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REVIEW - Yulong Audio Sabre DA8 Reference DAC - Page 78

post #1156 of 1596

Thanks for great review project86!

 

After reading a whole lot of reviews on DACs in this price range I thought I should try DA8 after reading your detailed description. Hopefully I will get it in late next week. I will be using it with Denon D7000, Grado RS1i, Audio-Technica AD900 and hopefully more to come. I also have Firestone little country 3 laying around which I will try hooking up then I am in the mood for some tube sound.

 

Do you know or someone here know what the output impedance is on the headphone amplifier?

 

What is your favorite cans with this particular unit?

post #1157 of 1596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid-Fi View Post

Zashoomin brings up a good point that D18 doesn't have USB so it won't work unless you already have a USB to SPDIF converter, which are pretty expensive. The cheapest decent ones like Musical Fidelity Vlink 192 usually start around $250 with good ones like Audiophilleo 2 costing upward of $600.

Your best bet for the price range is probably a used DAC 100 or a new Nuforce UDH 100 which seems to be the same DAC and Amp as the Nuforce DAC 100 but without all of the extra inputs and outputs etc. both have pretty good USB sections which shouldn't hold you back too much. Here is an amazon link for the cheaper UDH 100.
http://www.amazon.com/Nuforce-UDH-100-SILVER-Class-A-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B00ADX98FC

I have always liked tubes quite a bit with HD 650 but in my experience they usually require higher end tubes to really be worthwhile which can get out of your price range pretty quick. I never heard the Crack with my HD 650 but it is certainly popular. A Woo Audio 6 would be a good tube amp and Woo Audio WA6SE would be awesome.

I think having enough output power and good synergy is more important than tube vs solid state.

First of all thank you and I have to agree with some points but not so much with others.  While I do respect the Nuforce DACs I would say that the D18 is a step above them.  Also you can find a USB interface very easily.  Yulong makes one for $200, so does M2Tech, and Audio-GD.  I am sure that you can find a used one closer to $100 if you look on the for sale forums here or anywhere else.  

 

Secondly I do agree that it is more about synergy than tube or ss but I will say that the Crack sounds amazing even with stock tubes.  It does sound better with higher end tubes but still sound better than the woo stuff.  I think that woo puts too much stock in looks so that is what you are paying for.  With the money you save by getting the crack you can get better tubes and also the speedball upgrade.  Again though it is DIY which is why it is so good for the price, but it is also easy to build and doable by anyone.  

post #1158 of 1596
Sound like all good points from direct experience - thanks. I loved the D18 overall. I am a big fan if its mix of warmth yet still good detail. That being said the Nuforce DAC 100 I think is more open and has more air and separation while still having good detail, although its flavor of being more energetic wasn't as much my cup of tea.

Sounds like the Crack must be pretty impressive if you prefer it to the Woo offerings even with stock tubes. Despite their sleek cases and nice looks, I hold them in high regard.

All things said though, I am becoming somewhat of a huge Yulong fan. In my direct experience for my personal preferences, I haven't found any other offerings that come even close to his gear for delivering exactly what I love at killer prices.

I've been listening to my DA8 and HE 400 for a few hours in a row tonight and just find it incredibly resolving, natural, and immersive. What a killer pairing for the price, especially since I picked up the DA8 for under a grand used and the HE 400 new for $299 instead of the previously standard $399.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zashoomin View Post

First of all thank you and I have to agree with some points but not so much with others.  While I do respect the Nuforce DACs I would say that the D18 is a step above them.  Also you can find a USB interface very easily.  Yulong makes one for $200, so does M2Tech, and Audio-GD.  I am sure that you can find a used one closer to $100 if you look on the for sale forums here or anywhere else.  

Secondly I do agree that it is more about synergy than tube or ss but I will say that the Crack sounds amazing even with stock tubes.  It does sound better with higher end tubes but still sound better than the woo stuff.  I think that woo puts too much stock in looks so that is what you are paying for.  With the money you save by getting the crack you can get better tubes and also the speedball upgrade.  Again though it is DIY which is why it is so good for the price, but it is also easy to build and doable by anyone.  
post #1159 of 1596
Btw Zashoomin, that DA8 Beta 22 LCD3 rig in your profile must be killer. I wish I could check it out biggrin.gif.
post #1160 of 1596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid-Fi View Post

Btw Zashoomin, that DA8 Beta 22 LCD3 rig in your profile must be killer. I wish I could check it out biggrin.gif.

