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Pioneer SE-A1000 Appreciation Club ( Sennheiser HD 650 for $45?) - Page 40

post #586 of 909
I havent heard the 439. How does it compare to the 428? Im a fan of the 428's sound.

Sent from my SPH-L300 using Tapatalk 2
post #587 of 909

Balanced, quite neutral, good detail and clarity, comfortable like it's HD4*8 siblings with a hint of warmth not a giant killer in sound but pretty damn good imho for the usual going price of $60-80 sometimes cheaper due to rebates or Black Friday alike sales you guys have in the States. Pretty responsive to mods as well if you're willing to squeeze bit more.....but that is for another thread.

post #588 of 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

Hilarious? Why? Because some of the Superlux models reproduce a flatter and cleaner measurement response than these for the under $50. Otherwise please enlighten me. The whole point of hi-fidelity and what most audio companies out there chase after is producing a flat response as close as neutral and transparent to the original source as intended

 

 

No one said they didn't like these headphones because it is compared unfairly to endgame headphones because some of us here who have actually heard/owned these the latter mentioned headphones years before this thread was made but because it's people like the OP that create or make mis-leading assertions hyping a product that doesn't yield that performance claimed to be and then everyone jumping on the bandwagon, give or take sometime, they move on from the "new toy syndrome" until another product is hyped. 

 

Yeah you do get some brands/products that do up being worthy of the hype and end up staying here (Hifiman, Fischer Audio for example and Soundmagic for IEM's etc)....

 

Threads like this just cracks me up, like the little amount of experience some of you guys have with specific categorised headphones.

Speak for yourself, don't assume you know everything, especially what experience someone else might have that would lead them to a different conclusion than your own. By the way, did you know that a speaker, or a headphone, can sound like crap and measure flat? Can you prove your assertion that most companies actually aim for ruler-flat response? I'd say most companies sculpt the FR curve from model-to-model, in order to satisfy some target market, from typically bass-shy AKG all the way to the best-selling and bass-heavy Beats. Of course there are cans that tout neutrality and flat response but on the whole I think that is not the primary consideration.


Edited by imagic - 8/8/13 at 6:45am
post #589 of 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyris View Post

 

I was confused about that, too. I think there is an actual Superlux HD6000, but it's not available outside China yet. I Googled and came across a Head-Fi thread where something like that was mentioned. But bhazard will no doubt clue us in.

Takstar HD6000. About $90 from China.

 

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW-Takstar-T-S-HD6000-Dynamic-Stereo-Headphones-Earphones-Professional-Audio-Monitoring-Reservations/855182974.html

 

http://www.takstar.com/eng/view.asp?id=745

post #590 of 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Speak for yourself, don't assume you know everything, especially what experience someone else might have that would lead them to a different conclusion than your own. By the way, did you know that a speaker, or a headphone, can sound like crap and measure flat? Can you prove your assertion that most companies actually aim for ruler-flat response? I'd say most companies sculpt the FR curve from model-to-model, in order to satisfy some target market, from typically bass-shy AKG all the way to the best-selling and bass-heavy Beats. Of course there are cans that tout neutrality and flat response but on the whole I think that is not the primary consideration.

The majority of professional equipment always aims for flat response, as well as the best sounding speakers. I only have working knowledge of it based on speakers, but I'm sure it can be applied to headphone drivers as well.

 

A close to flat ruler response (100% flat response at all times can never be achieved), from a properly powered, low distortion woofer, along with a crossover tailored specifically to the woofer and tweeter to match phase, group delay, and time delay to the listening area from both components, along with the properly designed enclosure, will ALWAYS sound better than a curved response pre-eq.

 

In applying the above, with $480 of speaker parts (Pro audio woofer btw) per speaker, I created 2 channel towers that make Klipsch's P-39F $10,000 speaker sound like garbage next to it. My 1 12" woofer and compression driver/elliptical constant directivity waveguide per speaker can handle more power than the 3 used in it, has a wider sweet spot, better imaging, and they can dig lower in response. How is this possible? The titanium drivers and crossover implementation used in Klipsch speakers intentionally color the sound to be unnaturally bright. While some may think they prefer this sound, when driven at reference levels and above, it is ear piercing and fatiguing, where a flat response will sound effortless and pleasing. Material can be driven louder, with more clarity, and you won't be running to reach the remote knob. The brightness of the Klipsch speaker can be removed a bit by EQ, but it will not sound as good as if this were corrected prior through the crossover and different driver components. The rest of the $$ is all for the look.

 

Beats sell because people buy into looks, acceptance, and hype, not because they know what their music is supposed to sound like. The majority of the commercial Home theater and audio market mostly gets away with the "if it costs that much, it must be good" thinking most people have.

