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Comparisons: 22 of the Top Closed/Portable Headphones Around - Page 39

post #571 of 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by GREQ View Post

I wouldn't say the Momentum is like the M50 in terms of being replaced; mainly because of the price difference (If you're a poor student, the M50 is still fantastic value for money), but also because it simply serves different needs and tastes.

If you have smaller than average ears (like me), enjoy the relaxed treble response (like me), prefer its better isolation than the competition (like me), love brown leather (like me) then it's the right choice. 
I like good sound quality (or I wouldn't be here), but what's the point if you can't hear it because the headphones don't isolate as well as it's rivals? (My Momentum is almost used exclusively in outdoor/noisy environments, and excels at its job). 
Thats my main problem with the kef. I usually use my WS99 or Fidelio l1 outside. The l1 isolates about the same as the KEF, but it looks better.
post #572 of 2530

Hey guys, I got the B&W P7 yesterday and just posted my thoughts in the P7 thread. Thought I'd post it here too.

 

So, I've been doing some more listening today, after I let the P7 burn in over night. I'll be mostly comparing these to the Momentum I already have (and sometimes to the Kef M500 which I had for a few days). All this listening was done through a FiiO E07K DAC hooked up to my laptop. All tracks I listened to were FLAC. Here are my impressions so far:

 

The P7 definitely has a wider soundstage than the Momentum. It almost appears like the wider soundstage provides more space for all the instruments to breathe, as instrumental separation is very well done here. By comparison, on the Momentum the instruments sound a bit more bunched up together which sometimes makes some instruments sound less clear. On one track I was listening to, there was this subtle piano in the background and on the P7 I could hear all the individual notes well, whereas on the Momentum a few of the notes blended together. So the detail retrieval of the P7 is very good. If I remember correctly, just as detailed as the M500 if not more.

 

Also, on some songs the vocals sound more separated from the instruments, or better said, the instruments sound more separated from the vocals, whereas on the Momentum I noticed that sometimes the vocals blend in with the instruments. This is also something I noticed when I was comparing the Momentum with the M500 a little while ago, the M500 was better able to separate the vocals from the instruments, although I think it's done better on the P7, as the quality of the vocals is of a similar level of the Momentum (which I really like), but the separation is more like the M500 (which I really like), so in this case it takes the best of those two headphones, in my very humble opinion :)

 

I can also a notice certain depth to the sound, a 3D space so to speak. I can place instruments to the back, front, above, below and of course left/right. At the risk of sounding overly dramatic, I think the P7 accomplishes this really well, I've already experienced a few songs differently than I have ever experienced them before. And speaking of depth and space, I think the P7 comes close to sounding like speakers, that big full sound that fills a room. I think it's mostly due to the wider soundstage and imaging. This was also something I noticed on the M500, that full speaker-like sound, whereas with the Momentum you don't really get that. Those sound just like a headphone, more intimate.

 

In terms of sound signature, it's overall closer to the Momentum than the M500, but with much less rolled-off treble. The M500 and Momentum sound distinctly different to my ears. I do think the mids of the P7 sound slightly nicer than the Momentum, the word luscious keeps coming to mind (and the Momentum already has great mids). There is also a bit more presence to the highs than there is with the Momentum, something which adds to that sense of space. As for the bass, I think the P7 has a very nice sub-bass, similar to the M500, but I also notice a slight mid-bass hump. This mid-bass hump was more apparent when I listend to them right out of the box, but I think a bit of burn-in has mellowed it out a bit. But there is a bit more 'oomph' to the bass compared to the Momentum, again similar to what the M500 achieves. And the bass sounds very well controlled, very tight. And it only really comes out when the recording calls for it. When it does come, it reaches nice and deep though (but perhaps not as deep as the M500 which really has excellent bass response). This bass signature might not be to everyone's taste though, but I certainly like it. I don't think the P7 is warmer than the Momentum, but because there is more oomph behind the bass it might seem that way. 

