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post #136 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

I'd like to add that if I wear the UERM's very loosely, with the tops of the housings practically falling out of my ears but the bottom portion pushed in, I can wear them comfortably for much, much longer.  The signature is definitely growing on me, I just wish that upper peak was slightly tamed.


Hi Shane, I'm wondering if maybe the hot treble on the UERM universal version would have anything to do with fit issues. I recently received my custom UERM and although I agree the treble is energetic I wouldn't call it metallic and sibilance isn't an issue with me. Mind you, I'm known for liking some energy in my top end so maybe my tolerance for treble spikes is better then yours. In your opinion, do you think the universal UERM is overly touchy with proper fit? Everything else you've said about the UERM I pretty much agree with. It would have been nice to have a touch more rumble in the low end but oh well.

post #137 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post

Hi Shane, I'm wondering if maybe the hot treble on the UERM universal version would have anything to do with fit issues. I recently received my custom UERM and although I agree the treble is energetic I wouldn't call it metallic and sibilance isn't an issue with me. Mind you, I'm known for liking some energy in my top end so maybe my tolerance for treble spikes is better then yours.

 

I think we're both partially deaf more tolerant when it comes to treble spikes. biggrin.gif

 

Wouldn't call the UERM's treble metallic and sibilant either, but agree that it doesn't have the brassiness of something like the K3003 (... though brassiness in itself is a metallic timbre, which undermines the original critique somewhat wink.gif).

post #138 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

I think we're both partially deaf more tolerant when it comes to treble spikes. biggrin.gif


Wouldn't call the UERM's treble metallic and sibilant either, but agree that it doesn't have the brassiness of something like the K3003 (... though brassiness in itself is a metallic timbre, which undermines the original 
critique
 somewhat 
wink.gif
).

I keep seeing brassiness mentioned but I'm not sure what it means. Does the K3003 have less treble and/or better timbre?
post #139 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

I did get to listen to demo versions of the JH5 and JH13 FP a few months ago.  I've never heard the older non-FP JH13 though.  All I know is that the demo of the JH13 FP I heard was the clearest, cleanest sounding IEM I've ever heard.  

 

Going from memory, I'd say the JH13 has a good bit more sub bass than the UERM and I remember the treble not being as hot as the UERM. I'd say the UERM, as a result, is airier too. That's about all I can say as I only heard it for maybe 20 minutes. The JH5 was pretty awesome too; I wouldn't mind owning one of those too! But I can only get one, so I placed my order for the JH13 today.

 

  Thanks for your reply. Well, I can see you certainly enjoyed those JH13s (highlighted text).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

I think we're both partially deaf more tolerant when it comes to treble spikes. biggrin.gif

 

Wouldn't call the UERM's treble metallic and sibilant either, but agree that it doesn't have the brassiness of something like the K3003 (... though brassiness in itself is a metallic timbre, which undermines the original critique somewhat wink.gif).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

I keep seeing brassiness mentioned but I'm not sure what it means. Does the K3003 have less treble and/or better timbre?

 

Can we please not mention the K3003 Total Musical Turd in this thread? Makes me feel a little too insecure.

post #140 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

I keep seeing brassiness mentioned but I'm not sure what it means. Does the K3003 have less treble and/or better timbre?

 

Think of the sustained, shimmering sound of a ride cymbal being struck. Very few IEMs are able to portray that similar to how I hear the real thing in a live concert. The K3003 are probably the best of all IEMs I've heard in that regard. I'd say it's a combination of treble response, resolution and decay.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

Can we please not mention the K3003 Total Musical Turd in this thread? Makes me feel a little too insecure.

 

Edit: Uh-oh, too late!


Edited by james444 - 8/29/13 at 11:54pm
post #141 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

Think of the sustained, shimmering sound of a ride cymbal being struck. Very few IEMs are able to portray that similar to how I hear the real thing in a live concert. The K3003 are probably the best of all IEMs I've heard in that regard. I'd say it's a combination of treble response, resolution and decay.

Thanks that definitely makes sense. So basically the opposite of the IE800 lol. Despite all rationality my interest in the K3003 seems to increase by the day.
post #142 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

 

Think of the sustained, shimmering sound of a ride cymbal being struck. Very few IEMs are able to portray that similar to how I hear the real thing in a live concert. The K3003 are probably the best of all IEMs I've heard in that regard. I'd say it's a combination of treble response, resolution and decay.

 

 

Edit: Uh-oh, too late!

Brassiness or brassy sound in itself is not really a proper term for that, brassy has more to do with describing a sound that is similar to fundamental regions of brass instruments, basically midhighs and lower treble. Now the described resulting sound would be made when the IEM has a fairly even frequency response and extension. Resolution is also not a working factor rather than a result, can't really be placed with decay and frequency response. 