 

If you are ever in the bay area send me a PM :D.  But ya I love the set up so much I am building myself a new beta which I hope will be better than the last one.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid-Fi View Post

Sound like all good points from direct experience - thanks. I loved the D18 overall. I am a big fan if its mix of warmth yet still good detail. That being said the Nuforce DAC 100 I think is more open and has more air and separation while still having good detail, although its flavor of being more energetic wasn't as much my cup of tea.

Sounds like the Crack must be pretty impressive if you prefer it to the Woo offerings even with stock tubes. Despite their sleek cases and nice looks, I hold them in high regard.

All things said though, I am becoming somewhat of a huge Yulong fan. In my direct experience for my personal preferences, I haven't found any other offerings that come even close to his gear for delivering exactly what I love at killer prices.

I've been listening to my DA8 and HE 400 for a few hours in a row tonight and just find it incredibly resolving, natural, and immersive. What a killer pairing for the price, especially since I picked up the DA8 for under a grand used and the HE 400 new for $299 instead of the previously standard $399.

Again the DA8 is world class and the main reason I also didn't get the D18 is because of the lack of the USB.  

 

If you have never heard the hd650s with the crack I highly suggest it.  I think you will be blown away.  Just plain stock it is only $280 so you can't really go wrong.  If you ever have $300 laying around try it out.  It will not be able to power your he-400s though.  

 

The reason the HE-400s are so cheap is because the new models are coming out.  But non the less it is a fantastic headphone.  

post #1161 of 1596
Sounds good. Ill have to take you up on that if I am ever that direction. I'm in Vegas now so feel free to bring them out here if you ever head toward the bright lights for a weekend hehe.

Ill keep that in mind about the crack. I might sell the HD 650 but if I don't ill eventually get a tube amp again and crack might fight the bill.

Wow, I hadn't even heard of the new models yet. A quick search led me to the thread on Head-Fi announcing the HE-400i and HE 560i. It's nice to know there is a likely good upgrade for me in the 560i that is so much lighter and also more sensitive. To me the HE 400 is already borderline too heavy. The HD 650 definitely spoiled in that regard being so light and having extremely comfortable cushions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zashoomin View Post

If you are ever in the bay area send me a PM biggrin.gif .  But ya I love the set up so much I am building myself a new beta which I hope will be better than the last one.  

Again the DA8 is world class and the main reason I also didn't get the D18 is because of the lack of the USB.  

If you have never heard the hd650s with the crack I highly suggest it.  I think you will be blown away.  Just plain stock it is only $280 so you can't really go wrong.  If you ever have $300 laying around try it out.  It will not be able to power your he-400s though.  

The reason the HE-400s are so cheap is because the new models are coming out.  But non the less it is a fantastic headphone.  
post #1162 of 1596

Hey everyone.

Yulong have sent me this amp measurement graph, and I am currently trying to ask for some more rigorous testing for a better overall picture:
It was sent with this text: "This is
 A random sample DA8 amp measurements, by the Single-ended  headphone jack, with a 50 ohm load(Some noise spectrum on interference from Single-ended cables, Indeed rigorous testing would be better)"


Edited by pila405 - 2/24/14 at 12:35am
post #1163 of 1596
Quote:
Originally Posted by pila405 View Post

Hey everyone.


Yulong have sent me this amp measurement graph, and I am currently trying to ask for some more rigorous testing for a better overall picture:

hmmm.. The picture looks like it's neutral.
post #1164 of 1596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid-Fi View Post

Sound like all good points from direct experience - thanks. I loved the D18 overall. I am a big fan if its mix of warmth yet still good detail. That being said the Nuforce DAC 100 I think is more open and has more air and separation while still having good detail, although its flavor of being more energetic wasn't as much my cup of tea.

Sounds like the Crack must be pretty impressive if you prefer it to the Woo offerings even with stock tubes. Despite their sleek cases and nice looks, I hold them in high regard.

All things said though, I am becoming somewhat of a huge Yulong fan. In my direct experience for my personal preferences, I haven't found any other offerings that come even close to his gear for delivering exactly what I love at killer prices.

I've been listening to my DA8 and HE 400 for a few hours in a row tonight and just find it incredibly resolving, natural, and immersive. What a killer pairing for the price, especially since I picked up the DA8 for under a grand used and the HE 400 new for $299 instead of the previously standard $399.

How about paring DA8 with HE500? Spec wise the DA8 deliver slightly less then 1W @50ohm, probably not enough to deploy the HE500 completely, but since good sound comes before fully utilization, wonder what is the synergy of DA8 with planar at similar price point ?
post #1165 of 1596
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pila405 View Post
 

Hey everyone.