 

Based on your recent experience at Popalock's house, did the helicopter scene really pull you in and sound like you were there? Under 80hz nearly flat to 5hz and possibly lower had a lot to do with it. It just takes ungodly amounts of power and speakers to do so down there.


Edited by bhazard - 8/8/13 at 7:37am
post #591 of 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

The majority of professional equipment always aims for flat response, as well as the best sounding speakers. I only have working knowledge of it based on speakers, but I'm sure it can be applied to headphone drivers as well.

 

A close to flat ruler response (100% flat response at all times can never be achieved), from a properly powered, low distortion woofer, along with a crossover tailored specifically to the woofer and tweeter to match phase, group delay, and time delay to the listening area from both components, along with the properly designed enclosure, will ALWAYS sound better than a curved response pre-eq.

 

In applying the above, with $480 of speaker parts (Pro audio woofer btw) per speaker, I created 2 channel towers that make Klipsch's P-39F $10,000 speaker sound like garbage next to it. My 1 12" woofer and compression driver/elliptical constant directivity waveguide per speaker can handle more power than the 3 used in it, has a wider sweet spot, better imaging, and they can dig lower in response. How is this possible? The titanium drivers and crossover implementation used in Klipsch speakers intentionally color the sound to be unnaturally bright. While some may think they prefer this sound, when driven at reference levels and above, it is ear piercing and fatiguing, where a flat response will sound effortless and pleasing. Material can be driven louder, with more clarity, and you won't be running to reach the remote knob. The brightness of the Klipsch speaker can be removed a bit by EQ, but it will not sound as good as if this were corrected prior through the crossover and different driver components. The rest of the $$ is all for the look.

 

Beats sell because people buy into looks, acceptance, and hype, not because they know what their music is supposed to sound like. The majority of the commercial Home theater and audio market mostly gets away with the "if it costs that much, it must be good" thinking most people have.

 

Based on your recent experience at Popalock's house, did the helicopter scene really pull you in and sound like you were there? Under 80hz nearly flat to 5hz and possibly lower had a lot to do with it. It just takes ungodly amounts of power and speakers to do so down there.

You blew away Klipsh at 1/10 the price—that's awesome and I agree DIY offers tremendous value; I've built my own speakers as well, and I know from experience that well-designed DIY speakers kick ass, compared to many commercial offerings. That's why I said neutrality was not the goal of most manufacturers. If you want to restrict that claim to pro gear and high-end gear then of course I would agree, flat response is the goal. But what's sold in most stores is not pro gear.

Beats popularity just proves my point, but I would note that I do watch people compare headphones in stores, they buy Beats of their own free will.

I have my own subs that can render than scene in a totally visceral manner. Don't tell Popalock, but I think my subs sound better than his. biggrin.gifSince I ported mine, I can get away with four 12" drivers and 2,000 watts of power—especially given that my space is a bit smaller. Yes, I think flat bass response that digs deep is one of the most important aspects of true high fidelity, and one of the hardest to achieve.


Edited by imagic - 8/8/13 at 8:02am
post #592 of 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

Balanced, quite neutral, good detail and clarity, comfortable like it's HD4*8 siblings with a hint of warmth not a giant killer in sound but pretty damn good imho for the usual going price of $60-80 sometimes cheaper due to rebates or Black Friday alike sales you guys have in the States. Pretty responsive to mods as well if you're willing to squeeze bit more.....but that is for another thread.


You can get factory Refurbs here in the States for $40 or under. And they come Brand new!!! If anyone cares? Pretty good Sound for cheap. Do the Bass mod and it hits HARD like a Beyer..Another thread on that tho: Here's mine:

post #593 of 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalT View Post

Saying superlux outperform these is outright hilarious. They arent even close.

Sent from my SPH-L300 using Tapatalk 2

Until I see objective measurements or I actually hear for myself I'm going to say that's just an opinion as well. 


Edited by wafflezz - 8/8/13 at 4:14pm
post #594 of 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Speak for yourself, don't assume you know everything, especially what experience someone else might have that would lead them to a different conclusion than your own. By the way, did you know that a speaker, or a headphone, can sound like crap and measure flat? Can you prove your assertion that most companies actually aim for ruler-flat response? I'd say most companies sculpt the FR curve from model-to-model, in order to satisfy some target market, from typically bass-shy AKG all the way to the best-selling and bass-heavy Beats. Of course there are cans that tout neutrality and flat response but on the whole I think that is not the primary consideration.

When you're getting into the thousands or even hundreds on certain near-field monitors and such, a lot of companies out there aim for neutral/natural/transparent sound reproduction, ruling out all the other garbage and bs floating on the market. This doesn't mean that what one company is modelling with there speakers on a flat FR based measurement will sound good but subjective impressions over-rule this at the end of day as it varies with the listener. I was born into the speaker world, got deeper into the hobby by diy my own speakers or modding vintage boxes, as well listening to some of the big band high 4-5 digit priced speakers my distributor has to offer, not one of the said brands/manufacturers market/develop/market there speakers in some way of not aiming for a natural/neutral sound reproduction, heck there are even FR graphs on there brochures and flyers to demonstrate what the companies are after. 

