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REVIEW - Yulong Audio Sabre DA8 Reference DAC - Page 9

post #121 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

USB is already very good, but my AP1+PP is better by a reasonable degree. Aside from extreme cases though, I don't think most disc based transports will beat the native USB. And lower to mid range DDCs won't either.

 

I'm talking higher end on the same line as the AP1+PP or higher.  Say like Off Ramp, Alpha USB, Hydra-X

post #122 of 1350

 

Hello everybody,

what's happened tonight? After 180 hours of burn-in, everything has become excellent, except still a very little "dry" flavor on USB side vs Toslink Input. I finally changed my setting as DAC Upsampling came very closed to computer Upsampling when I do not oversample on USB input. 

Toslink Input is still my prefered one since I still find transients and sound persistence a little better (but very closed for now)… And upsampling fixed to "None" or "2x" are very closed nevertheless… Thanks to burn-in I must admit.

 

So, after 180 hours burn-in, the DAC used as a part of an Audio system with (pre) amplifiers and Loudspeakers, my parameters appear to be definitive with Audirvana+ on Macbook Pro late 2011 16Go RAM, since Optic and USB finally are very closed. This tends to show that burn-in is very important for USB Input anyway. USB Input makes sense to be chosen after probably 200 hours of burn-in:

 

USB Input 

Audio System Settings

- "Preferred Audio Device: Yulong DA8 384K DSD DAC*" --> USB

- "DSD over PCM standard 1.0" to play DSD,

- "Exclusive access mode:  ON"

- "Direct Mode:  ON"

- "Integer Mode: ON" switched on "Mode 1", supported (the green "INT" indicator in the main software Window will show integer mode is effective).

 

Audio Filters Settings

- "Converter: iZotope 64-bit SRC"

- "Quality: Best"

- "Advanced Parameters:

Steepness 0 dB

Filter Max Length: 2.000.000 Samples  (Max)

Cutoff freq: 1,00 xNyquist

Anti-aliasing: 50

Pre-ringing: 1,00

- "Forced Upsampling: "None" or "2x" (have to try on your system)

 

Audio Volume Settings

If you have a very good anagogic volume control, it's preferable and then on DAC, choose "Pure DAC Amplifier OFF" disabling preamp and headphone stage by pressing the knob. Otherwise prefer Audirvana Volume Control and avoid the DAC one, I didn't find it very good for not saying something else.

 

- "Volume control type: Software only" (if you have not an analogic volume control)

- "Dithering type: MBIT+"

- "Shape: medium"

- "Level: high"

- "Other parameters (Auto-Blanking, Minimize peaks, Silence Harmonics): ON"

 

Optic Input (Toslink)

Audio System Settings

- "Preferred Audio Device: Optic Output" --> Toslink

- "DSD over PCM standard 1.0" doesn't really matter, limited to Max 96Khz

- "Exclusive access mode:  ON"

- "Direct Mode:  ON"

- "Integer Mode: ON" switched on "Mode 1", not supported (partially in fact) on Toslink Input but convert files to 32bits'. (the green "INT" indicator doesn't appear in the main software Window).

 

Audio Filters Settings

- "Converter: iZotope 64-bit SRC"

- "Quality: Best"

- "Advanced Parameters:

Steepness 0 dB

Filter Max Length: 2.000.000 Samples  (Max)

Cutoff freq: 1,00 xNyquist

Anti-aliasing: 50

Pre-ringing: 1,00

- "Forced Upsampling: "None" or "2x" as you like

 

Audio Volume Settings

If you have a very good anagogic volume control, it's preferable and then on DAC, choose "Pure DAC Amplifier OFF" disabling preamp and headphone stage by pressing the knob. Otherwise prefer Audirvana Volume Control and avoid the DAC one, I didn't find it very good for not saying something else.

 

- "Volume control type: Software only" (if you have not an analogic volume control)

- "Dithering type: MBIT+"

- "Shape: medium"

- "Level: high"

- "Other parameters (Auto-Blanking, Minimize peaks, Silence Harmonics): ON"

 

The Little Jade Dragon on USB Input overslept for 180 hours of burn-in before delivering his best. I feel reassured now.