 

UERM does go down to 20hz, but it's basically falling apart at that point, the IEM simply lacks bass extension, then again the bass driver isn't really of big mass neither is it vented. UERM was definitely uneven to me in the treble, like a TWFK, so far I'm relating more to shotgunshane's impressions more, though I found the UERM to not be as good to these ears.


Edited by Inks - 8/30/13 at 3:45am
post #143 of 524
Brassy is just a term related to tonality I use. Having lived next to a heavy metal drummer for 8+ years, I've learned that tone quite well! And the k3003 (and ck10 to a lessor extent) capture that tone better than other iems I've heard.

Metallic probably isn't the the best descriptor. When I've used that, I mean a more steely sound or unnatural tone.

@DF- the universal housings of the UERM really only allow for one kind of fit, it just takes me several extra seconds to get it there. The isolation is really great. I don't think it's a fit problem, I'm just probably more sensitive to where this particular peak is located but I'll try it with the loose fit I described earlier for a few hours before mailing off.
post #144 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

Resolution is also not a working factor rather than a result, can't really be placed with decay and frequency response. 

 

The difference being that you're using these terms in a technical context and my post was from a listener's perceptional point of view. As a listener, treble response, resolution and decay definitely present themselves as separate entities.

 

From my listening experience with a great number of IEMs, the ride cymbal seem to be one of the most challenging instruments to render, or at least one where the difference between decent and excellent phones in that regard becomes pretty obvious.

post #145 of 524
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

 

The difference being that you're using these terms in a technical context and my post was from a listener's perceptional point of view. As a listener, treble response, resolution and decay definitely present themselves as separate entities.

 

From my listening experience with a great number of IEMs, the ride cymbal seem to be one of the most challenging instruments to render, or at least one where the difference between decent and excellent phones in that regard becomes pretty obvious.

Well from a listener's point of view, perceived high resolution is an attribute resulted by a mechanism, it is not a specific mechanism itself itself like FR or time-domain. High-Resolution is basically another term for highly-detailed, nothing more, having high detail is the result of FR, time-domain and distortion mechanisms. 

post #146 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

Well from a listener's point of view, perceived high resolution is an attribute resulted by a mechanism, it is not a specific mechanism itself itself like FR or time-domain. High-Resolution is basically another term for highly-detailed, nothing more, having high detail is the result of FR, time-domain and distortion mechanisms. 

 

There, james444. Learn to get your bleeding terminology right next time! Hope you've learned something today.

post #147 of 524
Well even the loose fit hurts my ears quickly. I think I know why these are painful to me. Check out how fat the nozzle is right before the stem for the tip:

post #148 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

Well even the loose fit hurts my ears quickly. I think I know why these are painful to me. Check out how fat the nozzle is right before the stem for the tip:

 

That's unfortunate, as I have no problems whatsoever with that design and find these even more comfortable than my customs.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

There, james444. Learn to get your bleeding terminology right next time! Hope you've learned something today.

 

Lol, I'm not opposed to learning new things. wink.gif However, I'd love to see the formula that takes frequency response, time-domain and distortion (and while we're at it, potential masking effect by other frequencies) into consideration and shows without ambiguity why the K3003 render ride cymbals so detailed and lifelike.

 

Even if it exists, it's probably too complex and inefficient to be used for casual conversation, thus I reserve the right to chose the easier alternative and just describe them the way I did. Granted, there's a lot of ambiguity in colloquial language, but at least gnarlsagan and shotgunshane seem to have got what I meant.

post #149 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

That's unfortunate, as I have no problems whatsoever with that design and find these even more comfortable than my customs.

Other than that area being perhaps to wide, it really is a nice design for a custom come universal shell. I wonder why more custom demos aren't made with this approach?
post #150 of 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

Lol, I'm not opposed to learning new things. wink.gif However, I'd love to see the formula that takes frequency response, time-domain and distortion (and while we're at it, potential masking effect by other frequencies) into consideration and shows without ambiguity why the K3003 render ride cymbals so detailed and lifelike.

 

Even if it exists, it's probably too complex and inefficient to be used for casual conversation, thus I reserve the right to chose the easier alternative and just describe them the way I did. Granted, there's a lot of ambiguity in colloquial language, but at least gnarlsagan and shotgunshane seem to have got what I meant.

 

Good to know you're not opposed to learning new things, that's very commendable and I really respect you for that. So, I'll do my best to put you in touch with Inks or someone like him so you can expand your audio knowledge fairly quickly. You must understand that It annoys me to no end when I see people using words such as excellent, realistic, fabulous, real, soundstage, extraordinary, lifelike, timbre, convincing, tone, brassiness, etc., etc. — where are the bleeding measurements for these terms? Where?! I'd much rather see scientific / measurable terms such as turd, abomination, lol, a complete joke, kardboard, a piece of sh*t, coherency, etc. to accurately and scientifically describe gear.

Why, I must insist, don't we all get ourselves a pair of ER-4S and call it a day… and possibly embark on a new hobby like trainspotting?

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