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The $999 vs $99 Challenge Tour! - Page 14

post #196 of 524
I think there will be a better idea of a concensus as more people go through this tour than when it's still near the beginning
post #197 of 524
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawrster View Post

I think there will be a better idea of a concensus as more people go through this tour than when it's still near the beginning

 

 

Actually, SGS, Flysweep, and myself have all come to similar conclusions. Inks is the only exception.

post #198 of 524

I'll find out soon enough for myself :) However I would like to see some more go through this tour before I call it a consensus.

post #199 of 524
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawrster View Post
 

I'll find out soon enough for myself :) However I would like to see some more go through this tour before I call it a consensus.

 

Of course :)

 

That's why this tour list is so long.

post #200 of 524

Well, I have to say that I have feith in reviewers here. I think everyone is more experience and less opinionated than I am.

post #201 of 524

This is a very interesting tour indeed. Makes me proud to be an owner of the UERMs. Thanks to everyone for their impressions/reviews/comparisons so far!

:beerchug:

 

 

post #202 of 524

For some people that will hear these two earphones, despite our best efforts, will have a - what I call - "Expensive earphone investment protection bias." :)

 

If the modified TF10 sounds 95% of the UERM, that could be a huge problem for some people that have spent incredible amounts on flagship gear. Like me. 

 

Trying hard to remain unbias as much as possible. 

post #203 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundFreaq View Post
 

For some people that will hear these two earphones, despite our best efforts, will have a - what I call - "Expensive earphone investment protection bias." :)

 

If the modified TF10 sounds 95% of the UERM, that could be a huge problem for some people that have spent incredible amounts on flagship gear. Like me. 

 

Trying hard to remain unbias as much as possible. 

While it's true many people on head-fi are elitist equipment snobs I have yet to see that influence in the handful of evaluations posted to date.

post #204 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviltooth View Post

While it's true many people on head-fi are elitist equipment snobs I have yet to see that influence in the handful of evaluations posted to date.

I don't really think that's exactly what he meant, but the problem with influence in that sense is how would you know?
Edited by vwinter - 9/6/13 at 11:05pm
post #205 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post


I don't really think that's exactly what he meant, but the problem with influence in that sense is how would you know?

There's no way to know exactly what's going on in someone's head.  It can be argued that some people aren't even aware of their own biases.  With a tour like this we're getting multiple viewpoints and the truth is probably close to where they overlap.  You hope for a consensus even if it's ambiguous.

 

Apologies for the tangent.

post #206 of 524
 
Originally Posted by Deviltooth View Post
 

There's no way to know exactly what's going on in someone's head.  It can be argued that some people aren't even aware of their own biases.  With a tour like this we're getting multiple viewpoints and the truth is probably close to where they overlap.  You hope for a consensus even if it's ambiguous.

 

Apologies for the tangent.

  Biases are invisible and denied, inevitably there. You can probably average a consensus, but that is hardly anything noteworthy, just a group of guys who spend a lot of time here. 

 

Originally Posted by SoundFreaq View Post
 

For some people that will hear these two earphones, despite our best efforts, will have a - what I call - "Expensive earphone investment protection bias." :)

 

If the modified TF10 sounds 95% of the UERM, that could be a huge problem for some people that have spent incredible amounts on flagship gear. Like me. 

 

Trying hard to remain unbias as much as possible. 

  In this case, not only that, but the relation of Rin being involved causes a bias [though he doesn't care much for the UERM nor TFRM], my review certainly caused a bias too to those who read it,etc.

 

Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

 

Actually, SGS, Flysweep, and myself have all come to similar conclusions. Inks is the only exception.

We all agree that UERM>TFRM which is the conclusion, the degree isn't as clear cut.  Personally I easily foresaw you giving TFRM the lowest closeness rating yet, the other two surprised me not in that the TFRM was rating like it was, but the like for the UERM. We all have different references and ways of rating things, there just isn't going to be a clear consensus. UERM to me lacks a good amount of subbass and is peaky in the treble, with a mildly artificial way of seeming more detailed that it is, the TFRM is more honest with a similar signature, but sounds more dull due to it's conservative nature. D. Those slight differences in the FR make all the difference in how the two are being perceived and rated, not some invisible factor, not entirely price bias, these aren't nearly as close as damped RE400 vs RE600, now that is a LOT trickier....


Edited by Inks - 9/7/13 at 1:32am
post #207 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deviltooth View Post

There's no way to know exactly what's going on in someone's head.  It can be argued that some people aren't even aware of their own biases.  With a tour like this we're getting multiple viewpoints and the truth is probably close to where they overlap.  You hope for a consensus even if it's ambiguous.

Apologies for the tangent.