Thank you for reading.beerchug.gif


Edited by teiki arii - 8/5/13 at 4:54pm
post #123 of 1350

I think the only way to tell if 'burn-in' really changed the hardware is: get a brand new DA8, and compare.

Because I still believe that burn in doesn't change electronics, instead it change people's brain.   Let people get used to new sound characteristics.

Well, doesn't matter I am right or wrong,   one more happy DA8 owner!  congrats!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by teiki arii View Post

This tends to show that burn-in is very important for USB Input anyway. USB Input makes sense to be chosen after probably 200 hours of burn-in:

 

post #124 of 1350

Originally Posted by cwtim01 View Post
It's simple to add galvanic isolation to any DDC,

IMO Yulong never thought about galvanic isoltion. Never. I have old email where I asked him directly about galvanic isolation and where he wrote "it is not necessary" wink.gif

post #125 of 1350

I've finally finished scrolling through all the posts and glad everyone is enjoying their DA8's. Contemplating getting one solely for my LCD-2 rev 2's, but the only issue is how the amp component compares. Ideally I'd like to spend no more than $1500, so I was tossing up between getting the newly released conductor SL 1793/9018 which is well priced at $1250/$1550, or the DA8 as an un-amped unit for the semi-long term. 

 

It seems no comparisons between the two have been made so far, which I assumed was due to the fact that their dac sections are not in the same league (favoring DA8?), and similarly for the amp (favoring conductor?).

 

The review mentioned that the DA8's amp section is somewhere between Yulong's $300 and $700 amp offerings, but I'm a tad skeptical after owning a few 2 in 1 units claiming formidable amp sections. As of recent, I'm using the AudioGD NFB10SE, and previous to that the Burson 160Ds.

 

I preferred the 160Ds back in the day, but finances dictated I had to sell it before making another purchase (audio-GD). 

 

Now, the options are: 

 

1. Stay with the NFB10SE 

2. Burson conductor $1250/$1550

3. Second hand Burson 160D/160Ds ~ $600-700

4. DA8 :O $1300 + postage

 

Aesthetically, I like the Bursons, but I'd like to know how these match up from a purely spec/auditory perspective.

 

Thanks!


Edited by boirefish - 8/6/13 at 12:53am
post #126 of 1350
Originally Posted by yfei View Post
Because I still believe that burn in doesn't change electronics, instead it change people's brain.   Let people get used to new sound characteristics.

Well, doesn't matter I am right or wrong,   one more happy DA8 owner!  congrats!

 

We get used to the sound.
post #127 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by yfei View Post

I think the only way to tell if 'burn-in' really changed the hardware is: get a brand new DA8, and compare.

Hello yfei,

if you red my posts with care, I have compared USB and Optic Inputs and there is a huge difference between the beginning and the end of my listenings.... Besides, I could compare it to my other DACS to assert that it is not a figment of my imagination. I was very surprised actually. I have not written on the forum to tell: "WWaaoooooww, this DAC is the best of the world!" while it didn't sound nice right out of the box. My experience can help I think and people know what to expect if they think it's rubbish; just wait and practice non stop burning for at least 200 hours and then listen to it... Best regards.

One of my friend switched to Optic Input because differences are what they are, but perhaps because burn-in at USB Input is not finished yet... He is so astonished that he doesn't want to listen back to USB for the moment...tongue_smile.gif


Edited by teiki arii - 8/6/13 at 12:59am
post #128 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esprit View Post

IMO Yulong never thought about galvanic isoltion. Never. I have old email where I asked him directly about galvanic isolation and where he wrote "it is not necessary" wink.gif

http://bbs.erji.net/read.php?tid=1477714&page=2&fpage=1

Google translate post #33 and #34 and see for yourself, if you're still not convinced, no issue, just get on enjoying the music biggrin.gif

Believe it or not, when you discuss with Yulong in English, it's not easy for him to express himself.
Edited by cwtim01 - 8/6/13 at 1:20am
post #129 of 1350

Can somebody give me a quick explanation of the various settings for the DA8?

 

Like the Filter Mode, Phase, Jitter Elimination. What are the various settings? What does each setting do exactly? I know what filters do in general of course and I'm wondering why anyone would want to not turn on jitter elimination. Why even have this option to begin with?