 

Overall the sound is a bit more clean. By comparison, the Momentum sounds ever so slightly more grainy. And I keep being amazed at the detail retrieval, it's a very pleasant headphone to listen to. Also the attack of the instruments is very well done and there is a shorter decay than on the Momentum, which for me adds to that sence of pace and rhythm, I guess you could also call it agility (again something I also noticed on the M500). There is just more prat on the P7 vs. the Momentum, which I think also makes them sound more fun. I'd say, a very musical headphone. I'm really starting to like them.

 

And for me the comfort is better than the Momentum, the earcups are the right size for my ears on the P7. The Momentum is just too small for my ears so I'm probably going to sell those, as much as I like them otherwise. Comfort is very important to me.

 

For those of you who have ever heard real Bowers & Wilkins speakers, I have to say that the mids on the P7 sound very similar to the mids on their actual speaker line. That typical B&W sound produced by their kevlar mid drivers (the yellow speaker drivers you see on almost all their speakers).

 

You may have noticed that I compared it to the M500 a lot, in a positive way. Well, that's because I really liked the M500 and I think the P7 accomplishes a lot of what makes the M500 great, just with an overall sound signature that's a bit more similar to the Momentum. I didn't end up keeping the M500 because they just started to hurt my ears after a few hours of listening.

 

Anyway, will keep listening to this headphone over the weekend and will then post my final thoughts :)


Edited by starfly - 10/11/13 at 3:25am
post #573 of 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by starfly View Post

Hey guys, I got the B&W P7 yesterday and just posted my thoughts in the P7 thread. Thought I'd post it here too.

So, I've been doing some more listening today, after I let the P7 burn in over night. I'll be mostly comparing these to the Momentum I already have (and sometimes to the Kef M500 which I had for a few days). All this listening was done through a FiiO E07K DAC hooked up to my laptop. All tracks I listened to were FLAC. Here are my impressions so far:

The P7 definitely has a wider soundstage than the Momentum. It almost appears like the wider soundstage provides more space for all the instruments to breathe, as instrumental separation is very well done here. By comparison, on the Momentum the instruments sound a bit more bunched up together which sometimes makes some instruments sound less clear. On one track I was listening to, there was this subtle piano in the background and on the P7 I could hear all the individual notes well, whereas on the Momentum a few of the notes blended together. So the detail retrieval of the P7 is very good. If I remember correctly, just as detailed as the M500 if not more.

Also, on some songs the vocals sound more separated from the instruments, or better said, the instruments sound more separated from the vocals, whereas on the Momentum I noticed that sometimes the vocals blend in with the instruments. This is also something I noticed when I was comparing the Momentum with the M500 a little while ago, the M500 was better able to separate the vocals from the instruments, although I think it's done better on the P7, as the quality of the vocals is of a similar level of the Momentum (which I really like), but the separation is more like the M500 (which I really like), so in this case it takes the best of those two headphones, in my very humble opinion smily_headphones1.gif

I can also a notice certain depth to the sound, a 3D space so to speak. I can place instruments to the back, front, above, below and of course left/right. At the risk of sounding overly dramatic, I think the P7 accomplishes this really well, I've already experienced a few songs differently than I have ever experienced them before. And speaking of depth and space, I think the P7 comes close to sounding like speakers, that big full sound that fills a room. I think it's mostly due to the wider soundstage and imaging. This was also something I noticed on the M500, that full speaker-like sound, whereas with the Momentum you don't really get that. Those sound just like a headphone, more intimate.

