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Schiit Lyr Tube Rollers - Page 165

post #2461 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Tactful View Post

Thanks rb! I've been on a ton of forums for a lot of different things from cars, to computers, to consoles, and more...no one has ever known their Schiit like you seem to, thanks for all the insight!
Thanks again! Good luck in your rolling! smily_headphones1.gif
post #2462 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by stjj89 View Post

Any recommendations for a tube that has the smoothness of the OGs but tighter, punchier bass response? (More air would be an added plus)
Checkout my ad in the classifieds for the '74 Voskhod Gray shields SWGP.

Cheers!
smily_headphones1.gif
post #2463 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post


I have not spent a lot of time with the Bifrost, but did hear it at my friends house. I think it's an awesome audio bargain at the price. I didn't even mention it in my comments, just offering another lower cost possiblity for folks to consider.

I have had about a half dozen different dacs over the years, including some really nice solid state ones. To my ears the tube ones with the right tubes offer a more natural rich tonality, a better presented holographic soundstage, and usually better dynamics. But all tube dacs are not the same, as all ss dacs aren't. I finally settled on the ridiculusly expensive APL NWO for my main system and the Xindak dac5 for the office. But I would love to try a few of the newer ss dacs like the Auralic Vega.

In my 20yrs plus I've kinda been in both places. In the beginning going through all kinds of solid state gear from Krell, and Pass, and a host of others. Lots of boom sizzle, but always left me lacking. I then went totally tube bonkers - going through many 300b, KT88, EL34 amps, all tube preamps, etc. These had a wondeful rich lush tone but lacked quick dynamics, bass control, were unnatural (euphonic) in sonic signature. I then discovered the hybrid design, merging the best of each, audio Nirvana! The Lyr fits that model, I sold my all tube Woo WA6SE for the Lyr. The Lyr was way more exciting and an incredible bargain. So I'm not really a 'tubes or nothing' guy. I go for the best possible sound where ever it comes. With dacs, I just haven't heard a ss that lights my fire.

Which tube dacs have you compared to the Bifrost?

Cheers!

beerchug.gif

PS I'd love to see Sch**t come out with a dac, modeled on the lyr. A 6922 tube BiFrost - that would be killer!

PSS I've had a couple of dacs that offer both ss and tube outputs like the Xindak 5 and I had not to long ago the excellent Eastern Electric Mini Max dac plus. The Mini Max plus even had opamp sockets on the ss side, so you could roll opamps like we roll tubes. I did a lot of research on the different opamps, there are some good ones out there. I like thier design vs a hard soldered opamp or discrete output. But again, to my ears a good 12au7 sounded better. If it took the 6922, I probably would have kept it. BTW my APL uses a 20 dac chip stack of AKM 32bit dacs per channel, the Bifrost uses the AKM as well. Many have raved about the Sabre ESS 32bit dacs, the Mini Max uses the Sabre 9018. I prefered the APL, no surprise. The NWO is a no compromise design. But I'd say for $1000 the Mini Max dac plus is a winner.




http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1212/eastern_electric_minimax_dac_plus.htm

Thanks for all the background on how you have come to where you are now. The only tube DAC I have listened to is the Sonic Frontiers P-3 in a friends large living room speaker setup, not in comparison to the Bifrost. I own DAC's with Wolfson and Sabre chips but prefer the AKM/Bifrost, a huge upgrade for me. After using SS for most of my audio journey, the Lyr is my first headphone tube component and I really love the sound and "rolling" various tubes. That same friend also has another setup using a Bryston BDA-2, but the SF P-3 is the best DAC I have heard.

post #2464 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by satwilson View Post

Thanks for all the background on how you have come to where you are now. The only tube DAC I have listened to is the Sonic Frontiers P-3 in a friends large living room speaker setup, not in comparison to the Bifrost. I own DAC's with Wolfson and Sabre chips but prefer the AKM/Bifrost, a huge upgrade for me. After using SS for most of my audio journey, the Lyr is my first headphone tube component and I really love the sound and "rolling" various tubes. That same friend also has another setup using a Bryston BDA-2, but the SF P-3 is the best DAC I have heard.
That Sonic Frontiers is some sweet dac! I wouldn't mind giving one a spin some time. Imagine with a quad of HGs! And that's one of the issues with tubed equipment in general, they get reviewed with the stock tubes. Most of us here know what a tremendous leap in sound top tubes make.