I edited that out of my post actually lol. It opens up a whole different can of worms I wasn't keen on exploring.



Lol at the Rin bias. Forget price tag, there's an aura.
post #208 of 524
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post
 

 

 

We all agree that UERM>TFRM which is the conclusion, the degree isn't as clear cut.  Personally I easily foresaw you giving TFRM the lowest closeness rating yet, the other two surprised me not in that the TFRM was rating like it was, but the like for the UERM. We all have different references and ways of rating things, there just isn't going to be a clear consensus. UERM to me lacks a good amount of subbass and is peaky in the treble, with a mildly artificial way of seeming more detailed that it is, the TFRM is more honest with a similar signature, but sounds more dull due to it's conservative nature. D. Those slight differences in the FR make all the difference in how the two are being perceived and rated, not some invisible factor, not entirely price bias, these aren't nearly as close as damped RE400 vs RE600, now that is a LOT trickier....

 

 

 

 

 

Flysweep

 

 

 

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlySweep View Post
 

 

 

 

I've got to credit Rin for the very admirable job he did with the tuning.  It certainly captures the 'essence' of the UERM sound.  The signatures are remarkably similar.. a feat in itself.  I don't think the TFRM is quite there in terms of speed, dynamics, soundstage, instrument separation, and resolving ability.. but I've got to do more listening & attain the proper fit before properly evaluating.  I will say this, if I could get the TF.10 reshelled, with Rin's TFRM signature.. I'd do it in a heartbeat.  Technicalities and all that aside, I totally love the sound.

 

More impression to come this weekend..

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

 

 

Shotgunshane

 

 

 

 

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post



The modded TF10 is a pretty good/close approximation; but to me, is clearly inferior to the UERM, especially in the midrange and with vocals. At the end of the day, neither is a signature I'd choose to own for music enjoyment but can appreciate the technical performance offered. Perhaps if the UERM had a more natural brassiness to the treble, with the treble peak tamed a bit and a little more sub bass rumble, it would be more appealing to me.
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post
 

 

As to the ratings, I'd say maybe a 6.5 for how close they sound to each other.

 

It's really too subjective for me to say how much more the UERM is worth over the modded TF10 but I can say I greatly prefer the UERM. It sounds much better and I certainly prefer the form factor of the UERM over the TF10, if for nothing but pure aesthetics and for being less noticeable. The responsible part of me says no TOTL is worth its price, yet I've bought several TOTL iems and have enjoyed them immensely over much cheaper models. Then again I love my $35 Soundmagic e10 and it gets plenty of ear time too.  So all that beating around the bush, I say if the UERM sound pleases you, its worth it.

 

 

 

 

 


 

 

Eke2k6

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post
 

I've been listening intensely for the last 3 hours or so, and I think I'm ready to give impressions:

 

First, to stick to the rating scale, If the UERM is a 10, the TFRM gets a 5.5 from me, solely for how closely Rin managed to get its signature to match the UERM. I had a strong distaste for the TF10 when I owned it, so kudos to him for managing to transform it like this.

 

 

 

 

 

2) I hear greater detail from the UERM, which I may from greater speed and resolution. This is evident in the strums of the guitar in Constant Knot, where the UERM resolves each individual string better. Furthermore, cymbals on the UERM are more resolved (Morning Song). Straying from the test tracks, I was listening to Stubborn Love, also by The Lumineers, and I found it resolving background vocals that I'd never heard before, even through Etymotic iems. The TFRM didn't do this.

 

3) This is the biggest, most stark difference

 

The soundstage. Here's a diagram of how I perceive how the two present the soundscape:

 

 

 

You'll notice that the biggest difference comes in soundstage height. The UERM's soundstage is much taller than that of the TFRM, making the presentation so much more natural. In comparison, the TFRM sounds like two tubes sticking out of your ears. I have my theories on this phenomenon, based on my experiences with the GR07, ASG-1&2, 334, and other customs-turned-universal, that a lot of an iem's soundstage capabilities come from the dimensions of the housing. 


I can't stress enough how much of a difference the UERM's soundstage height makes to the overall presentation. It sounds far more natural than that of the TFRM.

 

 

As for value, I'd say I'd comfortably pay at least 3x the TF10's price to get the UERM, given audio's quacky diminishing returns.

 

 

 

 

 

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhon193d4b7tlz--ABSdEzAYxD3S4K6dtPFtF6UveatInrfZ96xQ

 

post #209 of 524
Thread Starter 

The package has landed a vwinter's place.

post #210 of 524
biggrin.gif
I'm giving the UERM demo a quick listen first and I almost hate to use this word but I have no better technical explanation at the moment: the UERM is incredibly musical. I have a stupid grin across my face right now.
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