In terms of sound signature, it's overall closer to the Momentum than the M500, but with much less rolled-off treble. The M500 and Momentum sound distinctly different to my ears. I do think the mids of the P7 sound slightly nicer than the Momentum, the word luscious keeps coming to mind (and the Momentum already has great mids). There is also a bit more presence to the highs than there is with the Momentum, something which adds to that sense of space. As for the bass, I think the P7 has a very nice sub-bass, similar to the M500, but I also notice a slight mid-bass hump. This mid-bass hump was more apparent when I listend to them right out of the box, but I think a bit of burn-in has mellowed it out a bit. But there is a bit more 'oomph' to the bass compared to the Momentum, again similar to what the M500 achieves. And the bass sounds very well controlled, very tight. And it only really comes out when the recording calls for it. When it does come, it reaches nice and deep though (but perhaps not as deep as the M500 which really has excellent bass response). This bass signature might not be to everyone's taste though, but I certainly like it. I don't think the P7 is warmer than the Momentum, but because there is more oomph behind the bass it might seem that way. 

Overall the sound is a bit more clean. By comparison, the Momentum sounds ever so slightly more grainy. And I keep being amazed at the detail retrieval, it's a very pleasant headphone to listen to. Also the attack of the instruments is very well done and there is a shorter decay than on the Momentum, which for me adds to that sence of pace and rhythm, I guess you could also call it agility (again something I also noticed on the M500). There is just more prat on the P7 vs. the Momentum, which I think also makes them sound more fun. I'd say, a very musical headphone. I'm really starting to like them.

And for me the comfort is better than the Momentum, the earcups are the right size for my ears on the P7. The Momentum is just too small for my ears so I'm probably going to sell those, as much as I like them otherwise. Comfort is very important to me.

For those of you who have ever heard real Bowers & Wilkins speakers, I have to say that the mids on the P7 sound very similar to the mids on their actual speaker line. That typical B&W sound produced by their kevlar mid drivers (the yellow speaker drivers you see on almost all their speakers).

You may have noticed that I compared it to the M500 a lot, in a positive way. Well, that's because I really liked the M500 and I think the P7 accomplishes a lot of what makes the M500 great, just with an overall sound signature that's a bit more similar to the Momentum. I didn't end up keeping the M500 because they just started to hurt my ears after a few hours of listening.

Anyway, will keep listening to this headphone over the weekend and will then post my final thoughts smily_headphones1.gif

Thanks for the sharing! Sound like the P7 is here to replace the Momentum xD
post #574 of 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillsonChang007 View Post


Thanks for the sharing! Sound like the P7 is here to replace the Momentum xD

Hehe, well determine that for yourself of course. I'm sure some people might not like the P7's bass, because no matter how you look at it, it has a slightly stronger presence than the Momentum. But they're certainly not bass heavy, not at all. It's all relative. But it's by no means a neutral headphone, if that's what you're looking for. But I personally find neutral headphones boring :) In the end I want my music to sound fun and the P7 certainly achieves that, while still being very detailed and having luscious mids with a decent amount of treble (the M500 I think has more treble presence than the P7, but the P7 has more than the Momentum).

 

Oh and the bass is not bloated, it sounds well controlled and fairly detailed. The M500 I think has the best bass between the three though, but that's just from memory (I might think differently doing an A/B comparison, but I don't have the M500 anymore).

post #575 of 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillsonChang007 View Post

Thanks for the sharing! Sound like the P7 is here to replace the Momentum xD

If they can make it in brown, I might be convinced :D

post #576 of 2530
The black color design shows how luxury the headphone it is so no big deal!

@Starfly "I'm covering my ears as you speak"!!! (Quote from the song Lalala by Naughty Boy] You making me wanted to buy the B&W P7!
post #577 of 2530
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by starfly View Post
 

Hey guys, I got the B&W P7 yesterday and just posted my thoughts in the P7 thread. Thought I'd post it here too.

 

....

Great write up! I'm planning on picking up a pair when they hit this side of the Atlantic and I'll add them to the original comparison. Looking forward to trying them out.

 

Thanks for your thoughts!

post #578 of 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post
 

Great write up! I'm planning on picking up a pair when they hit this side of the Atlantic and I'll add them to the original comparison. Looking forward to trying them out.

 

Thanks for your thoughts!

