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The $999 vs $99 Challenge Tour! - Page 2

post #16 of 524

This is will be interesting. I suspect with Rin's mods, the two IEMs will probably sound rather close to each other. The fact is, the BA type drivers really aren't that different from each other (and they are not that many to begin with). I know some of you IEMs guys can practically pick out the specific driver types from listening despite differences in crossovers or shell design.

 

Out of curiosity, I would like to see Rin provide us with CSDs and non-linear distortion measurements. The STEPS (part of the ARTA package he uses) should be able to provide the non-linear distortion measurements.

 

@eke2k6: since you have included a value proposition score (including a multiplier), don't you think it's more reasonable to say the TF10 is $259.00 (current standard Amazon price), or at least use the discounted price of the UERM which everyone I personally know got it at.

 

Also pertaining to value, aren't we comparing apples to oranges because the UERM is a custom? Some people may see a stronger value proposition because it is a custom piece. Other less so because they don't care about that aspect. How this variable personal aspect is handled needs to be established.


Edited by purrin - 7/17/13 at 12:19pm
post #17 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by vwinter View Post


Aaaaand my initial reaction:

al-bundy-kelly-boyfriend-slam-into-door-animated-gif.gif

 

rofl!!

post #18 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

 

@eke2k6: since you have included a value proposition score (including a multiplier), don't you think it's more reasonable to say the TF10 is $259.00 (current standard Amazon price), or at least use the discounted price of the UERM which everyone I personally know got it at.

 

 

Fair points. In fact, the TF10, for a long time, retailed for $300+. However, aside from the $99 Black Friday price, people have easily been able to get the TF10 for ~$150 throughout the year for a few years now.

As for the discounted price of the UERM, that's only under special circumstances (during meets, for instance, where UE offer said discount and free ear impressions). BUT, ordinary people will have to pay retail price + cost of ear impressions + shipping (possibly more if re-fits are necessary). BUT that's only in the USA. As james444 noted, the UERM is considerably more expensive in Europe (£858.00 / €960.96 / ~$1,250 USD in the UK). My own customs (Westone ES3X) retail for $850 in the USA, but cost a lot more this side of the pond (add to that shipping and ear impressions costs)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

 

Also pertaining to value, aren't we comparing apples to oranges because the UERM is a custom? Some people may see a stronger value proposition because it is a custom piece. Other less so because they don't care about that aspect. How this variable personal aspect is handled needs to be established.

 

 

Bear in mind these days we have several customs that retail for (considerably) less, i.e. yes, although a custom piece will raise the cost of the item due to the fact it's not mass-produced, there are several (much) cheaper options to be found these days — obviously sonically one would have to decide whether these (much) cheaper customs meet our SQ requirements.


Edited by music_4321 - 7/17/13 at 1:08pm
post #19 of 524
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

 

 

@eke2k6: since you have included a value proposition score (including a multiplier), don't you think it's more reasonable to say the TF10 is $259.00 (current standard Amazon price), or at least use the discounted price of the UERM which everyone I personally know got it at.

 

Also pertaining to value, aren't we comparing apples to oranges because the UERM is a custom? Some people may see a stronger value proposition because it is a custom piece. Other less so because they don't care about that aspect. How this variable personal aspect is handled needs to be established.

 

I somewhat agree, but the TF10 only recently skyrocketed to that price. For the last few years they're been available for well under $200, dipping below $100 on Black Friday. It's only since being completely discontinued has the price gone up, thanks to the lack of availability.

