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Schiit Lyr Tube Rollers - Page 139

post #2071 of 10940
Quote:
Originally Posted by rb2013 View Post


Oh getting a WA6-SE opens an even bigger tube rolling challenge. It uses tube rectification, and those aren't cheap. As well as driver tubes. Honestly, the Lyr with right tubes is better, at least to my ears. I had my Woo for over a year, so I knew it's sound well. Now I'm a big tube DAC fan, that could be an option. But you may want to look further up the chain. What is your source, cd spinner or computer server?

My setup is as follows:

 

i5 > WD 3TB black > Foobar2000 > asrock z77 extreme4 (mobo) > toslink (optical) > bifrost > lyr > HP

 

Its pretty simple. I'm not looking to achieve summit fi, not yet at least, but I know there is something I can add that will give me a nice boost in sound quality. I just don't know what. 

post #2072 of 10940
Nice front end, but I think your weak link is toslink. I'd replace i twith SPDIF RCA or BNC. My experience is toslink has a rather muffled, limited dynamic quality. It's usually limited to 96k as well.

Second, I would try the SoX free upsampler. I use Foobar, and have tried a number of upsamplers - SoX is the best. And it's free! You can easily turn it off and on as well. Using SoX I upsample my redbook 44k cd file to 176k or 192k depending on which dac I'm using. The sound quailty improves noticeably.

I would also switch to 'Kernal Streaming' mode, play with the buffer settings.

Foobar is wondrfully flexible, and can give you world class sound when setup right.

Good luck!
Edited by rb2013 - 5/27/14 at 7:50am
post #2073 of 10940

@PinkLed

 

I've got a very similar setup, right down to the CPU and ASRock mobo (Z75 Pro3).

 

Why not run USB into the Bifrost?  I've gone back and forth between RCA digital coax (from an M-Audio Delta 192) and USB (both connected to the Bifrost, so comparing is as easy as changing the Output setting in foobar2000 and pressing the button on the Bifrost), and I find I prefer USB, though it's a marginal thing.  I swear I hear a bit better bass via USB, though really, I could go either way.  I've never bothered with the onboard TOSLINK into the Bifrost.  Honestly, I consider that good enough only for my HTPC (digital TV audio).  Snobs unite! ;)

 

So, my advice is to plug a USB cable into the Bifrost (drivers needed, if not already installed), and then do a little A/Bing.  Run in WASAPI Event Mode for both.  WASAPI foobar component is excellent.

 

FWIW, I just use a 2m Amazon Basics cable (the one that glows blue on the ends ;)).  Works just fine in my rig.  I prefer to spend my hundreds on tubes and cans.

post #2074 of 10940
I also would recommend going with an external USB pc to spdif converter. The digital noise inside a pc is terrible, all kind of ps rippling, switching device jitter producing artfacts feeding into the electrical supply. Really just a mess.

I use the excellent Musiland Monitor 3.0 USB http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/and-the-musiland-03-usd/ This unit come with an excellent control panel with vol and balance controls. Very flexible.

Or the M2Tech Hiface.
post #2075 of 10940

I have not heard a sound difference between my Bifrost inputs.  I use USB from my laptop and RCA coax from my DVD player.  YMMV

post #2076 of 10940
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurstonX View Post

@PinkLed


I've got a very similar setup, right down to the CPU and ASRock mobo (Z75 Pro3).

Why not run USB into the Bifrost?  I've gone back and forth between RCA digital coax (from an M-Audio Delta 192) and USB (both connected to the Bifrost, so comparing is as easy as changing the Output setting in foobar2000 and pressing the button on the Bifrost), and I find I prefer USB, though it's a marginal thing.  I swear I hear a bit better bass via USB, though really, I could go either way.  I've never bothered with the onboard TOSLINK into the Bifrost.  Honestly, I consider that good enough only for my HTPC (digital TV audio).  Snobs unite! wink.gif

So, my advice is to plug a USB cable into the Bifrost (drivers needed, if not already installed), and then do a little A/Bing.  Run in WASAPI Event Mode for both.  WASAPI foobar component is excellent.

FWIW, I just use a 2m Amazon Basics cable (the one that glows blue on the ends wink.gif ).  Works just fine in my rig.  I prefer to spend my hundreds on tubes and cans.
I think Sch**t improved the built in USB to support Asynchronous 2.0 USB. But it was an option on the BiFrost? Also, I think folks have had good sucess with the Uber upgrade board.

Well, your Amazon Basics cable may 'work fine' but a higher quailty spdif rca cable will improve the sound. Of course until you hear a better cable, it's hard to know what you're missing. It's that additive, subtractive thing about audio - you know when something sounds better when you hear it...but if you never hear it...