Great! I think it'll be helpful to people looking for a headphone to add the P7 to the list :)

post #579 of 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillsonChang007 View Post


Thanks for the sharing! Sound like the P7 is here to replace the Momentum xD

 

Mid-Bass P7 > Momentum > M500*

Mid-Bass P7 > M500 > Momentum*

 

Mids P7 > M500 > Momentum

Vocals P7 > M500 > Momentum

Treble P7 > M500 > Momentum

Soundstage P7 > Momentum > M500

Detail P7 > M500 / Momentum tie

 

Lightest = M500

Comfort = Subjective (though P7 pads are large and surround the outer ear, so no pressure)

Long-term wearing = Subjective as all generate heat. Great as temps dropping in the UK!

Price = M500 / Momentum > P7

 

All my IMO

 

*Generalising, for consumer tastes the Momentum mid-bass quantity will make it preferable to M500 presentation


Edited by LFC_SL - 10/12/13 at 9:31am
post #580 of 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFC_SL View Post
 

 

Mid-Bass P7 > Momentum > M500*

Mid-Bass P7 > M500 > Momentum*

 

Mids P7 > M500 > Momentum

Vocals P7 > M500 > Momentum

Treble P7 > M500 > Momentum

Soundstage P7 > Momentum > M500

Detail P7 > M500 / Momentum tie

 

Lightest = M500

Comfort = Subjective (though P7 pads are large and surround the outer ear, so no pressure)

Long-term wearing = Subjective as all generate heat. Great as temps dropping in the UK!

Price = M500 / Momentum > P7

 

All my IMO

 

*Generalising, for consumer tastes the Momentum mid-bass quantity will make it preferable to M500 presentation

 

So how should I interpret all those things? As in mid bass of P7 is better than M500 / Momentum? Or there is more mid-bass than M500 / Momentum, which is not necessarily a good thing for you?

 

And interesting that you say Soundstage P7 > Momentum > M500. I'd at least say P7 > M500 > Momentum or P7/M500 > Momentum. When I auditioned the M500 I thought it had a great soundstage.

 

Either way, thanks for your thoughts! 

 

P.S. I feel like after about 24+ hours of listening now the mid-bass hump has mellowed out further. On some tracks with the P7 initially a bass guitar would sometimes sound too forward, but I feel like that forwardness of the bass guitar has more or less disappeared now and it blends in with the rest of the music. (But it could just be my imagination though...)

post #581 of 2530

Apologies, clarification

 

Rockbox Clip Zlip

Nexus 4

iMac > Clas -dB > Pico Power (waiting for new iPads)

 

Have been eq'ing the GMP 8.35 D today (:rolleyes:) so kind of un-focussed but would say both in quantity and quality the P7 is 'better' than both the M's but whether it is worth £80 more is entirely subjective.

The GMP 8.35 D fills a particular niche, can throw it across the room without any concern so it is my gym bag phone. Would not want to have a fashion headphone when carrying heavy kit in tow. But can only justify one "fashion headphone" and am finding it hard to listen to the M500

 

For me what is particularly noticeable is that the M500 vocals have a slight nasal quality compared to the P7. To be clear this perception only arose after going back to M500 from P7. Given I rate the neutrality of M500 > Momentum you may draw an inference.

The P7 soundstage and detail is sufficiently good for me to pick out a recurring element in a track and just listen to that throughout

 

In terms of practicalities you can shake your head with P7 on and not worry about it falling off. The looks are killer. If my M500 do not sell will probably give them to my brother and keep them in the family. They are by no means bad at all, no siree. Just that we only have one set of ears...

 

Not really wanting to talk about sub-bass. Have demoed all the top tier cans and as a TH900 owner, perception is inevitably redefined. Listen to first track on The Dark Knight soundtrack, 3min 30 sec in, the song goes all quiet and you get sub-bass. There is only moderate response from this category headphone at best, so cannot single any as good or bad for sub-bass


Edited by LFC_SL - 10/12/13 at 11:03am
post #582 of 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFC_SL View Post
 

Apologies, clarification

 

Rockbox Clip Zlip

Nexus 4

iMac > Clas -dB > Pico Power (waiting for new iPads)

 

Have been eq'ing the GMP 8.35 D today (:rolleyes:) so kind of un-focussed but would say both in quantity and quality the P7 is 'better' than both the M's but whether it is worth £80 more is entirely subjective.