The Birost Uber uses a similar output as the Asgard 2, class A JFET. Has anyone compared the Asgard 2 to the Lyr with top tubes? If so please comment on which you prefered. I haven't heard the Asgard 2 so I can't comment, but I'm pretty sure the Lyr (again with totl tubes) is better.
post #2465 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post


That Sonic Frontiers is some sweet dac! I wouldn't mind giving one a spin some time. Imagine with a quad of HGs! And that's one of the issues with tubed equipment in general, they get reviewed with the stock tubes. Most of us here know what a tremendous leap in sound top tubes make.

The Birost Uber uses a similar output as the Asgard 2, class A JFET. Has anyone compared the Asgard 2 to the Lyr with top tubes? If so please comment on which you prefered. I haven't heard the Asgard 2 so I can't comment, but I'm pretty sure the Lyr (again with totl tubes) is better.

I have performed that comparison as I had had an Asgard 2 on BO for months and got a Lyr in the meantime. When I finally received it I did a full evaluation for about 10days.  The Asgard 2 is a fine amp especially at its price. It is very quiet and has a neutral sonic signature. I found it equivalent to the Lyr with stock tubes using my HD700s though a bit quieter.  However, it did not compare as well with my Lorenz Stuttgart 6922 tubes in place. The improvement in low level spatial detail and "you are there" dimensionality was significant and clearly supported its $200+tubes up charge.  The instruments revealed themselves instead of simply the sound that emanated from them.  I have some live classical recordings that I engineered that I use in my comparisons and the sense of what I heard live is captured with the Lyr and and now Lyr 2 with upgraded tubes. As the HD700's are super-aural with angled drivers as the Stax Lambda's I have previously owned, they have the ability to project an image in front of the head with high quality spatially recorded performances. The Lyr allows this to come through where it was largely absent in the Asgard.  I have one particular recording of a solo classical guitar that was done with a coincident pair of Schoeps mics (Blumlein technique) 

This recording method is great for capturing a "concert audience" perspective as it picks up all the room cues in proper time and level. While not as spatially accurate as a binaural method it works well for both stereo speaker and headphone use. This recoding took place in a great room that also was set up to play it back and thus we were able to perform the veritable "is it live or..." evaluations. The Lyr with proper tubes gets over the bar in recovering this detail that gets me immersed into the actual performance and not simply listening to the equipment reproduce the recording. On this basis I fine the Lyr+ to have a performance/value position right above the knee of the curve. Hope this helps. 

post #2466 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-sf View Post

I have performed that comparison as I had had an Asgard 2 on BO for months and got a Lyr in the meantime. When I finally received it I did a full evaluation for about 10days.  The Asgard 2 is a fine amp especially at its price. It is very quiet and has a neutral sonic signature. I found it equivalent to the Lyr with stock tubes using my HD700s though a bit quieter.  However, it did not compare as well with my Lorenz Stuttgart 6922 tubes in place. The improvement in low level spatial detail and "you are there" dimensionality was significant and clearly supported its $200+tubes up charge.  The instruments revealed themselves instead of simply the sound that emanated from them.  I have some live classical recordings that I engineered that I use in my comparisons and the sense of what I heard live is captured with the Lyr and and now Lyr 2 with upgraded tubes. As the HD700's are super-aural with angled drivers as the Stax Lambda's I have previously owned, they have the ability to project an image in front of the head with high quality spatially recorded performances. The Lyr allows this to come through where it was largely absent in the Asgard.  I have one particular recording of a solo classical guitar that was done with a coincident pair of Schoeps mics (Blumlein technique) 

