

1 Pr of NEVZ 6N1P-E '66 Triple mica, Black Box Anodes

 

Looking for a nice pr of CV2492 or CV2493

 

As I've been researching more about these tubes I came across an interesting thread on AA about them:

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tubes&m=134502

 

For those curious about these interesting vintage tubes, a few quotes to note:

 

Quote:
  • Posted by Reverb (A) on January 19, 2004 at 14:23:52
A number of inmates have commented on the similarities between the Ediswan CV5358/CV2492 and the Mullard 6DJ8/6922. Both are warm, lush, dimensional, textured, and somewhat euphoric. An added benefit of the Ediswan CV5358/CV2492s are their apparent ability to operate in "difficult" preamps without succumbing to premature failure or going microphonic. That's exactly what I'm seeking .. a robust tube with the sonic qualities of a Mullard 6DJ8/6922.

 

Quote:

Of possible help... - TH 20:44:21 01/19/04

I think the earliest versions of Mullard (and related family) 6922's (CV2492 designation) have what is known as crinkle-glass. Not a smooth and clear bottle but a slightly textured looking or very slightly opaque glass envelope. Shortly thereafter chronologically there was a switch to the designation of CV2493 (also can be found labeled E88CC-01 which I think may be a lower noise or better matched halves version). A theoretically and most likely an actually improved tube.

*Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while since I visited the subject.

I've used both the CV2492 crinkle-glass and the later E88CC-01, both sounded warm and pleasant to my ears. Not the last word in resolution, especially at the bottom octaves but quite fine to listen to. Nice vocals for sure. Definitely not hard and thin sounding. The early version with crinkle-glass has a reputation for being consistently noisy in high gain settings similar to the early 6922 pinched waist Amperex. I personally would not try to use it in a position where it is run hard, it will doubtfully have good sound for any period of longevity.

 
Quote:
 
Never heard of ECC88's being descibed as 'euphoric' before , don't you mean 'euphonic' ? Just to clear up some information : Ediswan, Brimar, Thorn, AEI and Mazda were the same company . GEC was a rival company . Both rebranded other manufacturer's valves . I have never seen GECmanufactured 6DJ8 variants , only rebrands . CV2492 is in fact an uprated gold-pin 6DJ8 , known as the E88CC which was an instrumentation grade valve . CV5358 is different to the CV2492 , it's just another government designator for a standard 6DJ8/ECC88 type variant , the ones I've seen in the past looked like 'garden' Mullard ECC88/6DJ8's nothing else . The one's to look for IMO are the CV2493 / E88CC-01 . If you want Mullards on the cheap look for PCC88 ;)
Quote:
 
...All of my “garden variety” Mullards, from the highly coveted 10M Series 6DJ8s and 1958 Type 1 6922s down to the lowly PCC88/7DJ8s (yes, I own those too) have the unique ability to cast a vivid three-dimensional soundstage, while conveying a natural warmth and lush immediacy, with layers of delicate detail. Speakers become sort of irrelevant because the instruments and vocalists are right there with the listener. That’s why Mullards are so highly coveted ……. if you are not experiencing this effect, maybe its time for a component upgrade. 
 

Included on this list is the Ediswan CV5358/CV2492, which rumor has it, sounds just like a Mullard 6DJ8/6922 .... and that is what I’m seeking.

I suspect the Ediswan CV5358s shown on Kevin’s site and on teltone.com were actually made by Brimar. I also believe the GEC CV2492s I recently purchased were made by Brimar, in their Rochester factory. They are labeled KB/AD, with the AD designation indicating the vacuum pumping process was completed in the Thorn-AEI (Brimar) Rochester plant. However, Thorn-AEI had several plants in England (Tottenham, Enfield, Footscray, etc) and I’m afraid my CV2492s came from the wrong one, because they just don't sound anything like those incredible Mullards.

 

It's these Mullard/Ediswan CV5358/CV2492's I'm looking for.

post #4106 of 12724
Quote:
Originally Posted by sling5s View Post
 

I got to say with these Telefunken tubes, the upper midrange in the LCD-2F really comes to life.  

I had to EQ the upper mids when using the LCD-2F with the Lyr 2 stock tubes.  But with the Telefunkens, I'm finding it unnecessary. 

The Telefunken's really have a glorious mid and upper mids.  It's breathes life to the vocals and guitar making everything sound more open and airy.

 

X2.  The LYR + the Telefunken's is a great match with the LCD-2F.

post #4107 of 12724
Quote:
Originally Posted by sling5s View Post
 

I got to say with these Telefunken tubes, the upper midrange in the LCD-2F really comes to life.  

I had to EQ the upper mids when using the LCD-2F with the Lyr 2 stock tubes.  But with the Telefunkens, I'm finding it unnecessary. 

The Telefunken's really have a glorious mid and upper mids.  It's breathes life to the vocals and guitar making everything sound more open and airy.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pfillion View Post
 

 

X2.  The LYR + the Telefunken's is a great match with the LCD-2F.


So how is the bass with the Telefunkens????

post #4108 of 12724
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMoJo View Post
 

 

 


So how is the bass with the Telefunkens????


More tight, controlled and punchy. 

post #4109 of 12724
rb2013




Researching the UK 6DJ8/6922 variants as I'm looking to acquire a pr for a Lyr tube shootout - so far I have lined up:



1 Pr of Valvo/Philips E88CC Heerlen Double O Getter, 1960's

1 Pr of Philips MiniWatt E188CC SQs

1 Pr of Telefunken '60s E88CC

1 Pr of Relfektor 6N23P '75 Silver Shield SWGP 'Holy Grails'

1 Pr of Relfektor 6N23P '74 Silver Shiled SWGP

1 Pr of Voskhod 6N23P '75 Gray Shields

1 Pr of NEVZ 6N1P-E '66 Triple mica, Black Box Anodes



Looking for a nice pr of CV2492 or CV2493


Hey Bob...how about some early 60's S&H Cca's ???
post #4110 of 12724
Quote:
Originally Posted by billerb1 View Post

rb2013




Researching the UK 6DJ8/6922 variants as I'm looking to acquire a pr for a Lyr tube shootout - so far I have lined up:



1 Pr of Valvo/Philips E88CC Heerlen Double O Getter, 1960's

1 Pr of Philips MiniWatt E188CC SQs

1 Pr of Telefunken '60s E88CC

1 Pr of Relfektor 6N23P '75 Silver Shield SWGP 'Holy Grails'

1 Pr of Relfektor 6N23P '74 Silver Shiled SWGP

1 Pr of Voskhod 6N23P '75 Gray Shields

1 Pr of NEVZ 6N1P-E '66 Triple mica, Black Box Anodes



Looking for a nice pr of CV2492 or CV2493


Hey Bob...how about some early 60's S&H Cca's ???


That would be nice  :wink_face:  - you wouldn't have a spare pair laying around you wouldn't mine lending to me? :etysmile:

 

After owning many Siemens (including many early 60's Gray Shield CCa's and '70s silver shields)- I have to say I'm not a fan of the Siemens 'house sound' (the early '60s being an exception, but $500+ a pr is ridiculous).  I'm a tone guy all the way.  I like a natural rich tone to my sound (partly why I'm into tubes so much).  But I also like detail, transparency and clarity - hard to find together with rich tone.  I have (the HGs)  - but would like to flesh-out all the possibilities in the 'rich tone' class - so I'm curious about the CV2492/2493/5358 .  I have sold my Amperex PWs (just to over the top euphonic) and unfortunately the 6922 CEP-USNs that I bought failed testing on arrival.  I would like to add those as well.

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