The GMP 8.35 D fills a particular niche, can throw it across the room without any concern so it is my gym bag phone. Would not want to have a fashion headphone when carrying heavy kit in tow. But can only justify one "fashion headphone" and am finding it hard to listen to the M500

 

For me what is particularly noticeable is that the M500 vocals have a slight nasal quality compared to the P7. To be clear this perception only arose after going back to M500 from P7. Given I rate the neutrality of M500 > Momentum you may draw an inference.

The P7 soundstage and detail is sufficiently good for me to pick out a recurring element in a track and just listen to that throughout

 

In terms of practicalities you can shake your head with P7 on and not worry about it falling off. The looks are killer. If my M500 do not sell will probably give them to my brother and keep them in the family. They are by no means bad at all, no siree. Just that we only have one set of ears...

 

Not really wanting to talk about sub-bass. Have demoed all the top tier cans and as a TH900 owner, perception is inevitably redefined. Listen to first track on The Dark Knight soundtrack, 3min 30 sec in, the song goes all quiet and you get sub-bass. There is only moderate response from this category headphone at best, so cannot single any as good or bad for sub-bass

Just out of curiosity, I'm listening to that segment of the Dark Knight soundtrack to test out the sub-bass. So I've never heard high-end headphones. But A/Bing with the Momentum, that bass-line has more quantity on the P7 and I think the quality of it is a bit better too. Goes quite deep. But I don't have a point of reference of how it could sound even better. But let me put it this way, it sounds, or better said, feels like I have a subwoofer strapped to my head :P

 

If you have access to this, see if you can get hold of 'Silent Sound Spread Spectrum' by 'A Guy Called Gerald'. Actually, if you have the P7, you can download it for free from the B&W website when you register the P7 (you get 3 months access to Society of Sound). It's 24bit/96KHz FLAC. It's basically a mix that lasts about 50 mins of very minimal electronic music, but there are some basslines in there that reach just as deep, if not deeper than the Dark Knight soundtrack. And I think the P7 renders it very very nicely. Better than the Momentum.

post #583 of 2530

The Clas -dB and Pico Power combo helps to tighten and focus the sound (really nicely bringing out the mids on P7 I may add, Ally Rhodes sounds just incredible) but still cannot call the sub-bass "a lot"

Sub-bass is also felt as well as heard. If you are comparing the Momentum and P7 to subwoofers then there was something wrong with the HC setup!

 

Whilst this is personal perception and we can agree to disagree, I have not heard any portable full size that I would consider as more than 5/10 at a push for sub-bass (to use an arbitrary rating). Mid and upper bass yes, but not sub

post #584 of 2530
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFC_SL View Post
 

The Clas -dB and Pico Power combo helps to tighten and focus the sound (really nicely bringing out the mids on P7 I may add, Ally Rhodes sounds just incredible) but still cannot call the sub-bass "a lot"

Sub-bass is also felt as well as heard. If you are comparing the Momentum and P7 to subwoofers then there was something wrong with the HC setup!

 

Whilst this is personal perception and we can agree to disagree, I have not heard any portable full size that I would consider as more than 5/10 at a push for sub-bass (to use an arbitrary rating). Mid and upper bass yes, but not sub

Well I was of course exaggerating about the subwoofer bit :) But I could certainly feel the low frequencies. I'm sure it's not on par with a high-end headphone such as the Fostex you mentioned, but those are more than 4 times as expensive so I'd hope those would perform better :) Either way, to me it seems like the P7 performs better than the Momentum in this respect.

post #585 of 2530

Oh yeah we both seem to agree P7 a step up in class and price

 

Only five years ago the Senn HD600 / 650 was retailing for £179.99. Good times...

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