 

We're only looking for something general in terms of sound. For instance, my long time beloved GR07 sounds like it should be in the $400 range, given the iems that reside there. It's not a measure of the product's value, but the value of the sound. For example, how much more would you be willing to pay for the UERM if the TFRM sounds really close? $100? $200? $0?

post #20 of 524

Given the fact that I was actually charged €1139 for my UERM from Germany, which roughly translates into $1500, I don't feel bad at all about calling it a $999 vs $99 challenge. wink.gif

post #21 of 524

^   Oh, but a 'German-made' UERM has got to be better!

post #22 of 524

Are the drivers Sonion from Denmark? Close enough.

post #23 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

Given the fact that I was actually charged €1139 for my UERM from Germany, which roughly translates into $1500, I don't feel bad at all about calling it a $999 vs $99 challenge. wink.gif

 

Perhaps the cost (in terms of labor hours and a few small crossover parts, wires, cables, tools, including shipping from Digikey / Mouser) should be indicated since we are obviously not talking about anything near a stock TF10.

post #24 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

Perhaps the cost (in terms of labor hours and a few small crossover parts, wires, cables, tools, including shipping from Digikey / Mouser) should be indicated since we are obviously not talking about anything near a stock TF10.

 

Depends on how you look at it.

 

If you want to know Rin's R&D expense to cope with this challenge and meet a predefined tuning target, then it's an interesting question that should probably be asked in his blog.

 

But if you look at the result, then it's a re-tuned TF10 with modded small parts, something that presumably could be produced without noteworthy extra cost by just changing the original TF10's tuning procedure.

post #25 of 524

I don't think Rin's R&D expense should be included in this figure. However, I am curious to understand if this is a trivial mod (i.e., any other Head-Fier could perform it if they had sufficient gumption) as you have implied or something more involving. Rin's site says "The IEM has been extensively modified from its crossover network scheme to its acoustic damping characteristics, so that the consequential tonality closely resembles the sound of UERM. As the rear part of the housing has been cracked open and completely ripped apart"

 

So obviously, it doesn't sound like going to a hobby store and cutting pieces of foam with scissors to stick on something - well at least the acoustic resistance piece in front seems simple enough. However, changing the crossover network at least requires fine soldering skills which most on HF will not be able to do. I can't really say as it's not entirely clear what the modifications entail. Can anyone tell us?


Edited by purrin - 7/17/13 at 4:24pm
post #26 of 524
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

I don't think Rin's R&D expense should be included in this figure. However, I am curious to understand if this is a trivial mod (i.e., any other Head-Fier could perform it if they had sufficient gumption) as you have implied or something more involving. Rin's site says "The IEM has been extensively modified from its crossover network scheme to its acoustic damping characteristics, so that the consequential tonality closely resembles the sound of UERM. As the rear part of the housing has been cracked open and completely ripped apart"

 

So obviously, it doesn't sound like going to a hobby store and cutting pieces of foam with scissors to stick on something - well at least the acoustic resistance piece in front seems simple enough. However, changing the crossover network at least requires fine soldering skills which most on HF will not be able to do. I can't really say as it's not entirely clear what the modifications entail. Can anyone tell us?

 

I don't think he was saying that it's something that every head-fi'er should (or could) take on. He said that it could be done in place of whatever UE was doing with the TF10 in the first place.

post #27 of 524
Neat comparison.

We're all clear that any implication that the UERM is a retuned triple-fi is completely, totally wrong (different drivers, as was established on changstar), right?

That doesn't mean they can't sound similar with enough modding, of course.
Edited by Kunlun - 7/17/13 at 5:06pm
post #28 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

Neat comparison.

We're all clear that any implication that the UERM is a retuned triple-fi is completely, totally wrong (different drivers, as was established on changstar), right?

Only those lucky few that are literate and know how to click a mouse button.

Which unfortunately means that I have no idea what you're on about. frown.gif
post #29 of 524

Lovely thread.

 

We're all clear that any implication that james444's UERM was actually made in Germany is completely, totally wrong (different country, the USA, to be precise, as established by…), right?

 

That doesn't mean they (Germany & the US) can't be friends again, with enough goodwill, of course.

post #30 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by eke2k6 View Post

 

I don't think he was saying that it's something that every head-fi'er should (or could) take on. He said that it could be done in place of whatever UE was doing with the TF10 in the first place.

 

Ahh, I see. That would be cool if UE could release a tweaked low-cost version of the UERM. I doubt it would sell well though. I don't think the UERM's signature (I own one and I like it for certain reasons) would be desirable for most neophytes.

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