This recording method is great for capturing a "concert audience" perspective as it picks up all the room cues in proper time and level. While not as spatially accurate as a binaural method it works well for both stereo speaker and headphone use. This recoding took place in a great room that also was set up to play it back and thus we were able to perform the veritable "is it live or..." evaluations. The Lyr with proper tubes gets over the bar in recovering this detail that gets me immersed into the actual performance and not simply listening to the equipment reproduce the recording. On this basis I fine the Lyr+ to have a performance/value position right above the knee of the curve. Hope this helps. 
Yes, that does! I've read some reviews where the reviewer liked the Asgard 2 better then the Lyr. But that was with the stock tubes. A big leap with a nice set like those Lorentz Stugards. I hope Sch**t reads this thread and one day offers a 6922 output stage Bifrost, they could even use the Lyr case I suppose.

Have you compared the Lyr to the Lyr2?

Well I guess you hit the nail on the head in terms of being able to compare the absolute sound - live good venue, too audio recreation. Very cool mics!

PS I completely agree on the HDs front projection, I love that about my hd800s.
Edited by rb2013 - 7/8/14 at 8:45pm
post #2467 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-sf View Post
 

I have performed that comparison as I had had an Asgard 2 on BO for months and got a Lyr in the meantime. When I finally received it I did a full evaluation for about 10days.  The Asgard 2 is a fine amp especially at its price. It is very quiet and has a neutral sonic signature. I found it equivalent to the Lyr with stock tubes using my HD700s though a bit quieter.  However, it did not compare as well with my Lorenz Stuttgart 6922 tubes in place. The improvement in low level spatial detail and "you are there" dimensionality was significant and clearly supported its $200+tubes up charge.  The instruments revealed themselves instead of simply the sound that emanated from them.  I have some live classical recordings that I engineered that I use in my comparisons and the sense of what I heard live is captured with the Lyr and and now Lyr 2 with upgraded tubes. As the HD700's are super-aural with angled drivers as the Stax Lambda's I have previously owned, they have the ability to project an image in front of the head with high quality spatially recorded performances. The Lyr allows this to come through where it was largely absent in the Asgard.  I have one particular recording of a solo classical guitar that was done with a coincident pair of Schoeps mics (Blumlein technique) 

This recording method is great for capturing a "concert audience" perspective as it picks up all the room cues in proper time and level. While not as spatially accurate as a binaural method it works well for both stereo speaker and headphone use. This recoding took place in a great room that also was set up to play it back and thus we were able to perform the veritable "is it live or..." evaluations. The Lyr with proper tubes gets over the bar in recovering this detail that gets me immersed into the actual performance and not simply listening to the equipment reproduce the recording. On this basis I fine the Lyr+ to have a performance/value position right above the knee of the curve. Hope this helps. 

What a great evaluation! Thanks so much. Your microphone technique is perfect. Once again the Lyr reveals its unbelievable detail and value. RB2013's fascination with this amp given his history of fiscal abandon speaks volumes, (this is not criticism but jealousy RB) Is the solo guitar piece available for others, or a personal treasure? BTW Pat Methenys recent solo recording "What's It All About" has for me the best micro detail and sound of any solo guitar I have heard. I am a guitar player and have always thought the best sound is from the "players" perspective. With the Metheny recording on the Lyr with great tubes and phones, YOU are the "microphone", inches from his guitar. Thanks again for a rare "live" vs "recording" comparison.

post #2468 of 2741

The guitar recording was Music from South America by George Sakellariou.

 

It is out of print and was never made into a CD though occasionally is available used.