 

In general talking sense, speakers are different to headphones in a lot of ways, headphones you can just chuck on and wear it and enjoy the sound, with speakers acoustic treatment to the room and position setup makes a night and day difference. You can have bad placement for million dollar speakers and have it sound bad.

 

I wouldn't say all AKG are bass shy, there monitoring range the K14x/24x/27x range have a fairly neutral response, of course every manufacturer has cheap headphones that don't sound neutral at all but this is mostly the case cheap headphones/iem's, companies can only do so much with products delivered to a specific audience group with cheap prices. Aside from a small amount of niche products for niche groups, you'd see most headphones from above $300 try and aim or market there headphones for neutrality in some sort of way.

 

Beat's and Monster don't belong in that sentence because the company itself cares nothing about sound reproduction, all they are after is bling, money and marketing. 


Edited by DefQon - 8/8/13 at 5:22pm
post #595 of 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflezz View Post

Until I see objective measurements or I actually hear for myself I'm going to say that's just an opinion as well. 

measurments don't speak the whole story - how tyll's pioneers measure, and how mine sound in reality are completely different monsters.

 

my main gripe with the superluxs is that while the detail in the trebble is better, everything i listen to is mid-centric, and they don't perform on the same level as shure, and pioneer equipment.

 

also people, remember the pioneer se-a1000 actually has trebble issues. it spikes -10db or so at 10khz, and rolls off SHARPLY at 16khz. The SE-A1000 are mid-monsters. They're actually not very bright at all.


Edited by CrystalT - 8/8/13 at 5:51pm
post #596 of 909

Indeed as you said you are a mid centric person, but that is just your subjectively speaking preference, not all of us are a mid centric person. The Superluxes don't have forward mids because they are reference monitor like headphones being as neutral as possible. Chances are if you are a mid-centric, basshead, treblehead then you won't really like flat sounding headphones such as the Paradox, Superlux or some of the TOTL stuff. Nothing with that.

 

As with treble issues with the SE-A1k, the best results I ever got out of it was through a Beyer A1 amp, it fixed nearly all the sound problems I had with my SE-A1k, if you don't have $700 for an A1, a Lehmann Black Cube (or it's clones) will do but I still found it uninvolving for my personal taste.

post #597 of 909

and yet i prefer the sound of shure srh840 which are reference monitors. :P

post #598 of 909

I definitely think SRH840 is mid centric, many headphones have "reference" moniker on them but it's debatable if they're neutral.

post #599 of 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

When you're getting into the thousands or even hundreds on certain near-field monitors and such, a lot of companies out there aim for neutral/natural/transparent sound reproduction, ruling out all the other garbage and bs floating on the market. This doesn't mean that what one company is modelling with there speakers on a flat FR based measurement will sound good but subjective impressions over-rule this at the end of day as it varies with the listener. I was born into the speaker world, got deeper into the hobby by diy my own speakers or modding vintage boxes, as well listening to some of the big band high 4-5 digit priced speakers my distributor has to offer, not one of the said brands/manufacturers market/develop/market there speakers in some way of not aiming for a natural/neutral sound reproduction, heck there are even FR graphs on there brochures and flyers to demonstrate what the companies are after. 

 

In general talking sense, speakers are different to headphones in a lot of ways, headphones you can just chuck on and wear it and enjoy the sound, with speakers acoustic treatment to the room and position setup makes a night and day difference. You can have bad placement for million dollar speakers and have it sound bad.

 

I wouldn't say all AKG are bass shy, there monitoring range the K14x/24x/27x range have a fairly neutral response, of course every manufacturer has cheap headphones that don't sound neutral at all but this is mostly the case cheap headphones/iem's, companies can only do so much with products delivered to a specific audience group with cheap prices. Aside from a small amount of niche products for niche groups, you'd see most headphones from above $300 try and aim or market there headphones for neutrality in some sort of way.

 

Beat's and Monster don't belong in that sentence because the company itself cares nothing about sound reproduction, all they are after is bling, money and marketing. 

Beats are not longer made by Monster and if you listen to the Monster Inspire headphones (in passive mode) you'd realize you are mistaken to dismiss the company so readily. I know I did, but after listening to the Inspire the company has my grudging respect. Beats are what they are, a running joke. I would 100% expect flat response to be an engineering goal and a marketing theme for most high-end gear.


Edited by imagic - 8/9/13 at 12:32pm
post #600 of 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrystalT View Post

and yet i prefer the sound of shure srh840 which are reference monitors. :P

 

 

 

in name only lol

 

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