Yulong have sent me this amp measurement graph, and I am currently trying to ask for some more rigorous testing for a better overall picture:
It was sent with this text: "This is
 A random sample DA8 amp measurements, by the Single-ended  headphone jack, with a 50 ohm load(Some noise spectrum on interference from Single-ended cables, Indeed rigorous testing would be better)"

 

Thanks for posting that. That's a very good result indeed - extremely clean.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andykong View Post


How about paring DA8 with HE500? Spec wise the DA8 deliver slightly less then 1W @50ohm, probably not enough to deploy the HE500 completely, but since good sound comes before fully utilization, wonder what is the synergy of DA8 with planar at similar price point ?

 

It's a good combo. I've heard better, but it requires a dedicated amp that tends to cost $500 or more (ie Lake People G109, Yulong A18, etc). 

post #1166 of 1596

AFAIK HE-500 is 38Ohms.  DA8 does 1W @ 32Ohms.

 

But lets think about 1W, to me that's a lot.

 

A18 goes up to 1.8W (1800mW) into 32Ohms.   But just 200mW @ 300Ohms (HD800).

 

So the bigger resistance, the more sensible?

 

---

 

I'm thinking to buy this puppy, and already have 3 mods to do it.  One of them would getting rid of OPA1632 (x2) and put solid state in place.

 

Btw, DA8 is expensive, it should be $699~$799 max (sales price) considering the ICs and components on it.

post #1167 of 1596
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
 

AFAIK HE-500 is 38Ohms.  DA8 does 1W @ 32Ohms.

 

But lets think about 1W, to me that's a lot.

 

A18 goes up to 1.8W (1800mW) into 32Ohms.   But just 200mW @ 300Ohms (HD800).

 

So the bigger resistance, the more sensible?

 

---

 

I'm thinking to buy this puppy, and already have 3 mods to do it.  One of them would getting rid of OPA1632 (x2) and put solid state in place.

 

Btw, DA8 is expensive, it should be $699~$799 max (sales price) considering the ICs and components on it.

 

The HD800 is more concerned with voltage rather than current. 200mW is plenty, given adequate voltage swing.

 

Not sure what you mean by "put solid state in place" of the OPA1632. All opamps are solid state in nature. Do you mean some discrete design? OPA1632 are extremely nice opamps, so please don't ruin the device trying to outdo them with some terrible Burson discrete opamp or something. 

 

Regarding price - Yulong has expensive test equipment to pay for, makes numerous prototypes when refining his designs, and uses quality components and enclosures. Don't judge the DA8 by DIY standards because that doesn't work with commercial devices. 

post #1168 of 1596
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post
 

 

The HD800 is more concerned with voltage rather than current. 200mW is plenty, given adequate voltage swing.

 

Not sure what you mean by "put solid state in place" of the OPA1632. All opamps are solid state in nature. Do you mean some discrete design? OPA1632 are extremely nice opamps, so please don't ruin the device trying to outdo them with some terrible Burson discrete opamp or something. 

 

Regarding price - Yulong has expensive test equipment to pay for, makes numerous prototypes when refining his designs, and uses quality components and enclosures. Don't judge the DA8 by DIY standards because that doesn't work with commercial devices. 

+1 I agree all around. Took the words out of my mouth :tongue:

post #1169 of 1596
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

Thanks for posting that. That's a very good result indeed - extremely clean.


It's a good combo. I've heard better, but it requires a dedicated amp that tends to cost $500 or more (ie Lake People G109, Yulong A18, etc). 

Glad to hear that.

Interested that you mentioned G109 along side of A18. I was discussing about G109 vs A28 with my friend earlier on, they are on similar price range,I certainly flavored DA8 + A28 suit but my friends prefer Lake People OTOH.
post #1170 of 1596
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post
Not sure what you mean by "put solid state in place" of the OPA1632. All opamps are solid state in nature. Do you mean some discrete design? OPA1632 are extremely nice opamps, so please don't ruin the device trying to outdo them with some terrible Burson discrete opamp or something.   Don't judge the DA8 by DIY standards because that doesn't work with commercial devices. 

 

OPA is based on IC, therefore it has bad quality inside as well mentioned here:

http://bursonaudio.com/about-us/no-to-ic-opamps/

 

Once you compare OPAs with discrete components (I did) there is no turning back.

 

I tested a lot OPAs with discrete components before (while doing Xonar STX mod), and the one to sound terrible was always with OPAs.  Did you really compared (heard) them?

 

And no, I'm not planning to use Burson for this project.

 

You call "DIY standard" as something bad and not for "commercial devices", but keep in mind the very same USB to I2S used on DA8 did come from DIY:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/216474-usb-i2s-384khz-dsd-converter.html

 

Official site:

http://www.amanero.com

 

I know test equipment costs a lot, but you can always rent them for a project or two, or buying 2nd hand (sometimes can saves a lot).

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