 

One additional bit of information, that I am sure will intrigue rb2013, is that the recording was mastered on the only professional tape deck ever to employ nuvistors!  I refurbished an Ampex MR-70 from the mid-1960s that was used for the recording. 

post #2469 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by satwilson View Post

What a great evaluation! Thanks so much. Your microphone technique is perfect. Once again the Lyr reveals its unbelievable detail and value. RB2013's fascination with this amp given his history of fiscal abandon speaks volumes, (this is not criticism but jealousy RB) Is the solo guitar piece available for others, or a personal treasure? BTW Pat Methenys recent solo recording "What's It All About" has for me the best micro detail and sound of any solo guitar I have heard. I am a guitar player and have always thought the best sound is from the "players" perspective. With the Metheny recording on the Lyr with great tubes and phones, YOU are the "microphone", inches from his guitar. Thanks again for a rare "live" vs "recording" comparison.
My abandon was during flusher days! Oh 2007 was very good to me, 2008, 2009 not so much. I've become much more value oriented, I'm always looking for incredible audio value. I have the advantage of knowing what a $80k audio setup sounds like. Those were crazy days at my house, gear boxes arriving and leaving almost daily. I have over 200 transactions on Audiogon! Lots of amp, preamp, cable, tube, speaker...rolling.

Speaking of incredible audio value I've been relishing in these Aural Thrills active bcs interconnects with the Teflon plugs. I just ordered two more, and put my Supra Swords ISLs up for sale. A 2m AT active bcs ic is only $160 with the teflon plugs!! Rewiring all my systems with these. Exquist detail, delicacy, not the warmest cable, but not etched or harsh. The silver takes some breakin. I have 100 hrs on them, they keep getting better.

PS Thanks for the headsup in Pat's Unity Band! Loving Corey Christiansen jazz guitar as well!
Edited by rb2013 - 7/9/14 at 7:11am
post #2470 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark-sf View Post

The guitar recording was Music from South America by George Sakellariou.



It is out of print and was never made into a CD though occasionally is available used.

One additional bit of information, that I am sure will intrigue rb2013, is that the recording was mastered on the only professional tape deck ever to employ nuvistors!  I refurbished an Ampex MR-70 from the mid-1960s that was used for the recording. 
That Ampex multi- track was audio's hieght in the recording studio! Good going! Many of the old jazz recordings made on tubed gear are highly prized and sought after today. Rightly so, the realism was fantastic. I have enjoyed a couple of direct to disc vinyl records - no recording at all. These were put out by Sheffield records. Straight from mic to cutting lathe. Quite dynamic.
post #2471 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post


That Ampex multi- track was audio's hieght in the recording studio! Good going! Many of the old jazz recordings made on tubed gear are highly prized and sought after today. Rightly so, the realism was fantastic. I have enjoyed a couple of direct to disc vinyl records - no recording at all. These were put out by Sheffield records. Straight from mic to cutting lathe. Quite dynamic.

That is correct. I have most of the Sheffield Direct-to-Disc LPs that were mastered by Doug Sax in the late 70's and early 80's. I am particularly fond of a 3 LP set entitled The Moscow Sessions which not only captures the Moscow Philharmonic playing Russian composers but Gershwin and Copland as well. Quite an ear-opening set!  Even if one doesn't have a fine vinyl playback setup, these discs are worth exploring in their CD forms which are still in print. 

post #2472 of 2741

HOLY SCHIIT! So the Bifrost came in the mail today and I can't believe the difference this made with the Lyr....I need my new tubes and I need them now :) If anyone here is considering picking up a Bifrost for their Lyr....DOOOOO IIIITTTTTT =) My mind is literally blown at what this did to the sound.....insanity.

post #2473 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Tactful View Post

HOLY SCHIIT! So the Bifrost came in the mail today and I can't believe the difference this made with the Lyr....I need my new tubes and I need them now smily_headphones1.gif If anyone here is considering picking up a Bifrost for their Lyr....DOOOOO IIIITTTTTT =) My mind is literally blown at what this did to the sound.....insanity.

Nice! What DAC did you upgrade from?
post #2474 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by stjj89 View Post


Nice! What DAC did you upgrade from?


I upgraded from not having one at all =)

post #2475 of 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Almost Tactful View Post


I upgraded from not having one at all =)

 

So you were going analog out (Phono or Tape) to the Lyr's Ins??? ;)  Soundcards count as DACs.

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