I've had about a dozen usb cables between my Musiland and pc servers - they each had a different sound quaility. Of course there is a point of diminishing returns. I use Audiogon and buy my cables used (usually 1/2 of new)m and resell them for pretty close to what I paid. This gives a way of listening to different cables at min cost.

So far the best is the Synergistic Research Tesla USB & Silnote Poseidon USB. Worst was the Cardas blue USB.
In case any one was wondering.

Edit: Sorry those were my picks for top Spdif rca to rca digital cables. The Synergistic Research Tesla Digital and Creative Cable Green Hornet Spdif rca
Edited by rb2013 - 5/27/14 at 8:46pm
post #2077 of 10940
Thanks RB and Thurston. When I bought my Bifrost I took the non usb option because on head-fi most of what I saw said it was not necessary. Just ordered the Usb upgrade. Shouldn't be to hard to install. The Uber upgrade was very easy. Its seems like the easiest option as I do not have a coaxial out for my PC and most of the sound cards that have them are around 200$. Plus with 2 graphics cards a wireless card and some other stuff, I dont think I have any more room on the mobo for a sound card. The USB part is only 100$ for the Bifrost. Just purchased a Norse cable as well for my HD800s. Thanks again guys, sorry to everyone as well for going a bit off track to the tube discussion.  
post #2078 of 10940
One other note. I use the excellent Aqvox USB linear power supply. This completely removes the USB pc or dac power supply from feeding the interface. It's replaced with a very clean filtered linear power supply. And it's not to expensive. I notice a blacker background and more dynamics. I've played with battery power supplies, but they alwaysseemed to limit the dynamics. I used a battery supply with the Hiface EVO.

http://www.aqvox.de/usb-power_en.html
post #2079 of 10940
Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkLed View Post

Nice! Very reasonable cost. Once setup, try 'Kernal Streaming' vs WASAPI to see which sounds better. Also give SoX a try, upsampling to 192k. See if it doesn't improve the sound.

Good luck!
post #2080 of 10940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuco1965 View Post

I have not heard a sound difference between my Bifrost USB from my laptop and RCA coax from my DVD player.  YMMV
Those should be pretty close. It's optical toslink spdif that's inferior. I did some research on this some time ago. It's the very cheap opto-electrical converters typically used on audio equipment. The benefits of course are galvanic isolation.
post #2081 of 10940

Audibly I find no sonic difference between them.  Anything beyond 16 bit 44.1khz is moot to me.  The mastering is where it's at.  

post #2082 of 10940
Edit
Edited by rb2013 - 5/27/14 at 9:35am
post #2083 of 10940
I was refering to toslink, which I think you mentioned you never bothered with (a good call).

Well today 44/16 is considered 'Hi Res', with itunes pumping out all those mp3s. But heck my kids swear that 128kps mps sounds the same as a 44/16 cd, and they can fit more on their iPhones. I see the utility in that. I have a little mp3 music player for running and for use at the gym. I do use 320kps burns from my wav files, and for the car or gym they sound fine.

70% of my 1500 cd/album collection is Redbook 44/16 (which is equiv to 1411 kps). Almost all new music is only avaible as mp3 dl or cd. That's were the SoX comes in handy. Most dacs can handle at least 176k, the BiFrost 192k - why not use that capability? Digitalization of analog music is a notched approximation of the smooth analog waveform. The higher the bit rates and sampling frequecy the closer the approximation. An upsampler uses interpolation to fill in the notches, so as to recreate the original waveform as closely as possible.

Here is a great white paper on on bit/sampling resolution and audio. There are improvements in inpulse response, wave reconstruction, noise floors, etc...
Just click the link at the bottom of the wiki page.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_eXtreme_Definition
Edited by rb2013 - 5/27/14 at 9:43am
post #2084 of 10940

Supposedly the older usb gen 1 for the bifrost was not up to par with coaxial, but the usb gen 2 is supposedly just as good as coaxial and plays 192 nicely. At least that's the jist I got from a few posts around the web. Im spending too much money now though, new tubes, new cables, dac upgrades, new CDs, new microphone... I could of bought a pair of LCD 3s -_-. 

post #2085 of 10940
Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkLed View Postregarding upgrade to new USBgen2 card
 

I recently took delivery of a new BifrostUber wUSB gen2. It replaced my Audiogd NFB12, and is a huge improvement for me. Quote: This new USB input card for Bifrost and Gungnir improves USB performance across the board, and allows you to enjoy music encoded in 24/176.4. Featuring the C-Media CM6631A receiver and additional isolation and filtering, the Gen 2 USB input outperforms external USB-SPDIF converters that cost several times as much. 


Edited by satwilson - 5/27/14 at 9:51am
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