 

How can the amp be by-passed? What other setting are there?

 

Been looking at Yulong's site and also in this thread, but can't find the info organized/explained anywhere.

 

BTW What's your favorite setting Project86?

post #130 of 1350

I can't find any information about whether the DA8 over/up-samples or not (I presume it does as there's no mention of it being non-over-sampling on the yulong site). Does anyone know if it over or up samples, and if it does, in what way?


Edited by allsumnull - 8/6/13 at 2:08am
post #131 of 1350
Originally Posted by cwtim01 View Post
Google translate post #33 and #34 and see for yourself, if you're still not convinced, no issue, just get on enjoying the music biggrin.gif

 

June 2013?
Verba volant scripta manent: our mails are earlier (I've sent to him a lot af documents regarding galvanic isolation).
It seemed to me that he was not interested in this hypothetical problem
No problem: every designer has his own ideas (now these statements seem only justification...).

Edited by Esprit - 8/6/13 at 2:30am
post #132 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esprit View Post

June 2013?
Verba volant scripta manent: our mails are earlier (I've sent to him a lot af documents regarding galvanic isolation).
It seemed to me that he was not interested in this hypothetical problem
No problem: every designer has his own ideas (now these statements seem only justification...).

Not sure when was your exchange with him, but maybe you have inspired him finally wink.gif
Edited by cwtim01 - 8/6/13 at 3:46am
post #133 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

Can somebody give me a quick explanation of the various settings for the DA8?

 

Like the Filter Mode, Phase, Jitter Elimination. What are the various settings? What does each setting do exactly? I know what filters do in general of course and I'm wondering why anyone would want to not turn on jitter elimination. Why even have this option to begin with?

 

How can the amp be by-passed? What other setting are there?

 

Been looking at Yulong's site and also in this thread, but can't find the info organized/explained anywhere.

 

BTW What's your favorite setting Project86?


Good questions.

post #134 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

Can somebody give me a quick explanation of the various settings for the DA8?

 

Like the Filter Mode, Phase, Jitter Elimination. What are the various settings? What does each setting do exactly? I know what filters do in general of course and I'm wondering why anyone would want to not turn on jitter elimination. Why even have this option to begin with?

 

How can the amp be by-passed? What other setting are there?

 

Been looking at Yulong's site and also in this thread, but can't find the info organized/explained anywhere.

 

BTW What's your favorite setting Project86?

Filter Mode: Sharp and Slow:

Sharp has a "brickwall" drop right around the Nyquist frequency. It's FR is flat until that brickwall. Moderate amounts of pre and post ringing.

Slow has an earlier drop off in the high frequencies, like a slope, starting around ~15khz but i could be mistaken. Significantly less pre and post ringing. Warmer sound too.

 

Phase + and -

Some music, especially earlier recordings from 50-60's may be out of phase to your headphones. This compensates for those recordings.

 

Jitter Elimination - ON and Bypass:

The earlier Yulong DAC, the D18, was very picky with jittery sources because it used the ESS own input. To compensate for this issue Yulong implemented a proprietary buffer, in turn, this causes the signal to go through more processing. Bypass simply allows you to forego this extra step in the signal path if your source is higher quality.

 

Hope that helps smily_headphones1.gif

post #135 of 1350
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunk View Post

Filter Mode: Sharp and Slow:

Sharp has a "brickwall" drop right around the Nyquist frequency. It's FR is flat until that brickwall. Moderate amounts of pre and post ringing.

Slow has an earlier drop off in the high frequencies, like a slope, starting around ~15khz but i could be mistaken. Significantly less pre and post ringing. Warmer sound too.

 

Phase + and -

Some music, especially earlier recordings from 50-60's may be out of phase to your headphones. This compensates for those recordings.

 

Jitter Elimination - ON and Bypass:

The earlier Yulong DAC, the D18, was very picky with jittery sources because it used the ESS own input. To compensate for this issue Yulong implemented a proprietary buffer, in turn, this causes the signal to go through more processing. Bypass simply allows you to forego this extra step in the signal path if your source is higher quality.

 

Hope that helps smily_headphones1.gif

It does! Thanks!

So the Phase setting really isn't all that useful for modern music?

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